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K&N Intake


txaggie

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Nightcrew

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has anyone tried to retrofit the stock airbox with any of their aftermarket intake pipes?
 


U.A.V Explorer

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First Time For Me

Having tried a lot of different so-called "performance" parts -- along with reading a bunch of related forums -- it seems that the currently accepted belief is that these air filters don't do much by way of increasing power or fuel economy. It seems that the restriction on intake revolves more around air boxes and the like (along with sucking in hot air) than it does with the actual flow of the filter elements... like the only upside is not having to buy new filters with the reusable ones. However, the cleaning / oiling of them is a major PITA and is messy, IMO. Now that some of you are possibly linking it to damage, I think I'll stick with the standard paper filter.

Not saying that you folks are wrong if you're saying you got more MPG or HP... just saying that after researching it and using these products in the past, I'm not convinced so I don't bother.
I ordered a K&N air filter for my 2011 Explorer and received it yesterday. I just installed earlier today. Funny thing after reading some of the comments on the forum, is that after I installed the K&N filter, I was at a car shop to get my wife's car, told the manager of the shop I just put in a K&N air filter and he basically told me it wasn't good and that it could screw up the sensors, etc. So I messaged my friend who's pretty knowledgeable in car repairs, and he said the same thing about MAF sensors. Which was a complete surprise to me because back around '99 I replaced my filter in my '87 Integra with an RS Akimoto air filter. Never once heard back then about the oil on those damaging MAF sensors.

So now after reading several threads on the forums, I am in complete confusion as to whether I am going to keep the K&N filter or remove it and put back the OEM Motorcraft paper filter. Even if oiled properly, reading about how over time the remnants from the oil can put a coating over the MAF sensors which then require cleaning, is kind of leaning me to just go back with the OEM filter.

Even with this stated on the K&N website about the MAF sensors: http://www.knfilters.com/faq.htm#27

In addition, I do agree that even with cleaning taking place every 50,000 miles, it is a PITA to remove the air filter. I couldn't just slip the air box cover back in place like I could with the OEM filter in, with the K&N filter in, I had to actually take apart/separate the air box cover just so I could fit it back in.
 


plumbago

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Has anyone ever seen a good comparison of standard paper element air filters, as far as best air flow characteristics ? Say like between the major common brands. I do think a better flow filter might help "some" I have not been able to find any such report.....Plum
 






swshawaii

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Odrapnew

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Having worked in the air filtration business for a few years, I will say a K&N will not go in any of my vehicles. For stock engines, the factory paper filter will provide a lot better engine protection with little, if any, performance decrease. Also, while the k&n is less restrictive when clean, it becomes more restrictive than the paper relatively quick. The k&n will let a lot more dust through as well. That's my $0.02(with some facts)

I have a link on my work computer with a comparison between a few different filters, I'll post it when I get a chace.
 


Jeremy_H

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I use AEM dryflow's on all my vehicles, the explorer was no exception, ordered one a few days after getting the car. It will last the life of the car and after 3-4 filter changes it pays for itself. It flows better than a paper filter and is easy to clean. Does it help mileage or power, who knows, don't really care. But for a fact a dirty/lower flowing filter will start to hurt gas mileage. I clean mine every oil change just like I would replace a paper filter.

Another note, most vehicles stock airbox work very well and have cool air ducts run to them from the grill or under the car. Make sure you keep them clean too. I started noticing a decrease in mileage in my corolla (2-3mpg less) so I cleaned the aem dryflow in it and didn't help so after inspecting the airbox I noticed some leaves down in the bottom and in the duct that feeds the airbox. Took the air box out and vacuumed out the duct with my shop vac and got out couple handfuls worth of leaves. Car immediately felt better and over the next tank my gas mileage had come back. So airflow to the engine indeed plays a factor in performance and mpg.
 
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Quicksilver

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Having worked in the air filtration business for a few years, I will say a K&N will not go in any of my vehicles. For stock engines, the factory paper filter will provide a lot better engine protection with little, if any, performance decrease. Also, while the k&n is less restrictive when clean, it becomes more restrictive than the paper relatively quick. The k&n will let a lot more dust through as well. That's my $0.02(with some facts)

I have a link on my work computer with a comparison between a few different filters, I'll post it when I get a chace.

My experience is purely subjective/opinion as well but I ran the K&N's for years both in drop in replacements and round upgraded elements. Most of those cars were MAP based (uses a pressure transducer so no hot wire to get contaminated/soiled) and though they did offer more sound and perceived performance, I did notice my oil seemed to get dirty sooner? Could have been my imagination... I have been wrenching on 2.2 Chrysler turbo cars for almost 25 years as my hobby. one cool thing about them is that they were plentiful for years in the self service J Yards. One time I found an 89 Lebaron 5 speed turbo (which means it has a forged crank unlike the autos which have cast) in the yard and I wanted the crank/rods/pistons out of it. I noticed it had the K&N sticker on the airbox and sure enough it had a flat panel drop in inside. Sweet I thought, I'll grab that too:thumbsup: When I got the oil pan off I noticed a strange thing I hadn't seen in any of the dozen or so 2.2 motors I'd torn down. There was about a 1/4" of 'silt' on the bottom of the pan. Not sludge, not overcooked/coked oil, just a fine layer of superfine silt. Weird, I could actually break it off like peanut brittle.:( I still grabbed the parts as the crank wasn't badly damaged to some of the rod bearings were down to the copper layer. After that I decided against running the K&N's anymore. Fortunately AEM came out with the DriFlow's shortly after.
 


