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Just bought PIU - surging rpm ?

KayGee

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Still curious about long term feedback from anyone that did this to see if everything is still good or any problems returned.

If it is just "bad" fluid, then it seems like staying on top of it by doing a drain/refill every 30-60K might be cheap insurance (instead of waiting to 100K or more).
 
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Fedon

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To the dealership that seemed "amazed" that this worked....remind me to never EVER bring a car there again.

Most new vehicles engage the torque converter lockup at even city driving speeds to increase the MPGs...

what you're seeing there is a clear sign of the TC lockup solenoid engaging and disengaging due to lack of fluid pressure to maintain lock. Gummed up fluid passages are number 1 cause of this, followed by low fluid level.

I mean, seriously....rookie stuff and the dealer is amazed?!
 
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KayGee

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To the dealership that seemed "amazed" that this worked....remind me to never EVER bring a car there again.

Most new vehicles engage the torque converter lockup at even city driving speeds to increase the MPGs...

what you're seeing there is a clear sign of the TC lockup solenoid engaging and disengaging due to lack of fluid pressure to maintain lock. Gummed up fluid passages are number 1 cause of this, followed by low fluid level.

I mean, seriously....rookie stuff and the dealer is amazed?!
I believe the above folks said fluid levels were not low.

Maybe my definition of "gummed up" and yours are not the same, but I can't recall seeing the fluid passages in a transmission that were "gummed up". I have heard of varnish build up that can cause solenoids or other parts in the trans to not work as intended. If that were the case though, I would think a much less costly DIY fix would be to just add a bottle of seafoam trans tune, drive for 30 miles as indicated, then do a drain and refill (total cost of $40-45) instead of spending $200+ for a dealer flush and fill.

I always thought a powerflush was just changing old fluid for new at low pressure. I don't see how it is going to clear "gummed up" fluid passages. I don't see what it does that a simple drain and fill doesn't do (other than changing closer to 100% of the fluid instead of 60-70%).

So, it seems like we're back to a simple explanation of the fluid breaking down and not flowing properly and the cure seems to be simply replacing the fluid so a DIY drain and refill (or a couple of them) should net the same results at a much lower cost.
 
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Donpvt

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Had all the same symptoms . So glad I found these post! 2013 explorer police with 115,000 miles. Ford tec. didn't think it was of any use. Used IDS datalogger found excessive torque converter slippage even when converter is locked thru scan tool. Recommend replacing torque converter and main control with solenoid pack. Got him to reluctantly flush the transmission. Report reads Road Test. Cannot Reconfirm Concern. Only drove it home 20 miles so far and seem perfect. $324.85 Wonder how much it would cost to install a torque converter,solenoild,ect. with labor? I think motor and trans would have to be removed. Anyway thanks everyone for posting this info.
 
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N4YLOR

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Glad it worked out for you. Mine went perfectly fine afterwards for a few months but then all hell broke loose in cylinder 4. After some troubleshooting I am down a substantial amount of compression in that cylinder. Hope to drop it off with the dealer in a month or so. I have a bad feeling they will tell me bent valve and will want to replace the entire head. Will keep my fingers crossed it isn't the piston rings - THAT would probably turn into a replacement engine. Sucks I still owe 10 grand on this vehicle but hey... atleast I've got a good transmission..

Had all the same symptoms . So glad I found these post! 2013 explorer police with 115,000 miles. Ford tec. didn't think it was of any use. Used IDS datalogger found excessive torque converter slippage even when converter is locked thru scan tool. Recommend replacing torque converter and main control with solenoid pack. Got him to reluctantly flush the transmission. Report reads Road Test. Cannot Reconfirm Concern. Only drove it home 20 miles so far and seem perfect. $324.85 Wonder how much it would cost to install a torque converter,solenoild,ect. with labor? I think motor and trans would have to be removed. Anyway thanks everyone for posting this info.
 
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Donpvt

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Sorry to here that. So it is skipping now? I've been looking at used motors and trans. on e-bay. Seems there are plenty of them. There is a complete motor trans., axles with sub frame on e-bay now for $999.00 plus shipping from Ca. Its a 2015 not sure it would fit mine. Think the motor is the same but seems there might be some difference in the trans. I'm guessing labor is going to be high to replace. Doesn't seem to have been to many motor changes yet for that info. Good luck keep me posted. Thanks again Don
 
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N4YLOR

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Hey Don
I always had a check engine light for my catalytic converter pretty much since I got the car, just kept putting it off. One day I was taking off from a traffic light normally and all of a sudden she started bucking hard and flashing the check engine light, I had already previously gone through all new coils and plugs so figured maybe the converter finally totally crapped the bed and was causing a huge amount of backpressure. I drove it home, probably wasn't the best idea I could smell the raw fuel pretty bad, so anyway I got home, parked it and ordered a replacement converter.
Replaced the converter a few days later, started it up and no check engine lights at all. Even seemed to run fine, then only seconds later starting missing hard again. Code comes back Misfire Cyl 4. After that I replaced plugs, swapped coils, the problem always stayed with that cylinder. Did a compression test and saw it was down considerably.
Really not sure what caused the problem in the first place. I've even heard stories of a piece of carbon getting stuck between a valve and seat and not allowing it to close. I'll see what the dealer says about it, could get REAL pricey, and unfortunate that I'm still upside down on the loan. May start another thread when I know more, in case others have this problem like my trans shudder issue. Maybe my PIU is the guinea pig.

