I think it finally died

[F SANE IL]

So, I'm pretty sure the motor is gone. After messing around with it for a while, doing so much research and checking everything, I give up.

The oil light is now on all the time, the motor starts and runs but chatters, ticks and clicks at the top, like the oil it not getting up there at all. I think at this point maybe there is no oil pressure due to main bearings and thus there is no oil at the top.

Any thoughts from anyone before i go hunting for another motor? Also, any suggestions on places to find another motor with around 70k miles and reasonable price? I keep seeing motors on Ebay with 150k miles for $1800 are these people smoking something good to set the price that high? I can drive as far as south PA to pickup a good motor and thinking of putting it myself.

Lastly, any advise on removing/installing motor? Any videos, diagrams or write ups appreciated.

Edit: 2006 Ford Explorer EB v6 4.0L 4x4

 

[Flag Gibby]

What are the DTC's that are throwing the dash indicators? I would put money on broken timing chain guides since they are a known issue. I have seen a few used 4.0 motors on ebay with low mileage (search "ford 4.0 sohc engine") and the shipping isn't that bad on them, just remember that it can be any 4th gen explorer/mountaineer 4.0 up to 2008 that you can drop back into it but the timing chain guides will need to be inspected and or replaced before you put it back in to be on the safe side.

 

[F SANE IL]

What are the DTC's that are throwing the dash indicators? I would put money on broken timing chain guides since they are a known issue. I have seen a few used 4.0 motors on ebay with low mileage (search "ford 4.0 sohc engine") and the shipping isn't that bad on them, just remember that it can be any 4th gen explorer/mountaineer 4.0 up to 2008 that you can drop back into it but the timing chain guides will need to be inspected and or replaced before you put it back in to be on the safe side.

The thing is that I actually had a shop swap out the timing chains for all new stuff. The old guides were torn to shreds. I have no codes, just the oil light.

 

[Explorer_PL]

I just replaced my 4.6 after 200k miles (although I did not have to after all, it was misdiagnosed by 2 shops, all I needed was a torque converter).

I found an 07 4.6 with 55k miles for 1,595, they originally wanted 1,800 but I negotiated it down, including shipping, no core.
It came cleaned, repainted, wrapped in plastic, and on a pallet, very well delivered.

http://www.swengines.com

I think I got the last low mileage 4.6 in us, as I could not find anything else, most of them had around 150k miles, and yes, these people are smoking something since they wanted also 1,500 for those.
The delivery time was long, few weeks as they had to locate the engine (they have multiple warehouses) and then inspect it and ship it.
Also, when they cleaned it, they bent one of the tabs on my camshaft phasers and it was throwing a code 0340. I found it and fixed it but was not happy about that. I am trying to get some refund for that, but their warranty dept is not responding to my emails which pisses me off.
Otherwise the motor is very strong.
I asked for a VIN # from the donor vehicle and the mileage checked out. I was limited to just 06-08engines since just those fit my truck.
Not sure if you would do the swap yourself, or have a shop do it.
The labor calls for 20 hrs, so that's a lot. I did it with a friend of mine, and it took us 12 hrs the first time, and just 7-8 hrs the second time (when I pulled it out again to change the TC).

Hope that helps.

 

[F SANE IL]

I just replaced my 4.6 after 200k miles (although I did not have to after all, it was misdiagnosed by 2 shops, all I needed was a torque converter).

I found an 07 4.6 with 55k miles for 1,595, they originally wanted 1,800 but I negotiated it down, including shipping, no core.
It came cleaned, repainted, wrapped in plastic, and on a pallet, very well delivered.

http://www.swengines.com

I think I got the last low mileage 4.6 in us, as I could not find anything else, most of them had around 150k miles, and yes, these people are smoking something since they wanted also 1,500 for those.
The delivery time was long, few weeks as they had to locate the engine (they have multiple warehouses) and then inspect it and ship it.
Also, when they cleaned it, they bent one of the tabs on my camshaft phasers and it was throwing a code 0340. I found it and fixed it but was not happy about that. I am trying to get some refund for that, but their warranty dept is not responding to my emails which pisses me off.
Otherwise the motor is very strong.
I asked for a VIN # from the donor vehicle and the mileage checked out. I was limited to just 06-08engines since just those fit my truck.
Not sure if you would do the swap yourself, or have a shop do it.
The labor calls for 20 hrs, so that's a lot. I did it with a friend of mine, and it took us 12 hrs the first time, and just 7-8 hrs the second time (when I pulled it out again to change the TC).

