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Help me choose a system

jtbuck92

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June 9, 2010
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City, State
Nashville, TN
Year, Model & Trim Level
'03 Limited 4.6L
I don't care how much you know, I'd like to know what you would like better:

1) 4 12"s
2) 2 18"s

Power will be about 2400 watts. I'd like to hear what subs you would recommend as well, depending on what setup you picked.
 



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personally I would say neither, IMO a 10" sub produces the best overall 'low" sound avail. The best set-up I've ever had in a car (the best I've ever heard to be honest) was 2 10" + a separate 12" mono single bypass enclosure .

This is just my opinion but I will say again the overall I think 10's just sound the best, but if you are in need of those deep, deep lows 1 - 12" is enough. Anything over a 10 has a hard time reproducing those punchy hard hitting (think reggae music) notes, that are too much for your door/deck speakers to handle.

I used to (long ago before the wife & children) had 3 10" bazooka tubes each with its own amp and adjusted to its own settings/frequencies and trust me I blew away many, many guys systems with 12" and even 18"'s just because yes they can hit the deep lows (most of which are unheard by the human ears) but just are unable to out perform a good 10" with the proper amp & settings. Then I built a custom box with 1 - 8", 2 - 10"'s and 1 - 12", that was a bit much and took months before i had each woofer/amp adjusted properly and in the end I liked my 3 10"s better.

I now have a shallow 10" enclosure although it wont shake windows of the store in parked in front of & you can't hear me from like 15 blacks away, but inside the truck sounds great! A true natural sound even turned up over 20 on the head-unit.
 






my opinion

id say 2 12's since thats my setup and im happy with it it hats damn hard in my truck i have 2 12 inch memphis power references on a 1000 watt autotek amp pushin 500 rms the speakers are in sealed truck boxs behind my third row seats and the ladies love how their seat vibrates to the sound of their favorite song i personally listen to rap r&b and blues and some jazz but mostly rap and r&b so u know the bass is hitn hard id say 2 but if ur a bass head like most ppl are who can afford to be 4 sounds better but be prepared to shatter that rear glass and the type id have to say either kicker cvrs or cvxs or memphis power reference or mojos thats my pick 18s are too too big
 






Yall must not know what an 18" feels like. I might be picking up 2 Fi BL 18"s soon, and doing a 14 cubic foot box, tuned to ~32 hz. I think that will bump ;)
 






If I could do it all over again, with unlimited green, I would do 2 10s and a twelve, all alpine.
 






it kind of depends on what you want really. if you're looking for low notes then go with the 2 18's. if you want faster hitting bass then go with the 4 12's. I would personally go with the 4 12's if i were you. right now i have 2 10" re audio sxx with 1000rms to each and they sound real good haha.
 






18's cannot move as fast as 12's do , so for super low bass they are okay, but over a spectrum of bass, quality with 18's will not be as good, as they can only be tuned to the lower frequencies thus leaving out all the rest,,
 






Check out the forums over at stevemeadedesigns.com, the information over there is 10x what you'll find in this site. Purely because that website is dedicated to car audio.

But the whole "18's don't move as fast as 12's" thing or "10's are better for rock and 12's are better for rap" is a load of crock.

A good quality subwoofer in a properly tuned box with a proper amp (notice I say proper, NOT high end) will sound good regardless. But here is what the math says:

4 12's: 452.4ish cubic inches of area
2 18's: 509ish cubic inches of area.

I'd go with the 2 18's because you're using a bunch of space in either case, might as well go with the subwoofer that will give you the most punch. Put some money into it and don't skimp on some stuff and do it RIGHT the first time, it'll sound good on rock/rap/classical, whatever you listen to.