Sorry to here that. So it is skipping now? I've been looking at used motors and trans. on e-bay. Seems there are plenty of them. There is a complete motor trans., axles with sub frame on e-bay now for $999.00 plus shipping from Ca. Its a 2015 not sure it would fit mine. Think the motor is the same but seems there might be some difference in the trans. I'm guessing labor is going to be high to replace. Doesn't seem to have been to many motor changes yet for that info. Good luck keep me posted. Thanks again Don
 
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peterk9

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Had all the same symptoms . So glad I found these post! 2013 explorer police with 115,000 miles. Ford tec. didn't think it was of any use. Used IDS datalogger found excessive torque converter slippage even when converter is locked thru scan tool. Recommend replacing torque converter and main control with solenoid pack. Got him to reluctantly flush the transmission. Report reads Road Test. Cannot Reconfirm Concern. Only drove it home 20 miles so far and seem perfect. $324.85 Wonder how much it would cost to install a torque converter,solenoild,ect. with labor? I think motor and trans would have to be removed. Anyway thanks everyone for posting this info.
Welcome to the Forum.:wave:

Peter
 
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SamsonX

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I had the same issue on my 2013 PI. It started AFTER I did a transmission flush ( flushes are not in the maintenance brochure for our cars. I had a wrench light go on but then go off. I took it to the dealer and they said the was no code so they would have to duplicate the wrench. They kept the car for a week, drove it home at night and finally got it to show. The first recommendation is to reset the light and if it goes on again they can do more work. I left it with them again for another week and they were able to duplicate it. Turns out its a module that needed replacing. I will pull the actual bill and give you the product part - cost about $350 to replace. Have had no issues in 2,000 miles. I was very appreciative that the dealer took their tim etc figure this out as normally they suck. I think they had just gotten a new service manager and he stuck with it. Contact me if you have any questions, will try to remember to pull the receipt tomorrow.
 
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SamsonX

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I had the same issue on my 2013 PI. It started AFTER I did a transmission flush ( flushes are not in the maintenance brochure for our cars. I had a wrench light go on but then go off. I took it to the dealer and they said the was no code so they would have to duplicate the wrench. They kept the car for a week, drove it home at night and finally got it to show. The first recommendation is to reset the light and if it goes on again they can do more work. I left it with them again for another week and they were able to duplicate it. Turns out its a module that needed replacing. I will pull the actual bill and give you the product part - cost about $350 to replace. Have had no issues in 2,000 miles. I was very appreciative that the dealer took their tim etc figure this out as normally they suck. I think they had just gotten a new service manager and he stuck with it. Contact me if you have any questions, will try to remember to pull the receipt tomorrow.
Just bought a 2013 interceptor utility a couple days ago, drove it back home about a 1.5 hour trip mostly 70 miles an hour, had no issues. As I got into town I noticed the tachometer needle bouncing back and fourth about 150 rpm, surging with a bucking feeling rather quickly. It seemed to happen through 2-3 and 3-4 mostly around 27-34 mph with light throttle, then it would shift again and the needle would stay put and the car doesn't seem to buck once it finally gets into the final gear. If I use more throttle I can feel the car hesitating, but the surging isn't as noticeable.
I did some research on different forums and tried a couple things.
While it was surging and bucking, I kept my foot on the throttle and stepped onto the brake with my left foot. The surging didn't seem the stop. Afterwards I was going about 30 miles an hour, (car surging) and clicked the OD off button on the end of the shifter. The RPM shot up to 3500, kind of surprised me that it must've dropped that many gears? Or that it dropped at all really, as I don't imagine I was in Overdrive doing 30 with light throttle.

Anyway, no check engine light came on the whole time this was happening. I was almost home watching the needle bounce and surge again and the car started shuddering almost like running over a rumble strip, and it was shuddering in sync with the tach needle.
The shudder brought back bad memories of a couple LX crown Victoria's I owned that had that common torque converter rumble in the mid to late 90's.
When I pulled into the driveway and put it in park I noticed a check engine light had come on, awesome I thought, I'll get my answer! It turned out to be P0430, a catalytic converter related issue. In my research I don't see how a plugged cat could be related to a shudder and rpm surging, but it does give me something to fix.
The car has 104k on it, and was department owned, the only service records I have are from the car fax and there's nothing relevant to maintenance. I am going to assume the plugs and coils and original and according to the maintenance schedule, should be replaced so I will definitely start there, but I am just wondering what you guys think my other course of action should be. Change the plugs/coils and just play it by ear? Bring it to a Ford dealer that can hook it up to a computer and watch the engine live? Get the p0430 code diagnosed and replace catalytic if necessary? I also see some people have had similar shudder issues go away after a trans fluid drain and filter replace. I'm really hoping the rpm surging, shudder, deal ends up being a simple faulty coil or worn plug that refuses to show up as a check engine code - I don't want to know what it costs to have a torque converter replaced at the stealership! So my plan is start with the easy required maintenance stuff and go from there, but I am certainly all ears to any suggestions from anyone here!