Hope that helps.

Very good info, definitely helps. I still have small hope in this motor, but don't think its worth chasing that dream (dead oil pump) only because its a bunch of work and very slim chance it will do the trick.

As for negotiating, i think this is why they have them priced so high. They figure you're going to bargain and they want to get say 1500 for it, so they make you think you got a sweet deal coming from 1800 to 1500. Also, I was thinking of buying a crashed truck from places like CoPart and getting myself an engine/trans in the process then selling off the rest on the forum, but the work involved in parting out a car is too much for me.

Lastly, the work - I think I'll be doing this myself with a friend who's a VW mechanic. I've swapped a motor on my 1996 Camaro when I had it, but I'm sure this one is way different. How did you pull yours, from the top or bottom? On the Camaro, i ended up taking out the Kmember bolts, shock bolts and picking the car up with a cherry picker. On this monster Explorer, I'm thinking that will be too much.

 

[F SANE IL]

What are the DTC's that are throwing the dash indicators? I would put money on broken timing chain guides since they are a known issue. I have seen a few used 4.0 motors on ebay with low mileage (search "ford 4.0 sohc engine") and the shipping isn't that bad on them, just remember that it can be any 4th gen explorer/mountaineer 4.0 up to 2008 that you can drop back into it but the timing chain guides will need to be inspected and or replaced before you put it back in to be on the safe side.

By the way, if i was to get another motor, I'm definitely going to inspect/change the chains with ford OEM parts. Do you know off hand if places like Autozone rent the ford cam tools?

 

[Flag Gibby]

Pulling these motors is really not that much different than the camaro, just more components and sensors to unplug/remove before it comes out. I believe that autozone does rent out the tools you would need, but I would call and verify first.
I would put a scanner on the vehicle and see what the oil pressure is at and I would also drain the fluid and pull the filter and see what kind of metal flakes you have floating around, the noise could just be the valves on the top end. If the compression is still good on the cylinders and the oil pressure is bad then it could just need the oil pump changed out and that is a lot easier than a whole new engine since you just did the guides/chains on it. Which, the oil pump could have gotten damaged from all the junk floating around from the broken guides.

 

[Explorer_PL]

Not sure if you read this

http://www.explorerforum.com/forums/showthread.php?p=3425012#post3425012

but I pulled mine up, no way it would come down between the frame and axle.

I had to remove the intake to get to the top 2 transmission bolts (7 total).
Remove wheels and liners as that helps getting to the exhaust manifolds and flywheel/converter bolts (4).
I bought an engine hoist from Harbor freight for $ 99 after some coupons and discounts down from $ 299. Renting would be $ 100 for a weekend.
Biggest problem was PS pump and AC compressor. After removing the 10 mm nuts, they would not come off those long studs: aluminum and steel. We ended up puling the engine out with them and fighting with it outside, and it was still a major headache, we almost had to cut the studs off, but nobody had replacement bolts in stock.
Of course remove the radiator and the fan.
I also replaced the engine mounts.

 

[F SANE IL]

Not sure if you read this

http://www.explorerforum.com/forums/showthread.php?p=3425012#post3425012

but I pulled mine up, no way it would come down between the frame and axle.

I had to remove the intake to get to the top 2 transmission bolts (7 total).
Remove wheels and liners as that helps getting to the exhaust manifolds and flywheel/converter bolts (4).
I bought an engine hoist from Harbor freight for $ 99 after some coupons and discounts down from $ 299. Renting would be $ 100 for a weekend.
Biggest problem was PS pump and AC compressor. After removing the 10 mm nuts, they would not come off those long studs: aluminum and steel. We ended up puling the engine out with them and fighting with it outside, and it was still a major headache, we almost had to cut the studs off, but nobody had replacement bolts in stock.
Of course remove the radiator and the fan.
I also replaced the engine mounts.

Thank you for this. I will definitely keep this in mind.