I think there's even a thread on that site I linked you to that goes through car audio rumoes, and most of the them are the same type I mentioned.
 






from a theoretical view 18's and 12's can move at the same speed,but

and that is a big but,

the weight difference in a 12 and an 18's cones and coils do make the difference,,
so from a weight standpoint they cannot move as fast,,
not a myth or rumor, just physics,,
objects in motion tend to stay in motion, and changing directions takes more force with more weight,
 






I have 2 12's and an 8 in the center consel. i this the 12's hit great, but 4 of them is a lot. do you think you will be able to hear your highs over all that bass?
 






Just go to the website I listed... you'll find articles/threads that's talking about that.

I remember an article though that talked about the ratio of low end to high end sound, like how many watts would you need playing highs/mids for so many watts of subwoofer output, stuff like that.

True about "more force needed to change directions", but if we look at total area we'll see this:

4 12's = 452.39 cubic inches of cone area (assuming the subwoofer area true 12")
2 18's = 509 cubic inches of cone area(assuming the subwoofers are true 18")

that might as well be an equal amount. there is no way a human ear would be able to distinguish a difference of 50-60 cubic inches. that's about 1/2 the area of a 12" subwoofer, and for the work that's going to go into the system either way, might as well go with what'll get you moving the most air... either way, you'll still be pushing pretty damn close to the same amount of cone area, so i'd go with teh 18's to make things simple. i'm planning a build with 4 15" quality subwoofers which will sound better then the 12" CVR's I'm running now.
 






18's cannot move as fast as 12's do , so for super low bass they are okay, but over a spectrum of bass, quality with 18's will not be as good, as they can only be tuned to the lower frequencies thus leaving out all the rest,,

I disagree.

Check out the forums over at stevemeadedesigns.com, the information over there is 10x what you'll find in this site. Purely because that website is dedicated to car audio.

But the whole "18's don't move as fast as 12's" thing or "10's are better for rock and 12's are better for rap" is a load of crock.

A good quality subwoofer in a properly tuned box with a proper amp (notice I say proper, NOT high end) will sound good regardless. But here is what the math says:

4 12's: 452.4ish cubic inches of area
2 18's: 509ish cubic inches of area.

I'd go with the 2 18's because you're using a bunch of space in either case, might as well go with the subwoofer that will give you the most punch. Put some money into it and don't skimp on some stuff and do it RIGHT the first time, it'll sound good on rock/rap/classical, whatever you listen to.

I think there's even a thread on that site I linked you to that goes through car audio rumoes, and most of the them are the same type I mentioned.

Yep, the most cone area usually wins it for me.

from a theoretical view 18's and 12's can move at the same speed,but

and that is a big but,

the weight difference in a 12 and an 18's cones and coils do make the difference,,
so from a weight standpoint they cannot move as fast,,
not a myth or rumor, just physics,,
objects in motion tend to stay in motion, and changing directions takes more force with more weight,

More weight = higher moving mass which usually means the subs will play lower, which is what I want. They will move just as fast as the 12"s because they have twice the power going to them ;)
 






Thanks for the replies. I know most of the technical sides of it, I'm just curious what people would like to see. More of the aw factor.
 






Keep an eye on my posts, I'm using an 8" subwoofer as my home subwoofer, but I'm using a Bose like system.... putting PVC piping along the top of the wall like a train track lol
 






the truth about speakers (somebody needs to make a sticky for this... as these questions keep coming up, i'd write it if permitted)

firstly, ALL these woofers (Even 18's) will produce up to 500hz or higher before they cones break up into nodes (can't move fast enough to move as "one" and begin to ripple) obviously nobody wants their sub to go to 500 hz so this isn't even a consideration.

these are the important ones:
peak throw! how many MM of peak throw does it have? more is better (cone can swing further without bottoming out) remember that a 12" woofer will have to move further to move the same amount of air as an 18. if you want to compare, assume 1" or the speaker doesn't move (surround, mounting etc) and do pie for area.

