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How to get better Gas Mileage?

JETZ

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Better gas mileage worth talking about? Give me a break!
You bought a 4500 lbs pound brick, and you want mileage like a Prius, well that’s what you should have bought. :laugh:

You could always tear out the AC, remove the interior, and install with aluminum folding deck chairs, remove all glass, and replace with Plexi, install carbon fenders/ hood/doors/ hatch, pump up tires to 60 psi, put signs on the doors :snicker: ( no grass, no ass, no GAS), loose fifty pounds off your fat ass etc....:crazy::thumbsup: It is what it is folks, you bought it to enjoy, but now you’re whining.

BTW: you want 5 blinks, engage the blinker stalk full on, gives you as many as you want, just like the idiot in front of you in the left lane for forty miles :hammer:...easy peasy.
 



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KayGee

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My history has shown with some filter mods and filter box mods at most I get about 2-4mpg increase.

I realize the above is from a rather old post, but since this thread was just re-upped, I figured I would take a moment to say the results above are truly amazing. 2-4MPG improvements with a filter/filter box mods is absolutely yuge!! I know I would love to hear more on this as that would be a 15-25% improvement in my MPG.
 






Napalm

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I haven't read any of this thread but I will say this. I'm not a fan of airbox mods or CAI's on modern cars. Look at how the exploder's box is designed today - it already is a CAI. But I did trade the paper filter for an AEM dry element filter - their newer synthetic compound - it cleans the air well - and it has given me about a 1-2 mpg improvement. which I sort of expected. So far so good it's been in there 2 years.

big fan of it. Got one for my F150 also.
 






KayGee

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I haven't read any of this thread but I will say this. I'm not a fan of airbox mods or CAI's on modern cars. Look at how the exploder's box is designed today - it already is a CAI. But I did trade the paper filter for an AEM dry element filter - their newer synthetic compound - it cleans the air well - and it has given me about a 1-2 mpg improvement. which I sort of expected. So far so good it's been in there 2 years.

big fan of it. Got one for my F150 also.
I noticed AEM doesn't appear to make any MPG claims on their website. Do you have any data to confirm your 1-2 mpg improvement. That's a potential 5-10% improvement on the explorer. That seems like a lot for any OEM to just leave on the table. Wouldn't you agree?
 






Napalm

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uhm well - highway average for the first 30K miles of the car did roughly 22 mpg. Now I run 75+ often and it's wife, and kiddo in the car from day one.

since filter change - for the next 36K miles - it can usually get between 23 and 24.5 mpg - same setup in the same parts of the country.

now. 1 mpg up over 22 mpg would be a 4.5% improvement. 2 mpg up is 9%. The paper filter costs 15 dollars the dry filter element costs 60. so 4 times the cost (or more really because I'm sure ford doesn't pay 15 per paper filter) for 5 % relative improvement is not going to make the balance sheet.

Other ways to meet that - LRR tires. smoother lines (pretty smooth now - pointier front end (let face if the front was another foot forward and pointier it would also get better highway mpgs)

meanwhile by the way - the filter gave me no city MPG improvement - that I can tell. Not surprising mind you, but if there is any it's about 0.5 mpg. hard to measure since we don't run a typical city loop by any means.

Our week average went from 20 even to 20.4-20.9 depending on the time of year etc. I gather this using the Acar app on my mobile FYI - I keep track of all my cars.
 






613GT500

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Cruise, plus maintaining speed between 60-65mph resulted in the most savings!
I can drive like this to work from Mon-Fri.
 






Odrapnew

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I'm still questioning the improvement due to the filter.

For discussion, let's say you are driving the same route, same speed, load, wind, temp....etc.....everything the same except for the filter.

It takes the same HP to run the same ''loop."
Since RPM is also the same, the engine load remains the same.

Let's also say that you might have to give a little more pedal input to maintain the same speed with a more restrictive filter. The actual engine load(i.e HP) is still unchanged, so air flow, fuel, timing should remain unchanged as well.

I could see potentially more power at peak air flow, but we're talking very low power vs. peak.
 