 

[F SANE IL]

Pulling these motors is really not that much different than the camaro, just more components and sensors to unplug/remove before it comes out. I believe that autozone does rent out the tools you would need, but I would call and verify first.
I would put a scanner on the vehicle and see what the oil pressure is at and I would also drain the fluid and pull the filter and see what kind of metal flakes you have floating around, the noise could just be the valves on the top end. If the compression is still good on the cylinders and the oil pressure is bad then it could just need the oil pump changed out and that is a lot easier than a whole new engine since you just did the guides/chains on it. Which, the oil pump could have gotten damaged from all the junk floating around from the broken guides.

Good point. I thought about this. I checked compression prior to doing the timing chains and it was 120 on each cyl. I'll drain the oil and open the filter to check it thoroughly. I hope it's just the oil pump, i just figured they can't go bad since they are mechanical and not electric. So it the motor spins, the pump rotates. That was my thought process.

 

[2010Explorer]

I just bought my 2010 4.0 from LKQ with 51K $1250 shipped to my door. You can't beat that with a stick. It had to cost 250 to ship it from Canada to my house for sure.
I stripped dead engine down to check it out and give me more room to disconnect everything.

Put in new one with intake off so I could get to everything,

 

[F SANE IL]

I just bought my 2010 4.0 from LKQ with 51K $1250 shipped to my door. You can't beat that with a stick. It had to cost 250 to ship it from Canada to my house for sure.
I stripped dead engine down to check it out and give me more room to disconnect everything.

Put in new one with intake off so I could get to everything,

How did you get it so cheap! ? I've been on ebay day and night, LKQ is the most expensive of them all. I'll have to check it out again. I'd definitely go with 1200$ motor at 51k miles. How true are the miles?

 

[Explorer_PL]

How about this

http://www.ebay.com/itm/2005-2006-2...er&hash=item463d15f5e3&vxp=mtr#ht_2015wt_1362

 

[Explorer_PL]

Remanufactured long blocks are about $ 2,500

https://www.sandjengines.com/rebuil...4OHCLB-2?subModel=_&productApplicationID=1717

 

[2010Explorer]

I got the VIN # and ran a carfax on it. Yep 51K.
09/24/2010
Independent Source VEHICLE MANUFACTURED AND SHIPPED TO DEALER
10/06/2010
Independent Source VEHICLE MANUFACTURED AND SHIPPED TO DEALER
11/10/2010 STONEHAM, MA
Motor Vehicle Dept. REGISTRATION EVENT/RENEWAL
11/26/2010 STONEHAM, MA
2
Motor Vehicle Dept. TITLE (Title #:BJ549643) (Lien Reported)
03/02/2012 WINCHESTER, MA
Motor Vehicle Dept. REGISTRATION EVENT/RENEWAL
03/16/2012 WINCHESTER, MA
25,267
Motor Vehicle Dept. TITLE (Title #:BL12540) (Lien Reported)
08/06/2013 WINCHESTER, MA
Motor Vehicle Dept. REGISTRATION EVENT/RENEWAL
05/22/2014 MA
Auto Insurance Source VEHICLE REPORTED AS TOTAL LOSS
VEHICLE LOSS CAUSED BY COLLISION
10/16/2014 MA
51,444
Motor Vehicle Dept. TITLE (Title #:BP158327)
SALVAGE

 

[Flag Gibby]

Good point. I thought about this. I checked compression prior to doing the timing chains and it was 120 on each cyl. I'll drain the oil and open the filter to check it thoroughly. I hope it's just the oil pump, i just figured they can't go bad since they are mechanical and not electric. So it the motor spins, the pump rotates. That was my thought process.

Yes, but check it again now since it is making all kinds of noise on the top end. 120 does indicate good cylinders and pistions/rings so if that is still the case it is possible that it is just the pickup or the oil pump that is the issue, but like I said get a scanner on there and find out what it really is. Also, it wouldn't hurt to pull the oil pressure switch and make sure that it is not plugged or anything (I doubt it based on the noises you are hearing on the top end, but it doesn't hurt to completely rule it out). My thoughts are to not worry about another motor until you get to the bottom of the issue with this one since it sounds like a relatively simple and much cheaper fix. Also, mechanical oil pumps do wear out and can gradually lose pressure over time particularly if large pieces of plastic/metal were floating around in the system at one point.
Edit: If it is the oil pump you want to get it fixed ASAP before the lifters get worn too bad from the lack of oil.

