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How bad is my camber?

Tshark299

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'93 XLT
Just had the truck aligned after replacing the ball joints and steering linkage (and also radius arm bushings and wheel bearings not too long ago).

Left is at -0.5°, Right is -0.7°. Tech said I needed different adjustment bushings to get it within spec and quoted $70 for the shims and $85 labor to install them, plus the cost of an alignment.

Is it worth getting this done from a ride, handling, or tire wear perspective? The truck has over 188K miles on it and am not looking to put more money into it than I have to, but I also don't want to eat up my relatively new tires or have it handle like crap. Thoughts?
 



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crazymind

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i think speck is -0.5 but im not a 100 percent sure on that one.
 






legoms013

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Half a degree isnt horrible. Its negative, so if I were you I'd put one washer under each coil srping (they are about 0.125" thick) and then the alignment guy should be able to align it with the current eccentric camber/castor bushgins. Driving on it as is, won't be noticeable in the handling department. That depends more on castor...

BTW, tell his sorry face that you can buy those degree bushings all day long on the internet for $15-20 a piece. $70 is a rip off....
 






safn1949

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If spec is -0.5 then drive it. watch for tire wear along the edge of the tire (doubtful) and plan to add that washer if it becomes a problem.But I doubt it will.:D
 






Tshark299

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If spec is -0.5 then drive it. watch for tire wear along the edge of the tire (doubtful) and plan to add that washer if it becomes a problem.But I doubt it will.:D
According to them spec range is -0.3° in to 0.8° out, so it is out of range 0.2° on the left and 0.4° on the right. Thing is, if I add washers now I'm reading that I'll need to have the toe readjusted so I think I'm just going to live with the camber as it is. If the thing makes it to 230K and I end up needing to buy another set of tires maybe I'll have it done then haha.

And the price he quoted for the bushings doesn't surprise me. This was an actual shop, not my buddy's garage, so I'm sure they're marking them up compared to what we can get them for on the internet. The guy knew I did all the other front end work myself so he held off replacing them thinking I'd want to get and install them myself to save money.
 






legoms013

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Adding a washer won't throw anything out of whack. It may cause the steering wheel to not be exactly perfectly lined up and centered when driving straight, but that's a moot point considering most alignment technicians can't get it straight themselves. You won't accelerate tire wear by adding a washer, in fact you may actually add life since the tires will be more perpendicular to the road surface at static ride height.

I had my BFG A/T's for 45,000 miles, but only about 15k of that was with a proper alignment. All I ever did was ad washers and adjust the toe. No big deal, this TTB thing isn't rocket sceince, nor does it need to be aligned to a 0.00001 of a inch, it just isn't that crucial.....it is though on the newer types of suspension. systems.

If I were you I'd still throw a washer under there, cause negative camber looks dumb as hell IMHO and then slightly adjust the toe (or have your buddy do that part, only takes a min, maybe bring him a beer :usa:). Or just live with it, your steering wheel won't be that far off. Trust me, I've added stacks of washers and only had to adjust the tie-rod adjustment sleeves 1 or 2 turns before.
 






Tshark299

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Adding a washer won't throw anything out of whack. It may cause the steering wheel to not be exactly perfectly lined up and centered when driving straight, but that's a moot point considering most alignment technicians can't get it straight themselves. You won't accelerate tire wear by adding a washer, in fact you may actually add life since the tires will be more perpendicular to the road surface at static ride height.

I had my BFG A/T's for 45,000 miles, but only about 15k of that was with a proper alignment. All I ever did was ad washers and adjust the toe. No big deal, this TTB thing isn't rocket sceince, nor does it need to be aligned to a 0.00001 of a inch, it just isn't that crucial.....it is though on the newer types of suspension. systems.

If I were you I'd still throw a washer under there, cause negative camber looks dumb as hell IMHO and then slightly adjust the toe (or have your buddy do that part, only takes a min, maybe bring him a beer :usa:). Or just live with it, your steering wheel won't be that far off. Trust me, I've added stacks of washers and only had to adjust the tie-rod adjustment sleeves 1 or 2 turns before.

Before the alignment my steering wheel was off pretty bad to the right, a good 45-60 degrees depending on the road surface. I told them it was way off when I dropped it off. Now since I've gotten it back it tracks much straighter but the steering wheel is off about 30° to the left now! I just can't win. I think I'm just going to leave it as is on all counts though. It drives straight, doesn't pull anymore, and the camber isn't that bad looking from an aesthetic standpoint... not like it was when both lower ball joints were toast. It's sounding like the extra tire wear will be minimal if noticeable at all and I'm religious about rotating them anyway. I need to focus my efforts on getting the clutch replaced before I run out of time this season anyway.
 






Quadzilla-EFI

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I have been having serious problems with my tire wear also. The tires are wearing on the inside almost to the point that the inner edge is worn out and the outer edge surface still has the little rubber nipples on it. I've had it aligned at Sears, and a local tire shop. The last place said I was running the wrong size tire(31x10.50-15) and they also said the front suspension was designed wrong from the get-go. I highly doubt the tire size is the cause of the wear because when I bought the truck the stock tires were showing the exact same wear as the new tires are showing. I've replaced the upper camber adjusters, new ball joints in all positions, new radius arm bushing as well as swingarm bushings, all were replaced with poly bushings. I'm at my wits end as I can hardly afford to replace the front tires after 10Kmiles all the time.

Any recommendations?
 






legoms013

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Are you lifted any Quadzila?

Don't let alignment shops walk over you they are all out to make a buck and don't care a whole lot about what the customer has to say.

