K&N and vehicle warentee

[01EB5.0]

Hey guys...
My Mom has a 2002 Escape she bought new last year. For Christmas we got her a K&N filter, last year. We threw it in right from the package, it was pre-oiled. Well, she brought it to ford th eother day for a rough start on occasion and sometimes she says it will stumble at idle occasionally. It also sometimes blows out white smoke on startup when cold. These hardly ever happen, but it's only got 15,000 miles so she wanted them to check it out. They could not figure out the problem, but told her that the K&N drop-in filter would void her warentee because it causes the air to be restricted and it will not swirl the same as a paper filter would, which could throw off the MAF and cause it to run bad. I think it is BS because I never had a problem with ford and my K&N's in both of my exporers....ever.
maybe she wen tto a cranky dealer or something..who knows...
They did put on her vehicle history that she has a K&N and they red flagged it so I guess they were just being jerks.
Any ideas?

 

[surphrat420]

Yeah Sounds like there ass's

go check out http://www.knfilters.com/filtercharger.htm

look at the fourth bullet down on the left

it clearly states 'will NOT void warranty'

the K&N fillters are DIRECT FACTORY REPLACMENTS

i would go down there and ask them what brands of air fillters are OK, and after they tell you only to put a ford piece of dog cr*p fillter ... then tell them to go f**k them selfs because your gonna buy what ever brand you want.

 

[jetmaker]

There is a post floating around somewhere that talks about how manufacturers can not void warranties for aftermarket parts. Get a copy, take it to the Dealer, and when they say only Ford filters are approved, you ask them to give you one for free... it is the law.

jetmaker

 

['96explorereddiebauer]

I don't see why they said it'd void warrenty. The dealer here in Winston-Salem sells K&N filters for all their Ford trucks. Granted, they were more expensive but they are available there so I seriously don't see why it would void warrenty.

 

[Robert]

Do a search for Magnusson-Moss warranty act to see what the legal requirements are with regards to warranties. The most authorative organization is the FTC, start there. Here is a link to the act : http://www4.law.cornell.edu/uscode/15/ch50.html Basically, it states that a manufacturer must prove that an aftermarket item caused the failure. They can not merely void your warranty based on using aftermarket items. They also can not require you to use only supplies manufactured by them unless they provide them at no charge.

That said, be aware that an over-oiled K&N filter can cause the symptoms that you described. Their mis-informed description though was way off. If they looked at your Mass Air-flow Sensor and noticed an unusual amount of oily sludge inside, they could reasonably deduce that it came from the oiled air filter that is only a few inches up stream. A dirty MAS will cause the problems you are seeing. Who's to say how much money a dealership is willing to spend though if you wanted to fight the issue all the way to court. Often-times just mentioning the Magnusson-Moss warranty act will get them to back down from their stance since they know you are more informed than they first assumed. Often times it isn't though and they will go as far as making up reasons that parts have failed and how they are related to your aftermarket product. The easiest way to avoid this situation is to remove any item that a dealer can give you grief about, however that isn't always practical.

 

[Billy177]

the only thing i took out of my ex was the chip and they did not question me about my warranty

 

[01EB5.0]

Well, after this all happeend, I called 10 different Ford dealerships and asked about K&N and new vehicle warentee. 3 said it would not affect warentee and that it was fine (one specified it had to fit into the stock airbox to be ok). 3 said it would void the warentee, and 4 said it COULD void the warentee on parts that may be damaged by the use of the aftermarket product. 2 of them said for example, if the MAS gets fouled and the engine starts to throw a check engine light, they said they would conclude the MAS got dirty from the oiled K&N and would charge the customer for a new MAS, no matter how old the vehicle. Most of them sounded reasonable, and i do not know if the law states they can not void the warentee on any parts, or just they can't void it on parts not directly related to the aftermarket part....
Who knows, but alas it may be a good idea to keep a paper filter on hand for dealer trips.

 

[mosinman]

aftermarket parts

Back in the 80s when I worked as an insurance adjuster for GMAC (motors insurance company), aftermarket parts were covered in warranties as long as they were DIRECT replacments. For example, replacing an existing air filter with a K&N drop in is no problem. However, if you replaced the intake tube, or discarded the airfilter housing, etc, that is a "modification" and not a replacement. In other words, replacements are accepted, but modifications were not. This was my understanding of GM factory warranty policy in the late 80s.

 

[01EB5.0]

That is exactly what a couple of the ford dealers told me too, but the others were saying oiled filters were not direct replacements since they used different material, and the dealer my mom delt with went as far as to say the K&N could be too restrictive and cause the air to swirl in the wrong motion down past the MAS and the bad swirling action could cause the MAS to read wrong and cause the vehicle to run bad.

 

[Rick]

Any oiled filter can effect the MAS by depositing oil on the electrical pickup in the MAS. The oil can be easily removed with electronic parts cleaner or o2 sensor safe carb cleaner. For stubborn deposits I like to use those foam covered q-tip tip things... I like them better then the cotton swabs since there are no cotton fibers to worry about.

For the dealer to automatically replace a MAS that has been contaminated by oil is just ridicoulous...

 

[ALLOUTWAR13]

my uncle who is a ford certified mechanic emailed the ford motor company yesterday and included a copy of the web page from k&n they emailed back saying that it is indeed true that it should not void your warranty however they can not recomend that you use aftermarket parts.