KayGee

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now. 1 mpg up over 22 mpg would be a 4.5% improvement. 2 mpg up is 9%. The paper filter costs 15 dollars the dry filter element costs 60. so 4 times the cost (or more really because I'm sure ford doesn't pay 15 per paper filter) for 5 % relative improvement is not going to make the balance sheet.
I wan to make sure I follow.
Over 36K miles:
@22mpg, that is ~1,636 gallons of fuel burned
@23mpg, that is ~71 less gallons of fuel burned (~$178 fuel savings @$2.50/gal)
@24mpg, that is ~136 less gallons of fuel burned (~$340 fuel savings @$2.50/gal)

Those savings certainly seem like they would be enough to 'make the balance sheet' over the life of a vehicle (let's say 100K miles overall with at least 36K of those highway, as an example). I am always interested in any real evidence to back up these claimed savings from aftermarket doodads. If true, I don't understand why OEMs wouldn't be all over this. It seems like an easy way for them would be to offer the filter as an option (factory/dealer installed/either) and advertise the potentially hundreds of dollars in savings over the life of the vehicle. Who wouldn't opt for 5-10% better mileage if it was as simple as changing the air filter? Then again, if it really were true, I would expect AEM and K&N to be shouting it from the rooftops and providing detailed data to confirm the claims.
 






Napalm

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Over 2 years well OK 1.5 years. we put too many miles on the car in one year but that's a different rant.

You know what else would have done that - probably trading tires. Polishing the car weekly, or monthly. lowering it 1 inch. Putting lighter wheels on it, taking 500 lbs out of it

I get tired of this argument on the internet too from people that have never run a engine test for ECU calibration. But but if it was that good why dont . . . .

OK so here's a thing Koenigsegg you know those guys that make the super cars - look at what they use for an air filter. Pagani - check out what's in the box of a zonda F. YOu get to the further extremes and they will go to the 10th degree to get the performance out. for a million dollar coupe'

Even if AEM cuts ford a deal for the 300K exploder they make next year I bet the filter still costs 30 per - vs hell 5 for the paper ones. who knows. but what's the warranty on that - what's the shop going to do when it comes in - who's going to clean it next year - not your dealer shop and not jimmy owner.

It's like putting better oil in the engine. I mean we all can agree there are better oils out there - they cost more too - and exceed all the various ASTM testings needed t meet the Ford _________ spec in the book. Sure thing - but none of that is factory fill for a exploder - or even the mustang GT350.

Tuning - it's been proven time and again that retuning the engines makes more power and often brings better MPG's - on cheaper fuel in some cases. so them why is there that much slop in the ECU software? Tune to the nth degree right. Warranty is a factor too, aside from the fact that occasionally they make a factory monster - they also occasionally make a factory weakling - so the min spec motor as installed make 295HP on 91 octane pump gas - that's how the rating on the door is created. + or - 5% or so. That's where some of the slop is derived from - so the factory weakling performs to spec and everything else in middle ground.

Notice I said it had no effect or little effect on the city mpgs - without moving the needle on both marks there is little to no benefit to Ford - but there is something to be said for marketing the car under _______ dollars. It's not enough benefit to car or reliability measure - not everyone is going to drive 26K miles in one year - but I did. Not everyone is going to keep running records of MPG in a app - but I do. Most people wouldn't even notice it.

OH and tomorrow you'll get new different tires - and guess what - might lose a mpg.
 






jhu8

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Over 2 years well OK 1.5 years. we put too many miles on the car in one year but that's a different rant.

You know what else would have done that - probably trading tires. Polishing the car weekly, or monthly. lowering it 1 inch. Putting lighter wheels on it, taking 500 lbs out of it

I get tired of this argument on the internet too from people that have never run a engine test for ECU calibration. But but if it was that good why dont . . . .

OK so here's a thing Koenigsegg you know those guys that make the super cars - look at what they use for an air filter. Pagani - check out what's in the box of a zonda F. YOu get to the further extremes and they will go to the 10th degree to get the performance out. for a million dollar coupe'

Even if AEM cuts ford a deal for the 300K exploder they make next year I bet the filter still costs 30 per - vs hell 5 for the paper ones. who knows. but what's the warranty on that - what's the shop going to do when it comes in - who's going to clean it next year - not your dealer shop and not jimmy owner.

It's like putting better oil in the engine. I mean we all can agree there are better oils out there - they cost more too - and exceed all the various ASTM testings needed t meet the Ford _________ spec in the book. Sure thing - but none of that is factory fill for a exploder - or even the mustang GT350.

Tuning - it's been proven time and again that retuning the engines makes more power and often brings better MPG's - on cheaper fuel in some cases. so them why is there that much slop in the ECU software? Tune to the nth degree right. Warranty is a factor too, aside from the fact that occasionally they make a factory monster - they also occasionally make a factory weakling - so the min spec motor as installed make 295HP on 91 octane pump gas - that's how the rating on the door is created. + or - 5% or so. That's where some of the slop is derived from - so the factory weakling performs to spec and everything else in middle ground.