As my response below shows, I had the same issue with my 2013 PIU. Here is how it was fixed by Ford: So the diagnosis for my issue was 7H322 Valve Sticking when hot. They did an electric diagnosis P0710, P1783 Set, replaced the thermal bypass valve. Valve asy 586086 cost 44.63 and labor was $192.65. It has been approximately 2,000 miles and I am comfortable that the issue was fixed. I hope this helps.
 
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KayGee

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I would say your issue is different although the symptom was apparently the same. None of the others reported CEL/MIL or codes. Your codes P0710 and P1783 relate to trans temp sensor malfunciton and/or over temp issue.

I'm not a big fan of machine/power trans flushes, especially on a vehicle with substantial miles that more than likely has never had any trans maintenance done. I much prefer drain and fills at regular intervals (50-60K or less if trailering). Depending on vehicle, you tend to get about half the old fluid out, up to all of the old fluid (if there is a TC drain plug), at each drain and fill.
 
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SamsonX

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I would say your issue is different although the symptom was apparently the same. None of the others reported CEL/MIL or codes. Your codes P0710 and P1783 relate to trans temp sensor malfunciton and/or over temp issue.

I'm not a big fan of machine/power trans flushes, especially on a vehicle with substantial miles that more than likely has never had any trans maintenance done. I much prefer drain and fills at regular intervals (50-60K or less if trailering). Depending on vehicle, you tend to get about half the old fluid out, up to all of the old fluid (if there is a TC drain plug), at each drain and fill.

POssibly. However, if you read my first post,no codes showed up. The wrench warning light would go on but then off. The only way they diagnosed was by replicating the situation which took a week. Somehow, while the wrench was lit up they could pull a code. But, as soon as the car stopped or drove 10 more miles it would go away. So no code showing.
 
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KayGee

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I can only go by what others say/post and I don't believe there were any indications of scans showing any codes and they all claimed their problems went away after trans flush and did not require other repairs or part replacement.

It can be helpful to read up on OBD codes and how pending/maturing codes work. Intermittent faults can set a pending/maturing code. Not all of these will illuminate the CEL/MIL and if the faults don't recur within x# of cycles, these pending/maturing codes can be automatically cleared from memory.

If a code is stored (even pending/maturing codes), most modern cars should also store the freeze frame data to help identify and troubleshoot the problem.

Forscan is a great, free tool that can help you understand pending/maturing codes that may be present on your vehicle even though the CEL/MIL is not illuminated and these codes can be a great help in diagnosing intermittent problems early on, before they become matured codes indicating a failure.
 
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BuzzKillPIU

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I drive a 2014 PIU with 117k having the same low speed surging issues. Can't wait to do a fluid swap.
 
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peterk9

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Lightn95

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So this might be a dumb question...but...can someone post a picture of the drain plugs for the trans? I just put my 13 PIU up on the lift and I can't find it. I see there's 2 small what look like plugs (?) But I'm not positive they are the drains.....sorry for the dumb question, but I'm a push rod guy and this motor looks sideways to me.
Thanks
 
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peterk9

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.....sorry for the dumb question, but I'm a push rod guy and this motor looks sideways to me.
Thanks
It is. It's a transverse mounted engine.;)

Peter
 
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KayGee

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So this might be a dumb question...but...can someone post a picture of the drain plugs for the trans? I just put my 13 PIU up on the lift and I can't find it. I see there's 2 small what look like plugs (?) But I'm not positive they are the drains.....sorry for the dumb question, but I'm a push rod guy and this motor looks sideways to me.
Thanks
This is from a '17.
RC5JU4R.png

When I checked my fluid levels, they were extremely low (trans will shift hard/clunk when fluid is low) - a simple drain netted me about 4 qts and it took about 5 1/4 to get it to where it needed to be on the trans dipstick.
 
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mikeinkansas

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Low speed surging fixed! got under vehicle, drained out 4+ qts of trans fluid & replaced drain plug. Replaced fluid along with 1 tube of "Dr. Trannys shudder stop". Vehicle feels like new. Absolutely no surging, It was so bad before I did this that I didnt enjoy driving the vehicle in town because of the lower speed surge. Now I love it. Just wanted to share my experience with the "Surge" Thanks
 
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