hub noise? diff?

[thebrakeman]

2006 Mountaineer 4.6L AWD Premier, 101,000 miles
We've had this truck since Aug 2010, 74,000 miles. As far as I know, all 4 hubs are original. All 3 diffs got new fluid around 58,000 miles. Trans serviced at 62,000 miles.

This started 2-3 days ago (per my wife). She told me today that (after thinking about it), a few days ago when engaging reverse and backing out of driveway, she heard a grind, and wondered if she'd hit a trash can or something. When she didn't see anything, and continued her errands. That's when she first started hearing noise/vibration at speed.

My diagnosing.
Truck runs fine, thru all 6 forward gears and reverse. No grinding that I've heard, nor hesitation. The noise I'm getting sounds like hub noise. When steering is on-center, slight noise at 30+mph, and increases frequency with speed. It's gets noticeably louder at 50mph.

Hub problems typically get louder at speed when swerving, loading up the offending bearing. That does happen here, but it's equally worse (worse than on-center) when veering left or right. Highly unusual for 2 bearings to go bad at the same time.
In addition, the noise is accompanied by significant vibration thru the floor (both feet), and can be felt slightly thru the steering.

Could 1 bad bearing have increase noise turning both directions? Would it have so much vibration?
Could this be something else (center diff?).
When I lock the center diff, the on-center noise stays the same, but the side-to-side noise isn't quite as bad (though still worse than on-center).

We are taking a camping trip in 2 weeks (towing 27ft trailer), and don't have much time to diagnose. I hate taking to the dealer until I rule out things I can do myself (like hubs).

 

[Flag Gibby]

I would say jack the front end up and check the play on the hubs on both sides and spin them in the air to listen for bearing noise. With potentially that many miles on the original hubs I would lean toward them as the problem, but I am with you the symptoms don't sound typical so I would also check the front driveshaft and CV joints. Also, since the differential locks and unlocks just fine and the vibration gets somewhat better when locked I doubt that it has anything to do with the problem.

 

[thebrakeman]

I just got in from checking some things. Jacked up 1 side at a time, and worked the tire from top to bottom, feeling for play. Feels rock solid. Grabbed the springs, tie-rods, driveshafts, etc, and jerked and pulled on them feeling for play. Everything feels great. Checked the brakes all around while I was in there, and rotated the tires. I'm actually surprised at how well the body and everything underneath is holding up, considering all these years in Michigan.

Flag Gibby,
Good points about the locking diff effects leaning toward that NOT being the problem.

I think I'm going to take to a shop I recently started using, and let him diagnose. I know that sometimes bad hubs won't always present as tire play. He was able to diagnose a hub issue on my car, when there was no play. Stay tuned.

 

[wickedtravelah]

I had no noise and the car rode fine. I did notice the front drivers side tire wearing faster on the outside and I always "felt" that the truck was favoring that side even though the alignment was true. My wife thought I was imagining things.

Long story short, my mechanic was able to listen to the wheel with some kind of doo-hickey stethoscope and said it didn't sound right even though all moving parts were solid. I changed out both front hub assemblies and now she runs smooth; there is a noticible difference.

 

[thebrakeman]

That's very interesting!
I've felt that the truck was pulling every so slightly to the right for over a year, even though the alignment is on, and I see no significant tire-wear pattern. Since this noise started (now that you mention it), I think it's been pulling a bit harder.
Thanks

 

[thebrakeman]

Back from the shop. Me driving with the mechanic shotgun, it took some time to get the noise (of course!). After he heard/felt it, he drove back to the shop. We put it on a hoist, and he spun the wheels while holding the spring. Both fronts and drivers' rear felt OK, but we could easily feel vibration coming thru the right rear.

Anyone ever had a vibration like this (including feeling it in the steering) that was solved by changing/rebuilding the rear hub & bearing?

 

[vipersinu2]

My awd 4.6 with 109,000 has the exact same problem. I did everything you said, I found nothing wrong. everything was tight and no play. I am going to wait until something breaks. Because I can not find anything wrong. Thought about changing bearing gonna wait until there is play in them.

 

[thebrakeman]

If I wasn't towing a 5000 lb camper across Michigan in 10 days, I might delay. But I don't want to risk breaking down on a trip with 11,000 lbs going down the road, and additional load on that (potentially) bad rear corner.

A front hub on my Mazda3 went bad, but wasn't presenting any end-play. This same technician diagnosed the bad hub (in this same way), and he was right (problem went away). So I think I'll trust him. I'll report back Tuesday/Wednesday.

 

[wickedtravelah]

If I wasn't towing a 5000 lb camper across Michigan in 10 days, I might delay. But I don't want to risk breaking down on a trip with 11,000 lbs going down the road, and additional load on that (potentially) bad rear corner.

A front hub on my Mazda3 went bad, but wasn't presenting any end-play. This same technician diagnosed the bad hub (in this same way), and he was right (problem went away). So I think I'll trust him. I'll report back Tuesday/Wednesday.

Better safe than sorry.... You'd replace them at some point, why not now? :exp:

I replaced the brake pads as well when I had everything off; I had about 40 % left and figured it would be prudent as I am heading out for a long trip as well.

 

[thebrakeman]

Thanks. Brakes still look good all around. Probably 60-70% remaining, and all 4 calipers seem to be sliding well on the pins. If the noise remains, I think I'll have the guy replace both fronts. I'm convinced that rear bearing is bad, but I'm not convinced its the primary source of the vibration, since it's coming strong thru the steering wheel, too.
I'll find out tonight.