Notice I said it had no effect or little effect on the city mpgs - without moving the needle on both marks there is little to no benefit to Ford - but there is something to be said for marketing the car under _______ dollars. It's not enough benefit to car or reliability measure - not everyone is going to drive 26K miles in one year - but I did. Not everyone is going to keep running records of MPG in a app - but I do. Most people wouldn't even notice it.

OH and tomorrow you'll get new different tires - and guess what - might lose a mpg.

Can you post this filter you upgraded to? I am relatively happy with my mpg but any attempt at boosting it, I am interested. I average 21.5 in winter and over 22 in summer. Highway I get over 26. But I would love to increase this even more if I can.
 






Napalm

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I'm still questioning the improvement due to the filter.

For discussion, let's say you are driving the same route, same speed, load, wind, temp....etc.....everything the same except for the filter.

It takes the same HP to run the same ''loop."
Since RPM is also the same, the engine load remains the same.

Let's also say that you might have to give a little more pedal input to maintain the same speed with a more restrictive filter. The actual engine load(i.e HP) is still unchanged, so air flow, fuel, timing should remain unchanged as well.

I could see potentially more power at peak air flow, but we're talking very low power vs. peak.

bear in mind while one cylinder is sparked and on it's power stroke - on a V6 - 2 more are in or about to be in the intake stroke. The less restriction to their intake air the better. Going from a paper tight cell inconsistent form filter to a woven, layers, synthetic material with more space - is going to be a bit less restrictive. So therefore - that one power stroke - every 6 times per revolution - is going to make a little bit more torque for equal fuel at air load. Remember the engine ECU looks at it like this. Demand torque vs needed RPM (transmission gear, current speed) - means for every _____ of air in the hole, I will use fuel injection duration ________ (not fuel injectors work on pressure by duration - so fuel rail pressure is measured so pressure x duration becomes needed fuel) while adjusting the spark timing to ________ degrees, and if it's in the map - shift the cam duration to ________ because of this load.

In the middle of all that if learns that demand torque is meet - it then tries to use less fuel - it's always learning. So after a few months it used a tick less fuel, or it also shifts the spark a degree. but more oft than not is uses a tick less fuel. over a while especially on highway steady state load - those ticks would add up some. It's still not that much.

Biggest shift I see in my mpg map - is when the trade from summer/fall fuel moves to winter fuel and back again. That tends to run about 1-2 mpg too, imagine that. OH and calculated not per the meter on the dash.

Now there is another argument - some say the non paper filters don't filter as well. And I think depending on the design of the test samples this could well be true. There are tests that show this - one of the most common is the GMC duramax diesel air filter test vs aftermarkets. And when you look at how deep that paper filter is - and the pressures the duramax reaches on intake (though the turbo in this case) - then it does make some sense. If I lived in a dustier environment I might look a little differently at what air filter I used.
 






Napalm

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Odrapnew

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bear in mind while one cylinder is sparked and on it's power stroke - on a V6 - 2 more are in or about to be in the intake stroke. The less restriction to their intake air the better. Going from a paper tight cell inconsistent form filter to a woven, layers, synthetic material with more space - is going to be a bit less restrictive. So therefore - that one power stroke - every 6 times per revolution - is going to make a little bit more torque for equal fuel at air load. Remember the engine ECU looks at it like this. Demand torque vs needed RPM (transmission gear, current speed) - means for every _____ of air in the hole, I will use fuel injection duration ________ (not fuel injectors work on pressure by duration - so fuel rail pressure is measured so pressure x duration becomes needed fuel) while adjusting the spark timing to ________ degrees, and if it's in the map - shift the cam duration to ________ because of this load.

In the middle of all that if learns that demand torque is meet - it then tries to use less fuel - it's always learning. So after a few months it used a tick less fuel, or it also shifts the spark a degree. but more oft than not is uses a tick less fuel. over a while especially on highway steady state load - those ticks would add up some. It's still not that much.

Biggest shift I see in my mpg map - is when the trade from summer/fall fuel moves to winter fuel and back again. That tends to run about 1-2 mpg too, imagine that. OH and calculated not per the meter on the dash.

