HELP! 04 Explorer ECU/PCM/ECM problems

[rinnels69]

Hello and TIA to all.
I own a 04 X, XLT AWD (I have the little 4x4 selector but no 2WD option) with the 4.6L and auto tranny w/OD with about 65K miles.
I took it to the STEALERSHIP and had the diagnostics run--$85-- and they came up with the following codes:
P713, PO731, 732, 735, 750, 753, 755, 758, 775.

They said that the PCM was bad and needed to be replaced for ONLY $1400....$918 for the PCM and the rest for labor and to "inhale the program from my PCM and "exhale" it into the new one". SOOO, I went online and checked around and found a company called AutoTech Microsystems out of Jacksonville FL. (fordecu.com) The rep I spoke with said they can flash my PCM and it will be as good as new and that it wont affect the PATS (anti-theft) system. More or less, I send them my ECU/computer, they flash it, send it back and plug it back in and all is OK. COST: $279 including shipping back to me!!!

#1. OK, so has anyone heard of/used this company?
#2. And does this sound feasible...of course the service department said that I will need to have them reflash the computer...for about $300-500.

ANY help or info/advice would be GREATLY appreciated!

Thanks.....Mike.....USAF--17.5 years...2.5 to go!

 

[rwenzing]

Every one of those codes is transmission related. I'd bet my own money that there is nothing at all wrong with the PCM.

 

[glfredrick]

Find an independent local with a Snap On Modis and have him read the PCM while you watch. Also have him do the diagnostic on each trouble code so that you know what you are looking at, and what the recommended fix for each is.

The stealership is ripping you off.

With that being said, however, on anything 2001 or newer, a PCM flash is the FIRST line of defense in drivability issues. The dealers routinely flash the PCM with new software, THEN start diagnosis.

Yes, the computer is THAT important for drivability these days...

 

[rrgone]

Sounds like you have automatic 4X4 not AWD. I'm not even sure that AWD was an option with the Gen 3 XLTs. Wasn't that only available on the Mounties and maybe Limiteds?

Anyway, what problems are you having that you took it to the dealership to diagnose?

 

[rinnels69]

Thanks rrgone, glfredrick, and rwenzing!!!!

My wife said that it was "dying" when she tried to engage the cruise control. She would pull over, restart it and it would run again, but the OD OFF would flash, the battery light flashed and it seemed like "the clutch was slipping"...RPMs up but not not grabbing. Also, I noticed after reading some old posts about the TSB on reprogramming the tranny because of high preasure, that when I shift into reverse it seems "overly firm"

Can the dealer "flash" the ECU/PCM? Or is it more profitable to sell a new PCM/ECU

Hope this helps...I have already paid the place in FL for the reflash...cheaper than the stealership either way you look at it.

Again thanks for all the replies and TIA for future replies!!!

PS: rrgone...it is an auto 4x4

Thanks.....Mike.....USAF--17.5 years...2.5 to go!

 

[glfredrick]

The dealership OUGHT to be able to reflash (that's what they mean when they say they're going to put the old stuff in the new PCM) but they also like to sell parts -- it is a sure bet that new parts make things better -- but at a cost.

Most mechanics make a cut of the parts on an up-sell (customer wants a tune-up -- they sell a PCM) so they generally try to up-sell. It also generally insures that everything works after they are done.

General rule of thumb: MECHANICS change parts -- TECHNICIANS diagnose and cure problems.

You should be fine with the re-flash from the Florida outfit as long as they know what they are doing with their fuel curves, etc. If they're selling a lot of PCM's and not making hog wild promises, they're probably OK.

 

[rinnels69]

Thanks glfredrick!!! I'm going to pull the computer tomorrow and ship it Monday.

AutoTech Microsystems claims that if I send them the "computer", they can flash it without messing with the PATS system. I will let ya'll know how it goes and if it works.

I plan on disconnecting the NEG cable and making sure that I keep grounding myself as I remove the computer. It LOOKS like it should come out fairly easy...OOPS--just jinxed myself--a couple of wire harness connections and it looks like I'll need to "pry" up a couple of retainer "clips" on the inside so it will slide out. Wish me luck.