Cracks me up that they told you that the suspension was designed wrong in the first place. That's a pretty powerful jab at Ford and all their engineers isn't it? lol
 






iteotwawki

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BTW, tell his sorry face that you can buy those degree bushings all day long on the internet for $15-20 a piece. $70 is a rip off....

Yes a total ripoff. Never mind that the owner of the company paid 40K for the alignment machine, $3,500 a month rent on the shop. Labor, workmans comp, taxes and unemployment insurance, permits, business taxes etc.

$70 bucks for the part, and $85 labor is cheap. I bet it comes with a warranty. Buy the part and do it yourself or pay the man his do, but don't bitch about it.
 






Quadzilla-EFI

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No lift of any kind is installed on the X. The larger tires are the only mods so far. Other than the poly bushings in all positions formerly occupied by the stock rubber bushings.

Quad.
 






legoms013

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Yes a total ripoff. Never mind that the owner of the company paid 40K for the alignment machine, $3,500 a month rent on the shop. Labor, workmans comp, taxes and unemployment insurance, permits, business taxes etc.

$70 bucks for the part, and $85 labor is cheap. I bet it comes with a warranty. Buy the part and do it yourself or pay the man his do, but don't bitch about it.

DO NOT lecture me on overhead costs.

We have a difference in financial philosophy. Take it or leave it. Not everyone operates like you, and not everyone operates like me. However, despite how much money I make or don't make I'd rather spend $50 over $155 any day. Some will agree, some will disagree. There are always cheaper ways to do something, and I usually go that route.

This is America, do as you please

No lift of any kind is installed on the X. The larger tires are the only mods so far. Other than the poly bushings in all positions formerly occupied by the stock rubber bushings.

Quad.

I'm guessing a bad toe setting. I would take it to a third alignment shop and have them look at it. Something could be bent as well, if it has ever been in a wreck.
 






Maniak

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One thing you may want to consider. Do the alignments yourself. I gave up on alignment shops in Tucson. I've gone to 4 and none of them know what they are doing. They just do what the computer says to do.. I used to have a great alignment guy in the Phoenix area But he has since switched from doing to teaching (better money). I was spending $70 for the alignment and another $70 on fuel to have him align the X.

I picked up a SPC 91000 camber/caster gauge so I could do camber/caster myself. I made my own toe adapter for it. I may not be as fast as an alignment shop but if you take into account the driving and waiting time at the shop I'm just as fast.

The SPC9100 was paid for in under 3 alignments.

~Mark
 






BWTGUY

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Here is the strait poop for 1st Gen Exploders Alignment

:DHere is the correct ADJUSTABLE Castor/Camber Part from Rock Auto. Price, $14.19 ea.

MOOG Part # K8670 use K8986 Caster/Camber Adjusting Kit 4 WHEEL/ALL WHEEL DRIVE,ADJUSTABLE

Here are the correct castor/camber adjustment instructions from the 1992 Ford Explorer repair manual. This is applicable for 1st Gen only.

1. Measure vehicle caster and camber. Refer to the alignment charts in the Description part of this section to determine if the vehicle is within specifications. Note any difference between the actual measurements and the specification. This information will be used to select the correct service adjuster.

2. Refer to the following chart. Using the information from Step 1, select the correct service adjuster. Note the orientation of the slot required to obtain the correct alignment.

Example: If caster and camber together must be reduced one degree at the left wheel, select the 1-1/2-degree service adjuster and orient the slot 315 degrees from the straight-ahead position in the vehicle.

If the same adjustment was required for the right side, the orientation would be 225 degrees from straight-ahead position.

In all cases, select the service adjuster that will bring the alignment into specification with the smallest side-to-side variation (minimize caster and camber splits).

3. Remove the front wheel.

4. On 4x4 vehicles, remove the snap ring on top of the caster/camber adjuster.

5. Remove the pinch bolt at the upper ball joint and pry the adjuster out of the axle with the blade of a screwdriver. If required, use Pitman Arm Puller T64P-3590-F or equivalent to remove the adjuster, or removal tool D81T-3010-B or equivalent.

6. Install the new service adjuster. Orient the slot as specified in the chart at the end of this procedure. A 1-1/2-inch socket may be used to rotate the adjuster into position.

7. Tighten the pinch-bolt to 65-88 N-m (48-65 ft-lb) and install a new caster/camber adjuster snap ring.

8. Install the front wheel.

9. Check alignment and reset toe to specification.

Lots O Luck.
 






iteotwawki

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DO NOT lecture me on overhead costs.

We have a difference in financial philosophy. Take it or leave it. Not everyone operates like you, and not everyone operates like me. However, despite how much money I make or don't make I'd rather spend $50 over $155 any day. Some will agree, some will disagree. There are always cheaper ways to do something, and I usually go that route.

This is America, do as you please

I want to apologize to Legoms013 and anyone reading this thread. It was uncalled for, for me to rip on someone publically because I disagree with their opinion. My comments were unnecessary and I’m sorry.
 






JonTheSavage

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Yes a total ripoff. Never mind that the owner of the company paid 40K for the alignment machine, $3,500 a month rent on the shop. Labor, workmans comp, taxes and unemployment insurance, permits, business taxes etc.

$70 bucks for the part, and $85 labor is cheap. I bet it comes with a warranty. Buy the part and do it yourself or pay the man his do, but don't bitch about it.

Don't forget to account for the %1,000 inflation in the past 10 years. You are right, it is cheap, I run a comp repair business, and charged $60 to fix a computer 8 years ago. Still charging $60, and I'm almost broke now.
 






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