Now there is another argument - some say the non paper filters don't filter as well. And I think depending on the design of the test samples this could well be true. There are tests that show this - one of the most common is the GMC duramax diesel air filter test vs aftermarkets. And when you look at how deep that paper filter is - and the pressures the duramax reaches on intake (though the turbo in this case) - then it does make some sense. If I lived in a dustier environment I might look a little differently at what air filter I used.

I completely agree with the summer/winter switch. Definitely noticeable..

Now, according to your theory, assuming the same trend, a dirty filter would provide reduced mileage because it is more restrictive.

Although this report is about 10 years old(and tested on sedans), it's a pretty good report to show that on modern(fuel injected) vehicles, fuel mileage is minimally impacted by higher restriction(dirty) filter.
On average, a clogged filter actually resulted in better mileage, albeit, a very small change.
Note they tested a carbureted car and saw a reduction in mileage.

https://www.fueleconomy.gov/feg/pdfs/Air_Filter_Effects_02_26_2009.pdf

The other item that could have a noticeable impact on fuel mileage is tire. Are you running the same tires the first 36K as last 36k? Just making sure that there wasn't another change that could coincide with the filter change.
 






Napalm

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traded tires at 25K miles and again here recently, then again at 42 for 2 of them, and all 4 at 74K.

from 25K though 74K - exact same tire. recently switched and will wait a few months before noting if there is a change. (wait for the tire to wear in)

SO yes I considered that but I kept the same tire for quite a while. noticed no difference between the Kumho's that were OE - and the michelin's that I put on at 25K. Or it doesn't register a noted difference.

One thing about that study is what exactly is dirty. DId they pack it full of sand and soil - shake it out and weight before and after? DID they test it against a flow bench. On the fuel injected car did the test run for more than a month

Thing is on a purpose made flow bench - new paper to new ______ air filter provided all other bits equal is often the same or similar. at year one that's different oh wait the recommendation is to trade your paper filter at one year - or clean your ___ air filter.

My biggest grief - I hate the you must have a CAI with modern cars. YES back in the 90's though about 2005 or so there was a time with a some modded airbox and tube really did help the engine performance. since them all makers have looked harder at air intake tract. As I said before most Fords I've noticed have a form of a cold air snorkel to the box. OH and tube size - short of the turbo'd mills. A bigger tube doesn't necessarily flow better - to the betterment of the engine. I agree with that. I have a whole other rant on Exhaust design and the detriment of custom exhausts.

But saying a different form of air filter can't help - is just as backwards. On a test stand you can hear the different in the intake tract - provided it's not covered up with exhaust noise. you can measure it. but as I said before 10% isn't a big shift, and it does take time for the ECU to adjust.

Or you tune it. One of my other cars - Green filter different brand - I did that when I tuned it at the same time so I could adjust the MAF table accommodating the new filter at the same time. bigger difference - that same day. But I was also tuning it out, too.
 






KayGee

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Over 2 years well OK 1.5 years. we put too many miles on the car in one year but that's a different rant.

You know what else would have done that - probably trading tires. Polishing the car weekly, or monthly. lowering it 1 inch. Putting lighter wheels on it, taking 500 lbs out of it

I get tired of this argument on the internet too from people that have never run a engine test for ECU calibration. But but if it was that good why dont . . . .

OK so here's a thing Koenigsegg you know those guys that make the super cars - look at what they use for an air filter. Pagani - check out what's in the box of a zonda F. YOu get to the further extremes and they will go to the 10th degree to get the performance out. for a million dollar coupe'

Even if AEM cuts ford a deal for the 300K exploder they make next year I bet the filter still costs 30 per - vs hell 5 for the paper ones. who knows. but what's the warranty on that - what's the shop going to do when it comes in - who's going to clean it next year - not your dealer shop and not jimmy owner.

It's like putting better oil in the engine. I mean we all can agree there are better oils out there - they cost more too - and exceed all the various ASTM testings needed t meet the Ford _________ spec in the book. Sure thing - but none of that is factory fill for a exploder - or even the mustang GT350.

Tuning - it's been proven time and again that retuning the engines makes more power and often brings better MPG's - on cheaper fuel in some cases. so them why is there that much slop in the ECU software? Tune to the nth degree right. Warranty is a factor too, aside from the fact that occasionally they make a factory monster - they also occasionally make a factory weakling - so the min spec motor as installed make 295HP on 91 octane pump gas - that's how the rating on the door is created. + or - 5% or so. That's where some of the slop is derived from - so the factory weakling performs to spec and everything else in middle ground.

