How to test my A/C Glacier991 or anyone

[MadExplorer93]

Ok guys expecially Glacier991 i have as you may know a 1993 Ford explorer V6i purchased in may of this year and the A/C kins works all the speeds work and of course when the speed selector is pushed in for A/C the light for the A/C comes on showing there is power to the A/C.

The A/C blows hot air for sometime even if i open windows and drive like 1/2 hour it warm to cool breeze coming from it. The A/C has not ever for me blown nice COLD AIR and i am sick of this heat in Canada and i rather spen that little extra in Gas to keep cool.

The unit was retrofitted to R-416A about 3 years ago by prbious owner and even he stated it never really got COLD.

Under the hood on the sticker it states this information.

Retrofitted to Frigc R-416A
Charge Amount 1lb 12 ozs
Manufacturer (i think is) Dongal
Lubricant Amount 2 ozs

No i called a plce in my home town that actually did the retrofitting 3 years ago and i asked what could be the problem they said they don't know. I said does it have to be recharged and they said no A/C system should ever have to be recharged if it is not leaking. I said how to you test for leaks and they said using a special dye and of course they would not tell me what it was.

Is there a way for a DIY person to test the unit and does it have to be recharged or did they do something wrong from day one.

Thks.

 

[mawrazen]

The AC light will go on, but if the freon level is too low the compressor will not kick in. Try recharging the system, or do a self retofit kit to the environmentally friendly stuff. A lot of repair shops will do a free or cheap AC test.

Hope this helps!

 

[BrooklynBay]

Every system leaks a small amount every year. Don't you mean R-134A? What kind of freon is R-416A?

 

[MadExplorer93]

mawrazen


"retofit kit to the environmentally friendly stuff"

R-416A is more friendly then the other stuff R134A or R12 and makes the compressor last longer then those two refrigerants.


Thks for advice i may take it in if i can find a shop in my town that tests for free... which i have not yet...


If freon/refrigerant level is low does this mean it is leaking to cause a low level?

About R-416A

http://www.refimax.com/Page3799.aspx

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BrooklynBay

No i mean R-416A and i did not know it leaks out a small amount each year... hmm is this suppose to occur?

Can i recharge it myself easily as i don't like being forzen and or exploding up from pressures within the A/C system.


About R-416A

http://www.refimax.com/Page3799.aspx

 

[mawrazen]

Short of rebuilding the whole AC system, go to wally world and get $35 retrofit kit. It comes w/ 2 cans of freon. The leaks are usually tolerable. Once you have the kit just pick up a can of freon and topoff the AC system innthe late spring and add when neccesary. The kit comes with a pressure gauge. Make sure you bleed the air out first! If it was charged with the old refrigerant you would want that old R-134 evacuated at a shop. But if your system wont turn on, I assume the refregerant has leaked out.

So its not G. W. BUSH'S fault for the hole in the ozone layer!

 

[MadExplorer93]

It is not R-134 it is R-416A like noted above and R-416A is newer then R-134 and better then R-12 or equivalent, but much friendlier to Ozone then both R-134A and R-12.

I am not sure if the wally world stuff will work as i noted mine was retrofitted to R-416A, so i need R-416A.

And yes G.W Bush is at fault for our Ozone layer... he loves to be cold at many things he does...

The system turns on i think... lol.. just blows hot air for some time then cool... not cold. like my brothers chevy truck 2002 blows nice cold air in about 10-15min driving mine cool air in over an hour of driving and that is even when i open windows first to let all hot air out.... his truck like leave windows closed 10-15min COLD AIR.

See i know the switch in the dash the light come son when you push in to A/C and i choose MAX A/C setting to recirculate.

How do i know for sure system is on i do hear the fan i think kick in when i push button in.

 

[mawrazen]

CHARRRRRGE IT! As wy wife would say.

 

[MadExplorer93]

So basically your saying go get some R-416A and charge this bugger.. ok is there a good link on how to do this for DIY project in which i can't get frozen?



I just made a thread about FR-12 and R-416A in this very forum read about em for me as i have no idea about doing A/C stuff as i always drove and fixed non A/C vehicles until this year i bought this ford explorer.

 

[BrooklynBay]

You need a manifold gauge set to read the pressure of the high, and low side as well as a port for recharing the system while the gauges are connected. The gauges have to be made for R-416A only. Read Glacier991's sticky thread on recharging an A/C system.

 

[MadExplorer93]

You need a manifold gauge set to read the pressure of the high, and low side as well as a port for recharing the system while the gauges are connected. The gauges have to be made for R-416A only. Read Glacier991's sticky thread on recharging an A/C system.

Ok i will read his thread again.....

Third time now.....

I still don't know where to hook up gauges and stuff and to recharge the system do i need all the equipment he has?

 

[BrooklynBay]

13 important things to have when servicing an A/C system.

