Jefe's 700R4 swap | Page 9 | Ford Explorer Forums - Serious Explorations

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Jefe's 700R4 swap

I got tired of the computer deciding when my 5R55E transmission should shift, since it hadn't a clue with all the mods I've done so I decided It was time for a change. The two choices were a manual, or a 700R4 for a lower crawl ratio. I love having an auto in LA traffic (and Its grown on me wheeling) so I figured I'd be the first to put a 700R4 in a 2nd gen. :)

All my pics are here, and I'll link the important ones to the thread.

I grabbed the two Advance Adapters parts (4.0 to 700R4, 700R4 to t-case) back in Feb for a great deal, and waited for some more cash to come around to buy the 700R4. I got the 700R4 (Level II) from Bowtie Overdrives, along with their TV system, 1800 rpm stall torque converter, dip stick, and install kit.

The trans arrives:
DCP_4478.jpg


A few weeks before I put the trans in i decided to install the TV linkage. Somewhere between '91-'94 and 2000 the throttle body linkage changed size, so I got to modify it to fit Bowtie's TV setup. I figured since was modifying anyway I mine as well upgrade and so I threw in a BBK TB.

You can see where i ground the linkage down:
DSC00115.jpg


On another weekend I hacked up my center console and installed the B&M Hammer shifter. It sat a little low sitting on the floor, so I welded up a sub-frame for it out of 1" sq. tube. I plan to glass the cover in with the center console so it looks factory. (anyone want to show me how to glass?)

Part way installed:
SANY0017.jpg


The next step was to throw in the transmission in a weekend and hope everything else went smoothly since this is still my daily driver.

Friday night (5 hrs):
The first job was to get the control arms from the SFA out of the way, along with its bracketry:
SANY0001.jpg

SANY0004.jpg


Next, getting ready to take the t-case and transmission out:
SANY0005.jpg

SANY0006.jpg


Saturday (15 hrs):
With help, and a very tall floor jack (or a bunch of bricks :rolleyes: ) remove t-case and transmission. Compare transmisions (AA tailshaft housing was installed previously, and the 700R4 was built with the AA output shaft):
SANY0012.jpg


Bolt AA adapter to engine:
SANY0014.jpg


Bolt adapter to torque converter and install:
I had to grind down the three bolts in order to get them flush w/ the adapter. Not sure if AA dropped the ball or what.
SANY0013.jpg


Bolt up trans:
SANY0015.jpg


Bolt up t-case:
SANY0016.jpg


Connect TV linkage:
SANY0022.jpg


Reroute cooler lines. I used rubber for now. I plan to replace with either braided stainless or hard lines. I had ordered the Bowtie overdrives lines, but they aren't long enough to reach the drivers side tank of the stock radiator, nor are they the right fittings for the radiator.

Sunday (10 hrs):
Wire up shifter. I brought the wires that went to the shift position switch on the 5R through the same hole as the shift cable. By rewraping the wire harness correctly, i didn't have to extend any wires, which was nice.
Wire up torque converter harness. I got bowties harness w/ manual lockup switch, and replaced my shifter handle with one that has a switch. so now I can lock the converter up when i'm climbing in 3rd gear. It works great.

Connect shifter, fill trans and start engine w/o exhaust Y-pipe to get neighbors attention :D

Modify exhaust. I had to crush the pre-cat on the passenger side in order to get the Y-pipe to fit. The O2 sensor on that side is fine. The O2 sensor on the other side clears the adapter plate by a 1/32", so others may need to grind the adapter to get it to fit. I figured I'd then drive it to an exhaust shop and have them remake my Y-pipe to fit better. However I found out that for such a new vehicle the O2 sensors and pre-cats have to be exact stock distances down the pipe to follow guidlines so no one wanted to help me there. I even talked with the local guy for a good 30 mins coming up with crazy ideas to get it to work, like remoting the oil filter and taking the exhaust around the outside of the frame rail. I ended up just using the tube that AA suplies to extend the Y-pipe so that the cats would bolt up sqaure and clear the trans. I may get to have fun when I need to smog this thing :rolleyes:

exhaust pics:
SANY0024.jpg

SANY0033.jpg

SANY0025.jpg


I know I've left out many details, so if anyone has any questions, ask away.
 



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I installed a switch between the relay and the tranny of the torque converter wiring so I can dissengage it. If your using the bowtie wiring you shoulod be able to do the same.
 



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Diff Whack Daddy said:
I installed a switch between the relay and the tranny of the torque converter wiring so I can dissengage it. If your using the bowtie wiring you shoulod be able to do the same.
Yes I could do that. But most of the time I do want it to auto lock in 4th, I just want it to have a delay. The regular valve body had this built into the hydraulics, but the manual valve body wants to lockup the instant it shifts to 4th. I'll research the engine vacuum switch and see what I can come up with.
 






Isn't it wired right now so that when pressure is read at 4th gear that it then electronically locks the converter (that lockup kit that is put into the VB)?

If so, why not build a small circuit that would delay the lockup. Using a relay or two and a capacitor you could make it delay for a few seconds. I'm currently using relays and a cap to delay the Electric fan from turning on for 5 seconds after the converter unlocks.

If I remember the wiring correctly (of the lockup kit that is in the 700r4) when 12V is applied w/in the transmission AND the transmission is in 4th gear the 12v supplied from outside the transmission is sent to lockup the converter. In that case you would want to add something to interupt the 12v between the 4th gear detection and the lockup of the converter..