Notice I said it had no effect or little effect on the city mpgs - without moving the needle on both marks there is little to no benefit to Ford - but there is something to be said for marketing the car under _______ dollars. It's not enough benefit to car or reliability measure - not everyone is going to drive 26K miles in one year - but I did. Not everyone is going to keep running records of MPG in a app - but I do. Most people wouldn't even notice it.

OH and tomorrow you'll get new different tires - and guess what - might lose a mpg.
You were the one that said you got a mpg improvement from a filter. All I asked was if there was any info to quantify that, not a primer on the other things that affect mpg. I didn't say ford HAD to put your magical filter in, but merely questioned why an OEM wouldn't at least offer it as a customer pay option (either factory or dealer installed) if there was a verifiable 5-10% mpg gain. As a customer, if I was presented with two exactly identical vehicles, except one had a $30-50 air filter option and 5-10% better mpg than the other, I'd be foolish not to opt for the higher mpg version, right? Further, if the gains are verifiable, why would AEM/K&N scream that shit from the rooftops?

At the end of the day, I'm not sure what the take away here is as your last two lengthy posts seem to say there is so much noise between tire changes, fuel changes, oil changes, wax on/wax off, and so on ,that you can't verify what, if any, benefit there is from the filter change. Right?

Lots of carnival barkers and snake oil salesmen in the automotive aftermarket. Be careful out there folks...
 






Odrapnew

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How they set up and tested is all in the (long) report.
Short summary is that they used shop towels in front of the filter to simulate a clogged filter. They didn't use tape or try to feed dust due to consistency/flow distribution concerns. Shop towels were to simulate even debris loading.
The dirty filter was determined by restriction on the specific car that was being tested.
No, the test was not run over months, back to back testing to 3 specific(DOT?) drive cycles to get results with almost identical conditions. I guess I could see the ECU making additional changes as it learned, but not 10% change.

I guess in my experience with my Explorer, I didn't notice a change in fuel economy when I changed the air filter the one time at around 50K miles.
 






Napalm

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You were the one that said you got a mpg improvement from a filter. All I asked was if there was any info to quantify that, not a primer on the other things that affect mpg. I didn't say ford HAD to put your magical filter in, but merely questioned why an OEM wouldn't at least offer it as a customer pay option (either factory or dealer installed) if there was a verifiable 5-10% mpg gain. As a customer, if I was presented with two exactly identical vehicles, except one had a $30-50 air filter option and 5-10% better mpg than the other, I'd be foolish not to opt for the higher mpg version, right? Further, if the gains are verifiable, why would AEM/K&N scream that shit from the rooftops?

At the end of the day, I'm not sure what the take away here is as your last two lengthy posts seem to say there is so much noise between tire changes, fuel changes, oil changes, wax on/wax off, and so on ,that you can't verify what, if any, benefit there is from the filter change. Right?

Lots of carnival barkers and snake oil salesmen in the automotive aftermarket. Be careful out there folks...


I agree to a point and to be fair I'm a little surprised you don't see more of that. I mean notice they show HP figures for all the engines using 91 octane pure fuel - what a disclaimer right. How many buyers miss that nugget? Better - how many buyers notice most other car makers saying the same thing too.

I mean in a Sport model of ________ I'm a bit surprised they don't bother to put in a dry fibre filter. OH but now I should mention it does make a bit more intake noise at low rpm, throttle - the sound it a touch different. My wife noticed, which surprised me as she's neck deep into whatever is on the radio.

But again even with the noise - for the sport model why do you care. Most sport models people want louder exhaust anyway. (oh my other rant on exhaust for that gotta have the other 10% of performance why don't all cars come with SS welded exhaust headers vs cast manifolds)

OH and K&N does screem it from the rooftops. They sell enough to stay in business and keep making profit. Hell they bought out AEM it seems.
 






KayGee

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Here's is K&Ns FAQ page - K&N Frequently Asked Questions (FAQ)

Please show me where they scream their mpg claims from the rooftops. Pay special attention to the areas in the red/blue/green squares.

gfNNWuC.jpg


The fuel economy comment is also on their air filter page near the bottom. Performance Air Filters | Designed to Increase Airflow | K&N

YoJIKFy.jpg


Strangely enough, AEM does not seem to have any mpg claims/references in their FAQ at all. AEM Air Intakes - Frequently Asked Questions
Nor do they seem to have any MPG claims on their website. I guess K&N bought AEM about 10 years ago and the AEM website just says the filters were developed in collaboration with K&N.
 






Napalm

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well I sit corrected then I thought they did claim improvements.
 



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