Thanks again.

Mike.....USAF--17.5 years...2.5 to go!

 

[93TwotoneXLT]

I am assuming that you went to the dealership with some sort of driveability problem relating to the transmission. It is possible that you have a PCM issue, but I also think you have a internal tranny issue. Solenoid shift packs are notorious for going south on 5R55E/N/S/W tranny's with anywhere from 40-75K on them. When they go bad, they will cause delayed P-R-D-R engagement along with harsh/delayed shifting from gear to gear. I have also seen these tranny's eat overdrive servo's as well causing many of the same issues that you have. In reference to the PCM, if while running the diagnostic the PCM was unable/unwilling to run a diagnostic of the tranny when commanded to do so and just spit out transmission codes then the PCM would be the first place to start in diagnosing the transmission. Your wife saying that the vehicle is dying when engaging the cruise control suggests that the dealer MAY be right. I highly doubt that this company in Jacksonville can simply "re-flash" your PCM and all will be right in you X's world. There are a number of TSB's relating to these tranny's and reprogramming the PCM due to a total lack of communication with the TCM is not one of them. By definition, a reprogramming of the PCM suggests that it is indeed functioning properly. If your PCM has an internal fault(bad soldering point, fried control board, etc) then it will not be reprogrammable. It is very possible(probable, actually) that the technician cleared the codes while diagnosing the vehicle to see if they would re-appear. If he did this, and the codes came back almost immediately, then the PCM would be the first place to start. I bet that the company in Jacksonville is actually in the business of selling "refurbished" PCM's to the customers that need them. As a note, it is diagnostic PROCEDURE for any Ford tech to reprogram the PCM if the code they pull is related to any updated program available from Ford that may help cure the driveability problem, this allows the tech to either confirm the repair or failure of a component. I am sorry for this being so long winded. I have an unfair advantage as I happen to have first hand knowledge of the diagnostic procedure for Ford vehicles. I am a service manager of a Lincoln-Mercury dealership that happens to have two very good Ford Master Techs at it's disposal. Good luck, I hope you get your X healthy soon

P.S. I agree that there are some pathetic Ford dealers whose service departments look to take advantage of customers that are out of warrenty simply to line their pockets. However, if the dealership that you took your X to turns out to be right maybe you should rethink your "stealership" branding. Factory parts are expensive and so are the tools and training of qualified techs. Good service departments know through dealing with these vehicles day in and day out what it takes to make them run right. Unfortunately, there are service departments out there that make it harder than it has to be to fix them right.

 

[rinnels69]

93TwotoneXLT,
Thanks and I agree with you TOTALLY on there being good and bad dealerships. I only use the "stealership" branding due to the fact that I asked the customer service rep that i dealt with "Are there ANY other routes/alternatives to resolve this problem" and his reply was "No". And the fact that there was NO mention of any TSB's that needed to be fixed/attended to, also makes me question his integrity. The minute that they informed me about the issues with my X, they should have, at a minimum, also informed me of the TSB's that were pending. What I got was:

"Sir, your computer is fried and it will cost $1400 to replace it; $918 for the part and the rest for labor and for us to hook it up to our computer, "inhale" the program from your unit and "exhale" it into the new unit."

Upon further questioning...(I sound like a lawyer )...the customer service rep told me it was the PCM that was bad and I asked him if it had thrown a 601 or 605 code, which I was told were the codes that would render the unit "non-programmable" and he listed the codes to me.

SOOO, like most people these days, I jumped on the WWW and checked out a few things and when someone tells you that they can fix your problem for $1000 cheaper....and yes, the old saying "If something sounds to good to be true, it probably is" is running through my head at this very moment.

SO, as a Service Manager, what "should happen" if I take my X back to them and they fix the PCM??? If that doesn't fix everything, such as the selinoids you described in your entry, what should I expect as a customer...ANY input or suggestions you have and are willing to give to me will be HIGHLY RESPECTED AND APPRECIATED!!!!

Thank You!!!

Mike.....USAF--17.5 years...2.5 to go!