Here is how I envision the circuit..
the 12v source from the inside of the the trans (12v when in 4th gear) goes to a relay..
That Normally Closed output goes to a capacitor (38,000 MFD is about a 5 second delay so you want smaller). Also on the positive of the Cap is a wire that goes to another relay... On this relay you have normaly Open side going back into the transmission..

The flow would be when the converter is not locked up the 1st relay is not energized so the normally closed side would pass 12V to a capacitor (acts like a small battery) which also powers a 2nd relay. The 2nd relay while energized is in the "closed" state and does not pass anything.

When the converter locks the 1st relay is powered which then breaks the connection to the capacitor. The capacitor continues to charge the 2nd relay until it runs out of power and then the 2nd relay is no longer powered. When the 2nd relay is no longer powered the normally open side of the relay send the 12v to the transmision to lock the converter.

I can draw it out if that doesn't make sense.. AND this all relies on the interal 12v circuit in the transmission being setup so you can interupt the 12v between the 4th gear sensing and the converter lockup. If the 12V from the outside can't be interupted between the 2 parts then this won't work.

~Mark
 






I agree with maniak. Mine locks up as soon as it shifts to overdrive as well. I don't think it is a valve body function so much as an electrical control. I think you just notice it more now as you are manually shifting it to overdrive and that could be at a different time than it normally would with the TV cable input.
 






It just occured to me that the vacuum switch inline with the 12v signal to the trans would work too (I think someone mentioned it in this thread too)..

under light load it would lock the converter right away.. But under heavy load it wouldn't lock until the load lessened.

This wouldn't take care of the problem of locking quickly (sounds like its more of an issue with a manual VB) but it would take care of the big RPM drop as your trying to accelerate quickly by keeping 4th gear unlocked while you are under heavy acceleration.

~Mark
 






Offroad testing was a complete success. Best offroading mod I've done since throwing in the 700R4. :thumbsup: :thumbsup:
And I just realized that I put in the 700R4 over two years ago. :eek:
 






Would you care to explain that a little further and tell us what you liked so much about it?
 






Trans is dead again with 12,000 mi in 20 months. :mad:

Made a heckofa lotta racket, and then something shattered.
 






Do you think it was the manual valve body change that took it out? (I thought it was you that had it done)..

~Mark
 






How much more would be be to do a 5.0/4r70w conversion? :( I know it took a lot of work and cusomizing to get that 700r4 in there though.
 






How much more would be be to do a 5.0/4r70w conversion? :( I know it took a lot of work and cusomizing to get that 700r4 in there though.
Nice!!
 






Do you think it was the manual valve body change that took it out? (I thought it was you that had it done)..

~Mark
I'm betting on input drum again. similar noises. When I started it up and it started clicking with engine rpm I was hoping for something 'easy' like a flexplate. :rolleyes: But the engine still turns over with the starter so it has to be inside the trans.
 






How much more would be be to do a 5.0/4r70w conversion? :( I know it took a lot of work and cusomizing to get that 700r4 in there though.
If I had to go back 2.5 years, thats what I would have done. But now I have a bunch of money invested in both the 4.0 and the 700r4. :rolleyes:
 






My last one was clicking when I brought it to bowtie.. Turned out it was my pump and converter.. the snout of the converter was broken which was taking out the pump..

So far so good though.. (whacking wood).. I have about 60k miles on my last one..

At least getting a 700r4 rebuilt is much cheaper than an a4ld.. But personally, I wouldn't go back to bowtie.. I'd go with someone local OR someone that will dyno test a 60 degree v6 style (small case) 700r4.. Not many places can do it.

~Mark
 






I guess that could be it also. I was thinking about pulling this one apart myself and attempting a rebuild. It can't be that hard right? :dunno:
 






I'm thinking if mine ever goes out, I'll just swap in a '96+ 4L80E. On the newer Chevy trans they use a 3 piece case now. All you need to do is to get a bellhousing from a 60° 4L60E and bolt it to your choice of the 4L60E, 4L65E, 4L80E or even the newer 6 speed autos. And get a stand alone tranny controller.
 






Do they make a 60 degree bellhousing for thoose, and if so, is it the same torque converter allowing for the same spacing for the adapter or are we going to have to switch the flexplate adapters?

My big question is, if the 60 degree can be built as strong as the standard 700-R4, then why are you having these problems? Is the input drum the same? I've heard of many 700-R4's running behind high HP Chevy motors and not having this issue.
 






My big question is, if the 60 degree can be built as strong as the standard 700-R4, then why are you having these problems? Is the input drum the same? I've heard of many 700-R4's running behind high HP Chevy motors and not having this issue.

The input drums are different. The 60° trannys have a smaller input drum.

Do they make a 60 degree bellhousing for those, and if so, is it the same torque converter allowing for the same spacing for the adapter or are we going to have to switch the flexplate adapters?

I'm currently looking on the web for that info. I'm not sure which pattern the 4.2L I5 uses. I do know that the 60° engines are no longer in use in RWD applications. Although if I cannot find a production bellhousing there is a company out there that make custom bellhousing applications.
 






I guess that could be it also. I was thinking about pulling this one apart myself and attempting a rebuild. It can't be that hard right? :dunno:

Sorry to hear about the tranny:(

Considering the jobs you've tackled on your own, rebuilding the tranny yourself shouldn't be a problem. You've got the fabrication equipment to build any tools you'll need... You're set!
 



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I wonder wha tthe problem is.. that sucks man
 






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