SPL at 1watt! this tells you how loud it will play with one watt of power.. this is a universal figure which you can compare speakers. the louder it plays with 1 watt, the less power you will need to run the speaker. remember that in order to run a speaker 3db's louder, you have to double the input power. so a speaker with 93 DB at 1 watt would take 2 watts to play 96 db, 4 watts for 99db, 8 watts for 102db, 16w for 105db etc. a powerful speaker is worthless if it is horribly inefficient.

resonant frequency!! to me this is the most important factor, this factor determines how "deep" the speaker will produce sound.. whatever the resonant frequency is, the speakers output (in a sealed box) will decline at 12 db per octive from that point downward (an octive is a doubling, or half-ing of frequency, for instance, 20 hz to 40hz is one octive) so if you're speaker has a resonant frequency of 60hz, and you want it to produce bass at 30hz (or you're low pass filter is at 60hz), it's going to be a bad choice. the speakers usable response starts at the resonant frequency, and goes UP from there. a speaker in a ported box will drop off faster than 12db/octive below the resonant.



also keep these rules in mind:

every increase of 3 decibels requires DOUBLE the wattage.

doubling air displaced (twice as many speakers) will raise the SPL by 6 decibels.

it takes about a 10 decibel increase in sound to appear "twice as loud" to our ears.

some general things i'd look for in a woofer would be: big magnet, lots of throw, low resonant frequency. personally i like bigger woofers as it takes fewer of them to displace the same amount of air (they are more efficient)
also i'd consider using a home woofer for you're car, as most "car audio" woofers just have a higher resonant frequency (higher resonant frequency speakers play louder with the same wattage, at the expense of bass response) this is why some car audio systems play really loud, but have "one note" bass (their resonant frequency is at about the same point as the crossover frequency, so they only really play one pitch loud)
 






Thanks for the explanation. I know those things, but I'm sure not many others here do. I'm more than likely going with 18"s since I have a good deal on two. They get low.
 






my buddy just got sponsered by dc audio so he got me a deal on 2 18" level 4 xl's, i have them running on a single hifonics goliath, 2500 watts per sub and they are retarded, i metered 151.4, and the subs aren't fully worked in yet. Best subs i've owned so far, and ive had alot
 






I used to install professionally and compete, and IMHO, either is too much unless you are competing in DB drags. If you want to have that much low end, you would need MANY midbass/mid/high drivers to keep up with the "actual music" so you could hear it. In my competition setup, I had a single 12" in a small, sealed enclosure, with 6 1/2 midbass drivers, also in sealed enclosures, and a separate amp driving the tweeters. I had much more power going to the midbass drivers than the sub. Granted I was competing in sound Q, not DB drag, but it still stands to say that what you are talking about would sound horrible for day to day music listening, at least that's my take. FWIW, a friend of mine did 3 12's in a Camaro, and ended up taking them out after a few months because even turned down, the bass was overwhelming on a day to day basis. He had the money to change his mind, though. If you don't I would consider carefully before putting this much into your truck! Generally speaking, the quality of the subs will matter more than the number of them. Car audio is one of those things where you definitely get what you pay for. I've seen 2 10's outperform 4 12's, and sound better to boot. The enclosure design can also make or break your install, making expensive subs sound horrible if improperly designed and built, or making cheap subs sound decent if properly done. Just my 2 cents.
 






Ya I understand. I'm a basshead though, I love bass. The subs are Fi BL's. If you've competed, you've more than likely heard of those. Many might criticize me for this, but I only listen to rap when I drive. Don't ask me why, I just always have. Most rap is bass heavy and I love painful bass. I'm not a big SQ guy. I was going to go active once but kind of gave up on that. Mine will sound good enough for me. I love loads of bass. And don't worry, I'll have around 600 watts in highs and mids, which will be plenty IMO. I don't like a lot of screaming highs. I get it loud enough for me. I've beaten people with 2 15"s with my one 10". It's sooo much fun.
 



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Well guys I picked up my 2 18" Fi BL's this weekend. It's going to be loud!
 






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