Here is a list of things if you want to do everything correctly:

1. Manifold gauge set.
2. Vacuum pump.
3. Refrigerant (sniffer) electronic leak tester.
4. Freon.
5. Compressor lubricant.
6. System dye (optional) with a UV light to test for leaks.
7. Replacement green "O" rings.
8. A/C system flush.
9. Fittings, and adapters to convert a system.
10. Proper charging hoses.
11. Orifice tube (get the correct color coded one).
12. Jumper wire for temporarily shorting the pressure switch connection to engage the compressor clutch.
13. Hose connection disconnect tools (spring lock set).

 

[MadExplorer93]

Ok so how much will you charge me to do this for me....

I may just bring it on in.... seems to be to much work for me.. i have been lazy for so many years... no need to get my stress level up again...

I will look into it more too see if i can get it done myself, but if not i guess i will have to pay someone to do so.

 

[BrooklynBay]

Start with the manifold gauge set. Don't stress about having every possible thing. You first have to see what kind of high, and low pressure you have on the system.

 

[MadExplorer93]

Ok i shall see if a friend has one.

As for if i need all of that stuff..... wow 500.00 or more just for tools.... i amy as well take it into a shop and have them diagnose it for me if they do for FREE which i have not found one yet in town to do it for free, but if i can get them to test system for free... them i can post here on what it is they say it is and then maybe i can get help from you and everyone else on for me DIY project.

 

[MadExplorer93]

Ok so i may as well address this here in my A/C thread as well:

When idling in park for 10-15min i don't hear the clutch fan kick in and the temp is around the NO in the normal position of the temp gauge. If i let it idle like for maybe an hour the temp goes to AL of normal position and then the clutch fan kicks in.

Also for my A/C i had the A/C on at the time of 10-15min idle and the damn thing blows hot air. The clutch fan is not engaged of course like noted above. The condensor is HOT and the hose coming out of the condensor is hot and it has the RED cap on it. The hose leading up to the evaporator box is hot at that end too and it has a BLUE cap on that line. The steel pipe from that hose to the black box (Evapoartor) is hot.

When i shut vehicle off i can spin the fan and it has resistance as it does not spin all the way around. I only used my tip of my finger and you can feel the resistance.

I was wondering when is the clutch fan suppose to be engaging when the A/C is on.

Also i read somewhere that the thermostat is 212F for these vehicles... WOW that is pretty dang hot before cooling goes around.

 

[MadExplorer93]

Ok guys i unplugged the low pressure switch i was confused on clutch fan i thought people mean't the actual fan/clutch fan on motor. Even though i still want someone to clarify those temps for me as that is hot.

Ok after reading the first gen thread on A/C i unplugged the switch and jumped it... and the then started engine then pushed the A/C knob on inside of vehicle and i heard the clicking sound of the A/C compressor kicking in, but it does not do this when it is not jumped.

So is it a bad low pressure switch or leakage that is causing my Hot Air in my A/C cooling system?

I don't have gauges to test pressure for any A/C system and my friend said R-416A he not have gauges for it and if there was a leak can i fix it with causing harm to myself from A/C coolant?

There is only one shop he knows of that does it in town and it is the one that retrofited this A/C system.

thks

 

[MadExplorer93]

Ok after talking with a mechanic friend who does A/C after i finally got a hold of him. He told me to take the blue cap off and see if anything is leaking there and sure enough i seen oil in the valve area once cap was off and then he said ok push the valve stem down it is ball type valve stem as when it was retro fitted the guys put that type on for R-416A refrigerant. My friend said he wanted to see if there was anything in the system still and once i pushed down the valve stem i got sprayed on my arms and chest and the battery and such got sprayed.. lol.. (i was wearing protective glasses) as Glacier991 always stressed to do.

Anyhow my friend then said there is system pressure and that there is at least some coolant in it. He then got me to jump the low pressure switch again and run the engine with A/C on for about 1-2 min and then touch the Canister under the low pressure switch the big black one and he said if the system is working that canister would be COLD like freezing in 1-2 min and guess what (it is not ) so he said that the low pressure switch is most likely fine and the valve itself most likely had been leaking for sometime maybe even two years as far as i know. so basically he said wait until i have some cash and get the R-416A out of it and then bring it to him and he will put new R-134A fittings and R-134A in the system and check for leaks.

He also said i could get a R-134A coversion kit at walmart in the USA as Canada not sell them well at least not here in our town, he not sure if others do and he would do it for me.


He also said *note R-416A is not approved by any manufacturer and they won't touch it and most shops won't because of that and the only ones that will are the shops that use it, so imagine your on a trip in the USA or Canada he said and your A/C is not working it is better to have R-134A in the thing instead of R-416A even though R-416A is a nice refrigerant don't use based upon the reason that manufacturers don't use it.

