HELP w/ changing 2003 XLT Rear Differential Fluid

[TFMoussa]

Hi guys, I'm trying to tackle the infamous whining sound out of the rear differential in these explorers. I've never changed differential fluid, but I've done a lot of reading and the concept seems pretty easy.

Now the trouble I'm running into is that all the info I'm finding is for the previous generation explorers. I have a 2003 XLT (non LSD), and it looks like the differential set up is entirely different. It's not very accessible w/ part of the frame running right in front of it.

Secondly, I can't seem to tell if there is really a cover on it or not. It looks like the side that should be the cover also has arms that attach the differential to the frame.

Does this mean that in order to take off the cover, I would have to take off the 2 screws which are attaching it to the frame? And if I do this and take off the cover, then should I be worried about my differential falling to the ground and instead place a jack underneath to hold it up?

I opened the fill plug yesterday just to ensure it was loose enough to open once the cover is off, and some overflow fluid came out. I think it has so much metal shaving that it looks like glitter = / Hopefully adding some Valvoline 85W-140 w/ some antislip will help keep it in good shape and quiet down the sound.

 

[cowboybrber]

I changed mine this weekend. There is a fill plug at the top of the diff. cover (1/2" drive ratchet) and there is a drain plug at the bottom (3/4" drve ratchet). Take fill plug out, take drain plug out, let it drain and refill. I used 75w140 Mobile 1.


Fyi I have an 02 xls.

 

[TFMoussa]

I got the 1/2" fill plug off. I don't have a 3/4" ratchet for the drain plug, but it shouldn't be hard to find one. The thing is, is that I'm trying to get the whole cover off because the differential has a slight leak so I was hoping to put a new layer RTV sealant on it to prevent future leaks.

Any suggestions?

 

[jrford]

imo i'd drain and fill and see what that does.

But don't hold your breath, as metal shavings = bad things. Since you don't have LSD that noise is more likely bearing noise. The rear whine you read about is related the the clutch packs in LSD which you don't have. . . thus bearings and/or Ring n Pinion. If true then it will have to come out and be rebuilt anyways. Doesn't make sense to seal it until you know for sure - imho

i don't have wifey's truck with me, but i think i remember the diff crossbeam is bolted to the diff cover (back side opposite the driveshaft). If it is you will have to jack the diff, unbolt, slowley lower it and hopefully get at it. I'd leave the half-shafts attached unless they prohibit the diff from dropping down far enough. Removing said half shaft very big job as both rear hubs have to be removed, and for an '03 might want to toss on new rear outer bearings while your at it.

 

[gijoecam]

I've never worked on one myself, but from the service manual it looks pretty straightforward... Remove the bolt from the noise isolator bushing, support it with a jack, remove the two anchor bolts that hold it to the frame, and drop it down.

But, if yours is making noise, it's really not going to be worth the effort to go through all that just to do it again soon thereafter when the diff is shot. You may as well take it all the way out (just a matter of marking and removing the driveshaft at that point) and have a shop rebuild it. They sell the kits, but setting up a ring and pinion takes some special tools and a fair amount of time. If there's gold dust in the gear lube, it's grinding itself to a pulp inside and it's on borrowed time.

 

[jrford]

gijoe is right on the money . . .just a point on the 3rd gen's and their IRS, you have two half shafts that have to come out in addition to the drive shaft, that means you gotta pull the rear outer hubs to get those out. . . royal PIA, then the diff will come out like gijoecam said.

Search on that TSB in the other tread TSB 05-23-3. I googled 'Ford TSB 05-23-3' and found some great reading.

the question i have after reading the TSBs and threads, is the Replacement of R&P really necessary? Some have said it usually salvageable . . tsb says replace, hum. Either way it will still need a rebuild kit, and its not DIY. Best left to the pros its kinda of like an art or learned trade. . .imho.

 

[TFMoussa]

Yeah, there's enough metal shavings in there that it looks like glitter. Well dang, that's a hassle...

Any idea how many miles it can go before it's completely done with? It's got 122k so far and it's really never given me any problems at all...no clanking or grinding noise, no slipping, etc...just a persistent whine at high speeds.

Anyone know of anywhere that can rebuild the differential for a "fair" price? I'm considering either selling it soon, but if I don't then it would be convenient to not have to worry about anything (i.e. the differential) giving out.

Sorry if I sound new to this stuff...this is the first Explorer I've owned and I haven't had too many opportunities to get my hands dirty with it

 

[gijoecam]

Oh, yeah, forgot to mention the halfshafts needing to come out... Sorry 'bout that...

I suspect the TSB recommendation of replacing the R&P is more of a CYA thing to save the tech time and labor. The wear may not be readily visible to the naked eye, so the tech would have to take it apart, rebuild it, reassemble it, and check the tooth pattern, only to find out that while the pinion bearing was bad, the teeth wore oddly, and then he would have to repeat the setup process for the new R&P. Seems like a simple way to make sure they only have to do the job once.

