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I know I need a tranny, BUT!

tidmarshsmiths5

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Well there are a whole host of reasons, most of which I don't know. A big one is engine tolerances. These engines were designed with 195 in mind. You will increase wear with an engine that isn't up to temp. You will increase engine wear. Will it blow up soon without a thermostat? I doubt it. Will it last as long as if it had been running 180+? Not a chance. Without a thermostat your engine might not even get out of open loop mode, and seriously hurt your fuel mileage. Even if you do get warm enough for closed loop, you will still have a slight drop in fuel mileage. I know you live in the south, but I'm guessing there are days you need to defrost your window on a cold morning. Good luck without a thermostat. You could go with a 160 thermostat, but you would be wasting your time. 180 is for those that want a little buffer for really hot days.

So, I'm looking online...how can one say, "OE 195" and another "OE 198"...I think RockAuto even has "OE 190s"...

The local big box auto store has 198 only in the MotoRads.

I did get the fan clutch and radiator cap - I think the fan clutch is the real issue from the volumes of articles I read on these 1st Gens. Soon to find out.
 



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Turdle

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A lower temp thermostat will remain open, not closing long enough to hold the water in the radiator for heat exchange. Your engine will run cooler overall, especially under heavy load, with a 195 thermostat installed. :thumbsup:

I do not like the "fail open" thermostats either. Avoid that choice.
 






2stroke

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False. Your engine will always run cooler with a 180 vs a 195, and will run even cooler without a thermostat. I'm not sure how that myth keeps popping up.
 






tidmarshsmiths5

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False. Your engine will always run cooler with a 180 vs a 195, and will run even cooler without a thermostat. I'm not sure how that myth keeps popping up.

Well, let me tell you...

I figured I would pop the new thermostat for kicks and giggles (did it yesterday and it was a pain but not so much (hint, my nephew has smaller hands and got the last bolt in) - plus, I really like being aggravated by Ford Engineers - why oh why oh why put that darn bolt there...and to make it real fun, let's run a wire right in the way.

Driving down the road, it runs between the R and the M...sitting in the driveway got it to more M...and then run that A/C and you guessed it, she gets to the edge of M...not quite A but to the edge to make me uncomfortable.

Screw that 198...I will order the 180 from RockAuto and when I feel like really messing around, read WHEN ITS MUCH COOLER in the AM, I will tackle these parts together...

I'm sitting here wishing I just left the thermostat out. It gets hot enough in that old Ford that it will defrost the windows just fine when I take off.

15 minutes to get the 3 bolts out, two minutes put two back in and an hour of slicing, cursing and then just removing a bunch of stuff to put that last bolt in - even went and bought a brand new knuckle for a 1/4 inch with a little two inch extension with a knuckle ratchet...I was going to strip it out if I kept doing what I was doing. The new little knuckle by the way - too big to twist it around - it kept hitting the tensioner.

WORD TO THE WISE - just take the stupid belt tensioner off...I'm glad you other cats can do magic with getting that stupid bolt in there but not me...I bet the poor guys at Autozone are still laughing at me for sounding like such a moron in there describing how good I'd feel hammering the truck...
 






Turdle

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False. Your engine will always run cooler with a 180 vs a 195, and will run even cooler without a thermostat. I'm not sure how that myth keeps popping up.

Well, in my experience, pulling the same trailer, the proper thermostat runs cooler. I had a failsafe pop open and temps really spiked when towing and running ac. Once I got a genuine ford thermostat in place no more high spikes. I use a scangauge to monitor coolant temperature. This is my experience and what I believe to be fact. Myth or not.
 






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It has to be the proper wobble socket, the one with a ball, not he knuckle. If you have that, then its about a 2 minute job.
 






Centaurious

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On an old V8 engine the coolant circulated slowly enough that you could get away with pulling the thermostat. On the newer I4 engines you will cook them without a thermostat.

BMW cars with the straight 6 engine can destroy the head beyond repair if the coolant bottle cracks, crazy but true. They have NO tolerance for air in the cooling system.

I think the Ford radiator cap is an 18# not a 16# to 18# like most auto parts store brands and it matters on these V6 engines.

If you want to test and see if your transmission is causing the overheating, hook an external cooler to BOTH transmission lines and bypass the coil in the radiator. not a great idea for long term but you can change it to inline later.

Good luck
 






2stroke

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On an old V8 engine the coolant circulated slowly enough that you could get away with pulling the thermostat. On the newer I4 engines you will cook them without a thermostat.

BMW cars with the straight 6 engine can destroy the head beyond repair if the coolant bottle cracks, crazy but true. They have NO tolerance for air in the cooling system.