So i suppose my A/C quest is done for now until i get some more money.

Damn it is hot out here today.

Check it out at JC Whitney...

R134A conversion kit.

http://www.jcwhitney.com/webapp/wcs...D=231000000&productId=2005488&catalogId=10101

 

[MadExplorer93]

Be extremely cautious about converting your old R-12 system to R-134a. The R-134a conversion kits sold at Auto Parts stores and even WalMart, are called "Black Death Kits" by some AC repairmen. Frequently, the new R-134a refrigerant will not circulate the R-12 oil and you will burn up your compressor. The R-12 mineral oil has chlorine contaminants that will destroy the R-134a PAG or POE special oil. The only way to reliably convert from R-12 to R-134a is to remove the compressor and flush out all the old oil with the new type of oil; then replace the old Receiver-Dryer or Accumulator with a new one; then flush out all the lines, the evaporator, and the condensor with special cleaner then vacuum to a steady vacuum; and finally charge with 70-80%, (by weight) of the original R-12 weight, with R-134a; and expect poorer cooling ability. It is much easier to keep the old R-12 system running with R-12 that is readily available via ebay.
Venting refrigerant -- even R-134a -- is illegal in the United States, so act accordingly.
NEVER connect refrigerant cans, oil or leak-detector cans to the "high pressure side" of the system. This is often marked with H or HIGH, or a red connector cap. Cans can explode, and that would hurt.
Stay away from major leaks of refrigerant. As it vents it will get cold enough to freeze your skin.
Look out for moving fan blades and fan belts!
HC12 is a hydrocarbon, usually some mix of butane or propane. It will ignite with an ignition source (as will R-134a). Professionals don't use it because the EPA has not certified it for automotive use.


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*note mine was retrofitted to R-416A so not sure if it ok or not, but i will get a kit as i want R-134A now.

Just make sure to read the above precautions for you do it yourselfers.

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[mawrazen]

Oh, I shouldn't, Ok I will.

Short of rebuilding the whole AC system, go to wally world and get $35 retrofit kit. It comes w/ 2 cans of freon. The leaks are usually tolerable. Once you have the kit just pick up a can of freon and topoff the AC system innthe late spring and add when neccesary. The kit comes with a pressure gauge. Make sure you bleed the air out first! If it was charged with the old refrigerant you would want that old R-134 evacuated at a shop. But if your system wont turn on, I assume the refregerant has leaked out.

So its not G. W. BUSH'S fault for the hole in the ozone layer!

My Badd! R-134a is the new environmentally stuff. I should hae done more research on GOOGLE!

Dude. Pay a real mechanic to fix it for you! It should save you a lot of time off the the computer!

TIME = MONEY! even in CANADA!

Sorry, I just couldn't stop myself. Missed refilling my $4 perscription at Wally World by 5 Min. Forgive me!

 

[shamaal]

I'm not quite sure where to start, let me answer the questions as I see them.

The advice of the seasoned A/C techs in post #18 is sound, to convert from R12 to R134a requires flushing and vacuuming, etc. See G991's post on conversion for the same advice. R134a does not circulate mineral oil, it does circulate ester and PAG. Hence the need to change stuff and flush.

My experience is that for the cost of a conversion at an A/C place (>$1K) one can purchase all the tools and parts yourself and pick up some good knowledge that will impress your friends. BB's list in post #11 is a good place to start. If the system is opened the vacuum pump is a must.But then I've had some experience in the past with A/C.

R416 (FR12) is certified for use in cars by the EPA. It is classified as nonflammable, the butane is 2-4%, concentrations >5% are required for flammability. A lot of alarmist information about this some valid, some hype. As was pointed out, OEMs certify use of R134a in their vehicles, other blends may not be. Some of the states may be stinky about it also.

The switch on the accumulator controls the clutch on the compressor. When the system pressure is less than 24.5 psi the clutch is disengaged. When the pressure is greater than 43.5 psi the compressor clutch engages. The switch is screwed on to a schraeder valve, like on tires. It can be removed without discharging system, having said that there have been two instances this season of sticking valves. Running the compressor (jumpering) without oil for >30 seconds can damage it. This has nothing whatsoever to do with the fan clutch. When the fan clutch gets hot it gets stiff, when it gets stiff it turns. There should be a noticable difference between the clutch resistance when cold and hot. Eye protection is a must. Kudos for following that advice.

Charging the refrigerant through gas at the LP port is safe. Improper settings on manifold gauges can put high pressure to the can when charging. Pay attention and understand what is being done. There is a difference in the pressures when the system is at rest and when the compressor is running.

Lastly, the coolant thermostat operates at around 195 deg. Depends on the type you purhase. I've always felt the OEM thermostats were colder that the ones at Autozone.

Lastly, at a minimum, it sounds like a low charge. Diagnosis is difficult without a set of manifold gauges. Ask questions.