Now, that being said, as with any diff issues, if you catch the problem early enough, odds are it'll be salvageable. I know I had the same problem on my 97 F150 with the 8.8(also covered by that same TSB) and had them rebuild it under warranty... No problems for another 40,000 miles. The one on my current F-150 (also covered under the same TSB) has just recently begun making the noise while cruising. I plan to let the trans shop I use take care of it at the next trans service.

 

[cowboybrber]

Mine has 137500 miles and it whines but after the lube change this weekend it is substantially less noticeable.

 

[gijoecam]

Anyone know of anywhere that can rebuild the differential for a "fair" price? I'm considering either selling it soon, but if I don't then it would be convenient to not have to worry about anything (i.e. the differential) giving out.

The stealership bills it for around 6 hrs IIRC. You could probably have an independent shop do it for about 2/3 the price. I don't know of a specific shop, but prefer to avoid the chains myself. Ask around the mom-n-pop service centers and they can point you towards the good independent places. If you know anyone that races either ovals or drags, they will know good places too.

 

[jrford]

here is that other thread which sounds related http://www.explorerforum.com/forums/showthread.php?t=263171

How loud is it? My '96 heep has had a rear diff whine for like 100k now. . .mind you its solid cast iron. I can only hear it with the windows up and radio off and i sit in back and listen for it. . . .
I asked my trans guy on a regear which would be the same thing and it was $500 a diff, but note the 'kit' is about $150 or so (bearings, seals etc) no including the R&P another $100-$200.

lol - can we all try hitting post at the same time and see what happens . . . .

 

[cowboybrber]

But one other thing, even with the whine, when I changed the lube it was dirty but I didn't notice much metal in the lube at all.

 

[jrford]

Mine has 137500 miles and it whines but after the lube change this weekend it is substantially less noticeable.

for you coyboybrber, no shavings i'd take a wait and see if it get louder or worse (but it will with time how long, could be next month or next decade). . . .

 

[TFMoussa]

Just checked pricing at a local Ford dealership here just to see what they were running....$1400 for a rebuild, and $2300 for a new one. Amazing.

In regards to how loud it is: It's very quiet up until about 40 mph at which point any faster it's just a loud constant "hum" more than anything. Nothing terrible, but it gets to be annoying after a while. Especially if you have others in the car and you're having a conversation.

I guess for now I'll go ahead and do the lube change until I can find somewhere that charges reasonably (or I sell the car?).

Thanks for the help fellas! This is the best, fastest, most clear, and most helpful forum!!

 

[jrford]

One thing is you guys need to look for any play where the driveshaft and halfshafts go into the diff. Up/down/side/side anything like 1mm is bad they should be solid. Rotational is OK. Also leaks might be an indication of a bad bearing.

If the noise isn't too loud, one explanation i've heard through the years, i don't know if its true or not (wouldn't apply to solid axles). When they went to IRS/IFS they mounted the diffs directly to the frame. (With solid Axles is part of the Axle which is held by control arms) The frame mount allows the noise to travel directly to the frame and thus your ear while with the solid axle there is a lot more iron for the noise to travel through and it gets kinda lost. The noise has alway been there and has been the same, its just the noise/whine travels' better in the IRS.
Now that F150 problem blows that idea away.

The other thing i heard was the tooling that made the 8.8's (some not all) was getting kinda worn out and the gears where being set incorrectly out of the factory.
F150 problems sound related if this were true. . .

just some idea's . . .

 

[cowboybrber]

Probably be next decade for me ( I hope) My Ex is only my weekend driver. I have a company truck I drive during the week.

 

[cowboybrber]

Also, my whine isn't anywhere near that loud. It's actually difficult to hear even with the radio off, or maybe I'm just going deaf. Either way before I pay for a fix it's going to have to completely give out.

 

[jrford]

In regards to how loud it is: It's very quiet up until about 40 mph at which point any faster it's just a loud constant "hum" more than anything. Nothing terrible, but it gets to be annoying after a while. Especially if you have others in the car and you're having a conversation.

you might want to check on the rear bearings. . . .very common failure. .and they will also make a humming sound.

If the sound changes pitch in turns, safely rock the wheel back and forth - my guess would be the rear outer wheel bearings.

If the sound changes when you give it gas or let off in a straight line - pinion bearings. . .diff

you might want to check and see if they sell a 'crate reman' another idea would be to see if an '05 or up will fit and it might not have the same problem if it newer.

if it where me i wait and see if there is any play or leaks in the seals. . . till then turn the radio up . ..lol

 

[davebuck8]

2 Questions
Will the dealer sell just the Diff, or do they want to install it?
Will an 05 up up diff fit? I don't mind a used diff, but would rather not put in a problem child
Thanks
Dave

 

[my pos mounty]

The stealership would be most happy to sell you ANYTHING