I think the Ford radiator cap is an 18# not a 16# to 18# like most auto parts store brands and it matters on these V6 engines.

If you want to test and see if your transmission is causing the overheating, hook an external cooler to BOTH transmission lines and bypass the coil in the radiator. not a great idea for long term but you can change it to inline later.

Good luck

And you are basing any of this on what? Sure, on a sealed system, a cracked coolant reservoir means you loose coolant. Luckily these explorers are old school radiator with an overflow. The stock radiator cap is 16# (14#-18#), and no, it doesn't make that big a difference. It only affects the boiling point of the coolant.
 






CDW6212R

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Fix the engine cooling first, then the trans may be okay. An extra external trans cooler will help the trans. I have a spare 93 A4LD if you are close enough to come after it, with 112,600 miles on it(never rebuilt).

I like the Failsafe thermostats, because I had two popped open from overheating in my SOHC. Hitting 270 and 282 those times, I was able to top off and drive it each time(electric fan quite running and began those issues). The coolant was very cool with the thermostat failed open, in November and January then. I swapped the thermostat out quickly both times, but it ran not much above 100 degrees in January. I had a ScanGauge monitoring the vehicle constantly for several years then. I wasn't towing, but delivering mail with the Explorer then.

A new thermostat or cap, or water pump can be bad or not cool well right out of the box. Be sure with those new parts that things are improved or not overheating. If it is, then keep in mind that the new part could be another problem.

Add some Water Weter to the coolant to help heat transfer, it does work enough to see a change on the dash gauge. It does cost $10 now though.

Oh BTW, the oldest Explorers had 3.27's typically, and the later trucks with 3.73's got equal or better fuel mileage. They also tow much better and might help with coolant temps. I had a 91 and a 93, the 93 with 3.73's got better fuel mileage on a trip.
 






Centaurious

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And you are basing any of this on what? Sure, on a sealed system, a cracked coolant reservoir means you loose coolant. Luckily these explorers are old school radiator with an overflow. The stock radiator cap is 16# (14#-18#), and no, it doesn't make that big a difference. It only affects the boiling point of the coolant.

A related principle, Newton's law of cooling, states that the rate of heat loss of a body is proportional to the difference in temperatures between the body and its surroundings, or environment. The law is
where
∆Q = h * A * ∆T * ∆t
ΔQ = heat input or heat lost, J
h = overall heat transfer coefficient, W/(m2K)
A = heat transfer surface area, m2
ΔT = difference in temperature between the solid surface and surrounding fluid area, K
Δt = time period, s
Therefore, to increase cooling (make delta Q go up), you have to increase 1 of the other 4. We cannot change the overall heat transfer coefficient, other than changing the type of fluid used for coolant. So that means to increase cooling, either increase the surface area of heat transfer (radiator cause you can't change the cooling flow through the block), or increase the difference in temp (which can only be done by lowering the temp of the coolant or raising the temp of the block or both), or increase the time period for the heat transfer to take place (ie slow down the coolant flow).
So, a high flow water pump would decrease the time period for heat transfer to take place. And without increasing the surface area to overcome the lack of time, the overall heat transfer would go down (ie not cool as much, which could lead to overheating)


Don't you think the engineers and designers would love to reduce the size of the radiators in cars if they could simply circulate the coolant faster?
 






2stroke

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So I take it you are another person who has never actually tried it? While the law is correct, there is only so much a radiator will cool. Ever rode a dirtbike? They don't have radiator fans or thermostats. You need all the air flow and coolant flow you can get to keep them cool, and still have small enough radiators. Some people install radiator fans for slow speed riding, but they add weight. Manufacturers don't use thermostats because they block coolant flow too much. You can add them, but the first time you push the bike hard it overheats. Thermostats will ALWAYS cause an engine to run warmer than without one. I've tried it on all kinds of engines from little i4's to chevy small blocks.
 






CDW6212R

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Applying physics only works if you do it properly. Laws of physics don't apply in limited amounts, neglecting any factors. Physics doesn't fail, but not considering all factors does fail. That's as nice and diplomatic as I can be.

High flow water pumps do not increase coolant temps, they reduce them. Only if something else is going on will logic not seem to apply.

Larger radiators will cool better, but any example showing the opposite has other problems. I too believe leaving out a thermostat will bring down temps to lower(and wild large swings of) temps. But there are known examples of coolant temps shooting way up without a thermostat. Something else is going on to cause that to happen, but those are rare examples and those should be dealt with uniquely, to figure out why.

Don't condemn all kinds of logic from odd examples. Rely on common sense and learn to apply physics well.
 






