HHO: Is it alchemy? Or will it improve gas mileage on a ’99 4.0 SOHC Explorer?

[dogfriend]

Okay, forget I ever mentioned it. But I do have a theory.

 

[gijoecam]

Okay, forget I ever mentioned it. But I do have a theory.

Do-tell, do-tell! I'm curious.

 

[dogfriend]

You are supposed to forget I ever mentioned it.

 

[SCB2525]

Is that somehow a problem? Seems to me they did the same thing on Crown Vics for years, and F-150s from 97-03/04 Heritage for sure (Not sure what they went to in '04).... It solved the problem, didn't it?

My point is they DIDN'T add that plastic until it became highly publicized that people were blowing up.

 

[seth247]

you pretty much have to pass a law to get the Big Three to do anything.

 

[aldive]

you pretty much have to pass a law to get the Big Three to do anything.

... except to go **** up.

 

[seth247]

Passed laws for that too.

Think they called em "CAFE standards".

 

[Hoppy]

Ok guys, Sorry to be a pest, but I just found out about this a week ago and did a bit of research on the subject. I have my 2000 Ex and a 2002 Olds Intrigue in which I have been conteplating on doing tests on with this system of making HHO.

I have not read through all 40 pages of the post, and nor will I tonight, but is there a much condensed version to look through?

I seriously want to do this add on to my vehicles, but am afraid of blowing the intake off my engines let alone burning my house down due to the explosiveness of Hydrogen and Oxygen.

Cheers,

Hoppy

 

[uh60james]

Any updates Josh?

 

[Josh]

No, I though in the towel because my explorer is no longer registered and I could not keep it from popping the controller I was using to attain a decent output. I'm not willing to risk putting on my F-250 diesel. Anything happens to that motor and Im screwed. Anybody want the tank? I feel kinda bad considering I defended it so heavily, but my truck is just to scarey to drive. The steering is loose and its not worth the money to make it write. I have even considered selling it.

 

[Cabrera]

What was your best city mileage?

 

[uh60james]

I hear ya, my 93's steering got pretty bad and I definitely did not feel safe driving it but it just wasnt worth fixing.

 

[Cabrera]

Here's a few questions for the HHO veterans:

A. Will my Scanguage 2 correctly read the increase in MPG using HHO?

B. Other than the:

1. generator,
2. bubbler,
3. hose,
4. Pulse Width Modulator
5. MAF enhancer,
6. wire,
7. fuses,
8. relays,
9. one way check valve,
10. fire arrester

What else would you recommend that I would need?

3. Are the O2 sensor extenders needed if I use a MAF enhancer?

 

[Cabrera]

I've gone throught the entire thread and I have gotten a lot of great info. I'm playing catchup here so I have yet more questions.

1. What is the best metal to use in the Hydrogen Generator?
   
2. How long can I expect it to last before replacing it?

I really appreciate any help that you guys can give.

 

[dvldoc]

Dear god, people are still pushing the HHO scam, Can one single person provide a single legitimate dyno chart, Certified emission test, Or data logger that shows less fuel is being use with the system on vs off? If you have to look through 30 pages of post or hours on the internet you have already answered your question.

If you cannot increase horsepower without using more fuel at the same engine load then you cannot increase fuel economy period!! Nobody can even show a 5hp gain with this junk, let alone 20hp to 30hp which still would not yield you the ridiculous claims of 25% to 30% better fuel economy.

When challenged to do a simple $40 to $60 dyno test, or even cheaper emissions test to show more complete and efficient combustion HHO'ers will always fail to provide any proof. All these threads end the same, just a bunch of I'm still working, tweaking, experimenting, ect, ect with my kit.

Here is a simple way to prove when less fuel is use, Data loggers are cheap, I'm amazed nobody has bothered to do it.

This is just a example nothing to do with a gas engine but just shows you how easy it is to prove fuel savings.

Data logger cost all of $400 to $200 bucks.

This is water injection on a diesel 1.9TDI VW

Off

On

See easy

Dyno's to show hp just as easy but not one real one exist for HHO, Find one if you can. Lots of empty headed techno babble with out a real test to prove anything.

Sorry the whole HHO scam gets under my skin. Feel free to provide the above mentioned documents that are not copied and pasted from a scammer sight.

 

[briwayjones]

Umm, why do you have to increase power to get better gas mileage? If less gas is being used because it's being replaced by Hydrogen than you'll get better gas mileage but not have more power. The trick is getting the system to properly respond to the addition of the Hydrogen and lean out the gas it puts in the engine.

 

[CDW6212R]

The posts above are very good, but the point isn't the power, it's about the fuel used while driving at speed. That is not measured on a dyno. Just like dyno information does not translate to actual acceleration times, it also doesn't reflect actual fuel used while driving. Let's not debate that, I know the dyno use for power is wrong, I'd bet a crap load of money that it also isn't exactly representative of fuel use either.

As Brian said, it's about driving and being able to lean the mixture due to the hydrogen introduced.

I agree though that the HHO seems to be no help at all. No one has shown adequate proof of improved economy. The problem seems to be that the energy required to create the tiny amount of hydrogen, it takes too much power from the alternator. The extra drag on the alternator seems to negate the fuel that the user is trying to take out of the engine.

I think any fuel savings is coming from leaning out the engine more than if the HHO wasn't installed. Meaning it's likely that if you lean the mixture as much as possible without the HHO system, the gains will be more than with the HHO. This is just my opinion though, hopefully people can prove that it does work. Regards,

 

[dogfriend]

I agree though that the HHO seems to be no help at all. No one has shown adequate proof of improved economy. The problem seems to be that the energy required to create the tiny amount of hydrogen, it takes too much power from the alternator. The extra drag on the alternator seems to negate the fuel that the user is trying to take out of the engine.

The second law of thermodynamics says no process will be 100% efficient, so you will not get as much energy in the form of Hydrogen as you take in electrical energy from the alternator. There is no free lunch, there are no perpetual motion machines.

I think any fuel savings is coming from leaning out the engine more than if the HHO wasn't installed. Meaning it's likely that if you lean the mixture as much as possible without the HHO system, the gains will be more than with the HHO. This is just my opinion though, hopefully people can prove that it does work. Regards,

This is my theory; the modifications are leaning out the mixture and the NOx emissions are increased as a result. The auto manufacturers used to do this with lean burn technology, but they cannot meet the current NOx standards running very lean mixtures.

 

[Cabrera]

The second law of thermodynamics says no process will be 100% efficient, so you will not get as much energy in the form of Hydrogen as you take in electrical energy from the alternator. There is no free lunch, there are no perpetual motion machines

Ok, that said... whay if you replaced the HHO generator with lets say a cylinder of H2 with a regulator as well as MAF enhancers check valves fire arrestors etc. Now the h2 gas is there and there is no draw on the alternator. Using the gasoline & H2 would it be feasable to get a savings? What does H2cost & how much would one pump into the intake

Hey I'm just tossing it out there to get peoples opinions & suggestions
What do you think?

 

[Cabrera]

I'm so happy to see life here, I though this thread was DEAD!
I've been trying to get some info from actual users of the HHO systems but I have had no luck. This thread seemed to be one of the most extensive I have yet dispite my posts and PMs to users who posted they used an HHO and who were online at the time, have proved fruitless, no replies. As much as I would like to believe this technology can work, the overpowering evidence from published documents and exposes' like NBC Dateline http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/29899191/, & Mythbusters (not the greatest of sources) in conjunction with the ominous silence from the "testers" indicates to me that the excitement is more wishful thinking and that the HHO generator does not work.