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Help Diagnose my intermittant Missing Problem

Glacier991 said:
GREAT JOB Aaron! Thanks for the posts and pics. A very helpful thread. I'm as delighted for you as if it were my own! I'm going to suggest they rename the thread and post it Useful Threads... if others agree, urge them to do so. Excellent on upper engine rebuild!

Thanks Chris for all the advice and chats on AIM during this project. The thread title is indeed a bit different from the outcome! I have all of my steps for disassembly written down, and will be posting those shortly.
 



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V8BoatBuilder said:
(snip)
While the engine itself is running great, I think the exhaust is somewhat plugged/restricted. I need to get a backpressure gauge and find out for sure. The truck has LOTs of power down low, but when it really starts to move air around 2500rpm, power ceases to build. It is also VERY loud through the MAC intake, much louder then I remember it being.

Question: If there is a partial blockage of the cats or muffler, can this damage the motor?

The quick answer is YES, an exhaust restriction can damage the engine. If you don't have a good aftermarket temp gauge, this might be a good time to put one in. A plugged cayalytic converter will make the engine strain as the backpressure builds up. Evidence of this problem is usually an engine that runs hot (though it may not be readily evident with the factory "gauges", especially if the restriction is only partial).

Your description of the power drop-off does sound like there might be a problem there. I had an '85 Mustang GT in which the cat-con failed. Over the course of a few weeks, the power dropped off so much that it felt like a 4-banger under the hood. I remember how powerful the car felt when I picked it up after that warranty repair - like night and day.

Perhaps an off-road pipe is in order (for comparison testing and diagnostic purposes only, of course).
 






V8BB: How many miles are on your odometer? Check this out:

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Clean Air Act Warranty Provisions (42 U.S.C. S 7541 (C) (3) (B))

The federal Clean Air Act requires vehicle makers to provide two emissions-related warranties -- a production warranty and a performance warranty. The production warranty requires the vehicle maker to warrant that the vehicle is designed, built and equipped so that it conforms with emissions requirements at the time of sale. The performance warranty requires the vehicle maker to warrant that the vehicle will comply with applicable emissions requirements as tested under state vehicle emissions inspection programs for the warranty periods specified in the law (for model year 1995 and later vehicles, the warranty is 2 years/24,000 miles for all emissions-related parts and 8 years/80,000 miles for the catalytic converter, electronic emissions control unit and on-board diagnostic device). The performance warranty is conditioned on the vehicle being properly maintained and operated.

Like the Magnuson-Moss Act, vehicle manufacturers may not refuse warranty repairs under the Clean Air Acts performance and defect warranties merely because aftermarket parts have been installed on the vehicle. The only circumstance under which the vehicle manufacturer can void the emissions warranties is if an aftermarket part is responsible for (causes) the warranty claim.
 






Thanks for the replies. Unfortunatley, my truck has over 116,000 miles on it so it's out of any sort of warranty.

Also, bolting in an offroad pipe isn't too easy, as the V8 has 4 cats, two per bank. Two are just stright in/out affairs, and the others are curved!!

What's the likelyhood of all 4 going? It would seem that the front ones would die before the rears, and could be cut out, leaving just the rear converters.

I'm going to do a Vaccuum test on the truck, see if that gives any clues.

A new exhaust isn't out of the question - I would love to wait untill I have headers in my posetion before I shell out the dough for a full and complete dual exhaust.
 






The cat is a valid consideration. Have you ever had the sulfur smell? Also, I believe that you made previous mention of the vehicle seeming like it ran rich. The additional unburned fuel from a prolonged rich condition is essentially burned by the catalytic converters. Thus, the converter can go bad from the prolonged rich state. I've heard that you can use an external temperature meter to measure the heat elaborated by the cat; higher heat means it is overworking. Also diagnostic holes can be drilled and data obtained. A bad cat sometimes has a loose or rattling sound that can possibly be reproduced by firmly tapping on it with a rubber mallet.

Your best bet would be to have a muffler'cat. shop put it up on a lift and take a look.
 






Usually the front (first exposed to exhaust products of combustion) catalytic converters go bad.
 






Sorry to hear that it's past the warranty mileage; my luck tends to run that way, too.

Read the "Plugging" section below; it sounds as though you may have a restriction on the passenger side front catalyst due to two misfiring cylinders pumping unburned fuel into the exhaust. The "Diagnosis" section should help to determine if that is truly the problem.

One option is to try to find a used catalyst/Y-pipe and "gut" the converters. Muffler shops are usually hesitant to actually remove converters from a vehicle, but if you bring them the part, they should be able to do the welding and fitting. Someone around here might have that part cluttering up their garage. Of course, if Massachusetts uses the "sniff" test at vehicle inspections, running with no catalysts may pose a problem.