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Just to throw this in & fuel the coolant debate fire;

A while back I installed a coolant bypass filter (you can find it in my signature). You can look up diagrams online on how to properly install them in a bypass mode. When I installed mine, I also put shut-off valves on the supply & return lines. My reasoning for this was 2-fold. If my radiator or something else starts leaking and I need a quick fix, I have a container of Bars Stop Leak in my toolbox and I wouldn't want the filter filtering that out (that's actually the original reason I installed it). The other reason is if my heater core starts leaking, I can shut that entire loop down until I get it fixed.

Being that valves can get crusty/sticky, I like to cycle them each time I have the hood up, just to make sure they still move freely and there's no leaks.

Several weeks back, I needed to return a trailer that was on loan to me, a big SOB with tandem axles and huge beams, you could easily park a car on it. I didn't have to tow it far but I didn't want to risk any issues so I checked fluids and did a once-over on the Explorer. I hook it up and get down my driveway with it and it's not long before I see the temp gauge get up to AL where it usually sits around N most of the time. It's climbing fast and I'm spending more time looking at it than I am at the road, wondering if I gotta shut the engine off real quick. The gauge goes back down. Another mile or two down the road and it starts climbing rapidly again. Something's wrong, the trailer wouldn't make the gauge climb that fast. I finally deliver the trailer without issue and scurry back home, wondering what happened. Couple days after that, I'm driving empty and the gauge does it again.

I spend a few days worrying if my new thermostat died or if there's air in the cooling system or... until I pop the hood again. I had twisted one of the valves for the heater hose and forgot to twist it back. It was the heat side coming out of the lower intake manifold while the suction side was still open.

Now, if you've ever pulled the lower intake manifold or done cooling system work, you'd agree with me that blocking flow to the heater core shouldn't affect engine temperature. But it did. I don't know if it created some weird feedback flow, being that the suction side was still open or what. Really weird, scary and confusing. All is fine with that valve open again, like nothing happened. I have no theory or explanation as to what was going on.


My point in all of this is that there's more at play than surface area and speed of flow. It's beyond my realm of understanding but that's fine, I have faith in the engineers.
 






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Glad we got that out of the way, now we can go back to why you SHOULD always have a thermostat in a car or truck.
 






tidmarshsmiths5

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Fix the engine cooling first, then the trans may be okay. An extra external trans cooler will help the trans. I have a spare 93 A4LD if you are close enough to come after it, with 112,600 miles on it(never rebuilt).

I like the Failsafe thermostats, because I had two popped open from overheating in my SOHC. Hitting 270 and 282 those times, I was able to top off and drive it each time(electric fan quite running and began those issues). The coolant was very cool with the thermostat failed open, in November and January then. I swapped the thermostat out quickly both times, but it ran not much above 100 degrees in January. I had a ScanGauge monitoring the vehicle constantly for several years then. I wasn't towing, but delivering mail with the Explorer then.

A new thermostat or cap, or water pump can be bad or not cool well right out of the box. Be sure with those new parts that things are improved or not overheating. If it is, then keep in mind that the new part could be another problem.

Add some Water Weter to the coolant to help heat transfer, it does work enough to see a change on the dash gauge. It does cost $10 now though.

Oh BTW, the oldest Explorers had 3.27's typically, and the later trucks with 3.73's got equal or better fuel mileage. They also tow much better and might help with coolant temps. I had a 91 and a 93, the 93 with 3.73's got better fuel mileage on a trip.

Knoxville is only three hours...that sounds like a good A4LD (lower mileage - I could have it rebuilt and pop it in). What did you replace the A4LD with?
 






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If you are willing to do a tranny swap, the best/easiest is an m5od-r1. It bolts right up to the 4.0 and then its just a matter of getting the clutch set up. If you want an auto, you can get an adapter plate an run a GM 700r4 which would be absolutely perfect. You might need a special flex plate (maybe not) and a new torque converter. The 700r4 is all mechanical, no electric 3-4 shift or electric torque converter lockup like the a4ld.
 






CDW6212R

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Knoxville is only three hours...that sounds like a good A4LD (lower mileage - I could have it rebuilt and pop it in). What did you replace the A4LD with?

Sorry for the slow reply, I was out of town for a week or so.

The A4LD I have is from the 93 Limited that I took apart to rebuild my 99. The trans worked well, likely never rebuilt, and the cluster shows 112,622 miles I think. I put the TransGo valve body kit in it when I first bought that truck in 1998 with 75k miles on it. I also installed a longer modulator valve pin, a rare trick that I learned from a trans builder here back then(it's about 1/8" longer than stock). Night,
 






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