 

[thebrakeman]

Yesterday, the mechanic finished the rear bearing rebuild. Noise remains, but only at expressway speeds. Interesting. He spent a couple hours on more diagnosing before I called him. Says he hates to admit defeat and wants to make it right. So I left the truck with him.

This afternoon when I call, he says he use some remote listening equipment on-road, and heard some noise on the driver's side. Got a new front hub an swapped it out. No change. Took the original front-drivers hub and put it on the front right. No change.

He didn't think it could be a diff problem before, but now he's looking at other things before he swaps out the more difficult driver's rear hub. Front and center diff fluid looks clean.....but rear diff fluid is dark. Unfortunately, can't crack it open without removing. So he's doing a bit more checking before making his recommendation to me. But I may be looking at a new/rebuilt rear diff. It seems to explain why I get the noise/vibration when swerving in either direction, and also why it can be felt thru the seat so well.

Talked to my wife again, and she was able to clarify that the noise she heard was more like something being dragged (not something being struck) when she put in reverse, and that it was definitely behind her.

 

[vipersinu2]

Try to remove front drive shaft. Heck I would even remove front cv axels and then test drive. Try to eliminate any front drive line components.

 

[vipersinu2]

How did u make out? We're u able to fix problem?

 

[Zieg95x]

Have you tried rotating your tires? They did that when I had a noise on my 06 xlt in the front left corner and it went away.

 

[thebrakeman]

Front axles/driveshafts: Wouldn't that lose diff fluid? How could I drive like that?

I rotated the tires front-to-rear while I was checking the brakes and things at home (before I took it to the shop). The tires all have the same amount of tread left. Rotating had no effect on the noise.

As of now, the trans shop did not feel that the noise was enough to conclusively say the diff is worth pulling. If it's the rear diff, it's not very bad yet, and if it's the rear diff, the noise will get more obvious/constant before any castostrophic problems.

So we're taking off Thursday with the camper for the weekend, and will continue to monitor.

 

[Flag Gibby]

I hate those little nagging noises/vibrations that are different, but not to a point to be able to definitively pinpoint the problem. Have a good vacation and hopefully you won't think about it too much.

 

[tedchou]

One of the ways to identify hub and bearing problem is to jack up the car, all four wheels. Step on the brake and shift gear to D, slowly release the brake to have wheels spin, and listen closely to noises of each wheel.
The reason is that more often than not, most explorers have no play at all when trying to move those wheels. When there is play meaning that your hub/bearing has been loose, you will not hear noises anymore.
Hub and bearing noises generally become louder along with speed. Noises from Axles, on the other hand, produces clicking noises when turning the steering wheel. One should notice grease leakage from boots.
The one missing component in your case is strut and its bushing, which can be told from tire wears, longer distance to stop, and etc... Bad struts will accelerate the deterioration of hub and bearings, which was exactly the thing that I experienced.
I recently changed both struts, sway bar links, and hub/bearings for my front wheels. The truck is now driving like new one, and all annoying noises disappeared.
Hope those helps!

 

[pjw73nh]

2006 Mountaineer 4.6L AWD Premier, 101,000 miles
....My diagnosing.
Truck runs fine, thru all 6 forward gears and reverse. No grinding that I've heard, nor hesitation. The noise I'm getting sounds like hub noise. When steering is on-center, slight noise at 30+mph, and increases frequency with speed. It's gets noticeably louder at 50mph.

Hub problems typically get louder at speed when swerving, loading up the offending bearing. That does happen here, but it's equally worse (worse than on-center) when veering left or right. Highly unusual for 2 bearings to go bad at the same time.
In addition, the noise is accompanied by significant vibration thru the floor (both feet), and can be felt slightly thru the steering.

Could 1 bad bearing have increase noise turning both directions? Would it have so much vibration?

Brake,

FWIW I have the same exact issue. 2008 LTD 4.6L 92k. I just shelled out $800 for tires yesterday (I needed them anyway), and I was hoping the issue would be resolved. Not so lucky.

I notice my sound (either side) a bit slower than yours (22-25 mph is when is starts). As with yours, slightly off center left, is noisy, slightly off center right, is noisy, and a slight "feel" in the wheel and floorboard.

I too am questioning 2 bearings at once. I tow a 5300 lb trailer about 1500 miles a year. Otherwise just a daily driver. I want to be sure I am not being fooled into doing front bearings when it is actually the rears.

I am going to ride in the back (hatch area) this weekend and see if I can ascertain if the back bearings are "throwing their sound" or not, just from riding back there.

Brake, your last post was 6-11-14. I was wondering if you have found anything further?

Thanks to all for any (further) input you may be able to provide..

Paul.../NH

 

[pjw73nh]

Well, I rode in the passenger seat and the rear hatch ares this weekend. The noise(s) certainly sound like they are NOT coming from the rear of the vehicle.

I have confirmed my earlier Dx.

My sounds (either side) start around 22-25 mph). I had the sides mixed up in my post above. Turning slightly off center RIGHT is buzzing, turning slightly off center left is a slightly different buzzing AND a very little buzz feel in the steering wheel and floorboard.

I ordered one Timken. I expect it this week. Unless something changes, I think I am going to start with the drivers front.

I've got the offset box end wrench. Am I going to need a hub puller or can I make due some other way?

Again, any suggestions/advice welcome.

Tnx

Paul.../NH

 

[Tech By Trade]

You will need a torque wrench and a 32mm socket. Soak the hub the night before with liquid wrench and it should pull apart easily. The bolts holding the assembly are the easy part, its that pig on the CV shaft that is tough.