DIAGNOSIS
How do you know if a converter needs to be replaced? In many instances, the only clue that the converter may need to be replaced is an emissions failure or a performance complaint (lack of power, poor fuel economy, stalling after starting). In any event, the first thing you should do is visually inspect the converter and air pump plumbing for obvious problems such as rust, physical damage or leaky connections. Loose heat shields can create annoying rattles and vibrations. Severe discoloration on the converter shell may be an indication of overheating and possible internal damage, but you can’t always count on it.

In the case of a failed emissions test, higher than normal HC and CO tailpipe readings from a properly tuned engine, combined with higher than normal O2 readings and lower than normal CO2 readings, would tell you the converter isn’t doing much and probably needs to be replaced.

On 1996 and newer vehicles with OBDII, the on-board diagnostics will usually catch a bad converter. The OBDII system monitors converter efficiency with a second oxygen sensor mounted behind the converter. The system compares oxygen levels ahead of and behind the converter to see if there’s a difference. Downstream oxygen levels should be lower if the converter is working properly. Little or no change in the downstream O2 readings means nothing is happening inside the converter. This will usually cause the OBDII system to illuminate the malfunction indicator lamp (MIL) or the Check-Engine light and set a fault code. The generic OBDII code for low converter efficiency is P0420.

On pre-OBDII vehicles, converter efficiency can be checked with a four-gas exhaust analyzer – which is fine if you have one, but rules out this method if you don’t. One way to check converter performance is to read the tailpipe emission levels, then disable the air pump or aspirator and read the emission levels again. If the converter is working, HC and CO should both be lower, and CO2 should be higher. O2 should also be higher when the air pump is working. No change in HC, CO and CO2 readings would tell you the converter has reached the end of the road.

Another way to see if the converter is working is to look for an increase in temperature as the exhaust passes through it. This can be done by checking the exhaust temperature ahead and aft of the converter. We’ve heard of some people drilling small test ports into the pipes and inserting a temperature probe to measure exhaust temperatures. This technique works, but requires welding or plugging the holes afterwards. A faster and easier way to check exhaust temperature is to use a non-contact infrared thermometer. These devices are relatively inexpensive and easy to use. Just point the gun at the pipe and read the temperature.

With the engine at normal temperature and idling, the outlet temperature should be higher than the inlet temperature if the converter is functioning. On 1980 and older vehicles with two-way converters, the difference should be at least 100 F. But on 1981 and newer vehicles with three-way converters, the difference may only be 20 to 30 degrees. No difference in temperature indicates a defective converter or no air from the air pump. In this case, the air pump diverter valve and plumbing will need to be checked. An increase of 500 degrees or more indicates converter overheating because of a rich fuel condition (check the fuel system), misfiring spark plugs or compression leaks.

PLUGGING
Converting plugging is another common problem you’re apt to encounter. A plugged converter will create excessive backpressure in the exhaust, reducing performance and mileage. If a vehicle has only one converter and it becomes completely blocked, the engine will usually die after it has started and run for a minute or two. But on a dual-cat system, only one side will be blocked. The engine will still run but not very well because of the blockage on one side. In the case of a piggyback dual-cat setup, the front converter will usually be the one that fails first if unburned fuel or contaminants find their way into the exhaust system.

Converter failures of this type usually occur because of ignition misfire or a leaky exhaust valve that has been passing unburned fuel to enter the exhaust system. When the fuel hits the converter, it ignites, sending the converter’s operating temperature soaring. This breaks down and melts the honeycomb that supports the catalyst, creating a partial or complete blockage. Replacing a plugged converter will temporarily restore free breathing, but unless the underlying cause of the converter failure is also diagnosed and corrected, chances are the replacement converter will suffer the same fate.

If you suspect a plugged converter, check the engine’s intake manifold vacuum at idle. Most engines should have about 18 or more inches of vacuum at idle. A lower than normal reading is a classic symptom of excessive backpressure in the exhaust, especially if the reading continues to drop (indicating a backup of pressure).

Backpressure can be measured directly several ways. One is to measure it at the air pump check valve by removing the check valve and installing a pressure gauge. The check valve must connect to the exhaust system ahead of the converter, however if the plumbing hooks up at the converter, this technique won’t give you reliable results. Backpressure readings should generally be less than 1.5 psi (though some do allow as much as 2.75 pounds at idle). Rev the engine to 2000 rpm and note how much the reading increases. If it is higher than 3 psi – or keeps climbing – you’ve identified a restriction problem.

Backpressure can also be measured by removing the oxygen sensor from the exhaust manifold and installing an 18 mm adapter to hook up a pressure gauge. But this will only tell you whether there’s too much backpressure in the exhaust. It won’t tell you where.
 






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