 

[F SANE IL]

Yes, but check it again now since it is making all kinds of noise on the top end. 120 does indicate good cylinders and pistions/rings so if that is still the case it is possible that it is just the pickup or the oil pump that is the issue, but like I said get a scanner on there and find out what it really is. Also, it wouldn't hurt to pull the oil pressure switch and make sure that it is not plugged or anything (I doubt it based on the noises you are hearing on the top end, but it doesn't hurt to completely rule it out). My thoughts are to not worry about another motor until you get to the bottom of the issue with this one since it sounds like a relatively simple and much cheaper fix. Also, mechanical oil pumps do wear out and can gradually lose pressure over time particularly if large pieces of plastic/metal were floating around in the system at one point.
Edit: If it is the oil pump you want to get it fixed ASAP before the lifters get worn too bad from the lack of oil.

Planning on doing the following upcoming weekend:
1. Check compression
2. Read DTC
3. Not sure if I can rent oil pressure tool, will try and check. BTW, where's the sending unit? Driver wheel well or under intake?
4. Open valve covers and inspect chains and guides again.
5. Remove oil pan, (can this be done without picking up engine?) and inspect pickup and pump once I remove both. Also check whatever drives the pump. I'm thinking I can re-use oil pan gasket as it's been changed when they did my chains.

Anything else I should check while I'm in there?
I'll report back with findings before ordering parts or engine. Hoping for the best.

 

[F SANE IL]

How about this

http://www.ebay.com/itm/2005-2006-2007-2008-FORD-EXPLORER-MOUNTAINEER-RANGER-4-0L-ENGINE-53K-MILES-/301672560099?fits=Year%3A2008%7CModel%3AExplorer&hash=item463d15f5e3&vxp=mtr#ht_2015wt_1362

The first link you posted - I've seen this engine on here for a long time and it keeps throwing me off cause it's actually from a 2005, so it won't work for me. The second link, I've seen rebuilt motors on ebay and also for $2500 with unlimited mile warranty. This will be my backup option. I've panned this out like this.....
1. Try to fix engine last time with Gibby's suggestions
2. If option 1 fails, buy used motor.
3. If I sell my second bike and all the HID projectors I have left from my old business, then buy rebuilt.

I did find that there's a motor on LKQ official site with 71k miles in Ohio and another low mile motor in PA. Both fairly close on east coast here.

Thanks for the links though.

 

[Flag Gibby]

Planning on doing the following upcoming weekend:
1. Check compression
2. Read DTC
3. Not sure if I can rent oil pressure tool, will try and check. BTW, where's the sending unit? Driver wheel well or under intake?
4. Open valve covers and inspect chains and guides again.
5. Remove oil pan, (can this be done without picking up engine?) and inspect pickup and pump once I remove both. Also check whatever drives the pump. I'm thinking I can re-use oil pan gasket as it's been changed when they did my chains.

Anything else I should check while I'm in there?
I'll report back with findings before ordering parts or engine. Hoping for the best.

I believe that most code readers will give you the readout from the oil pressure switch (what ford calls it) that is located on the drivers side front of the engine block ( see part 9278 image: http://www.fordparts.com/Commerce/C...itSearch=1&keyword=oil pressure switch#Search ) or autozone rents out an oil pressure tester. The pan can be dropped without removing the engine in order to inspect and replace the oil pump and inspect the other lower oil pump assembly parts (see image here: http://www.fordparts.com/Commerce/C...Explorer&initSearch=1&keyword=oil pump#Search ). This may also help you decide if the oil pump is any good. http://www.ehow.com/how_7833413_repair-oil-pump.html I cannot find a rebuild kit for the oil pump so a new standard flow will run you $90 with a high flow at about $130.

 

[Explorer_PL]

I was going to do oil pressure check on mine before replacing, never got to it. But on 4.6 it's on the driver side by the oil filter. I was going to install a T to reconnect the sending unit and then add an actual oil pressure gauge for my benefit.