Odrapnew

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I read a little bit on the AEM and that sounds better than the k&n for dust protection. I will say that most cars that only see paved roads, the k&n won't have a big effect on engine wear. The filter will see so little dust(relatively speaking) that it really won't cause excessive wear. Now, if you lived in the country with a lot of dirt roads, the higher efficiency of the factory would be better. For me. I'll stick with factory replacements.
 


2TimingTom

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Don't count on mileage gains with a drop in or an intake kit.
K & N doesn't claim MPG gains either. Keep in mind that any
added HP occurs over 3000 RPM. How often are you there?

http://www.knfilters.com/faq.htm#1
Which is probably about the point at which the ECU switches from closed loop to open loop. At that point, a filter that allows more air in will lean out the pre-determined fuel map and generate more power. 99.9% of the rest of the time the trick filter isn't doing anything beyond what a normal filter would do (except let in more dirt and contaminate the mass air flow sensor). In closed loop, no filter, a K&N, or a paper filter will make the engine perform the same- all those crazy sensors that comprise the OBD II system make sure of it. In closed loop, the O2 sensors keep the engine burning as close to stoichiometric as possible- adding or removing air results in adding or removing fuel. Even I remembered that from chemistry class. In open loop, the ECU reverts to a pre-programmed fuel table that runs on the rich side for engine safety and the sensors turn a deaf ear- leaning out this fuel table creates more power.

I've also noticed my oil appears dark on the dipstick very soon after an oil change when using a K&N filter. I won't use the filter anymore.
 


LukerDooker

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I use AEM dryflow's on all my vehicles, the explorer was no exception, ordered one a few days after getting the car. It will last the life of the car and after 3-4 filter changes it pays for itself. It flows better than a paper filter and is easy to clean. Does it help mileage or power, who knows, don't really care. But for a fact a dirty/lower flowing filter will start to hurt gas mileage. I clean mine every oil change just like I would replace a paper filter.

Another note, most vehicles stock airbox work very well and have cool air ducts run to them from the grill or under the car. Make sure you keep them clean too. I started noticing a decrease in mileage in my corolla (2-3mpg less) so I cleaned the aem dryflow in it and didn't help so after inspecting the airbox I noticed some leaves down in the bottom and in the duct that feeds the airbox. Took the air box out and vacuumed out the duct with my shop vac and got out couple handfuls worth of leaves. Car immediately felt better and over the next tank my gas mileage had come back. So airflow to the engine indeed plays a factor in performance and mpg.
Ditto on the leaves in my old Honda-the pipe bringing in air began at an angle then went straight up & over, and was always something I asked to clean out during any service-always had a handful of leaves in there as well as a plastic shopping bag once.

The KM filter I put in was the proper replacement but was so much thinner than the stock Honda foam filter, I dont really think it was helping as much.
The Honda filter was a deep foam item that had thin upside down triangles in it.These sections were long and had dirt/gunk on them down from the mouth of the air feed pipe, but were quite clean on top.

The KM oiled filter had much more gunk in it since its all at the top, and I had to clean it every 2 months or so, so went back to stock after a season.

No noticeable improvement in mpg,
the shop tech who discussed it with me told me that if you are careful and kept an accurate record, cleaned and oiled the filter frequently, I would be lucky to notice 5 to 10% at most better mpg per tank.
He said maybe it would take more time to clean the filter and calculate your mpg than it was worth, he assumed it would do a few mpg better per tank but still driving carefully over all.
 


Odrapnew

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Which is probably about the point at which the ECU switches from closed loop to open loop. At that point, a filter that allows more air in will lean out the pre-determined fuel map and generate more power. 99.9% of the rest of the time the trick filter isn't doing anything beyond what a normal filter would do (except let in more dirt and contaminate the mass air flow sensor). In closed loop, no filter, a K&N, or a paper filter will make the engine perform the same- all those crazy sensors that comprise the OBD II system make sure of it. In closed loop, the O2 sensors keep the engine burning as close to stoichiometric as possible- adding or removing air results in adding or removing fuel. Even I remembered that from chemistry class. In open loop, the ECU reverts to a pre-programmed fuel table that runs on the rich side for engine safety and the sensors turn a deaf ear- leaning out this fuel table creates more power.

I've also noticed my oil appears dark on the dipstick very soon after an oil change when using a K&N filter. I won't use the filter anymore.
Actually, the engine does read some sensors in open loop. For example, the mass air flow sensor. You are right that it uses tables, but those tables use the mass air sensor to determine how much fuel it should be injecting for a given situation ( like load and rpm). That's just one example, I'm sure there are many other sensors the computer uses in open loop.

I dont know the intricacies of the Explorer computer tune, but I have had quite a bit of hands on tuning with my supercharged 89 Mustang. The tune in that car uses the mass air meter to determine air flow, which is then converted into load based on rpm. I have a table that specifies an air fuel ratio for a given load at a given rpm. If i put an air filter that is less restrictive, the load increases and therefore the afr changes, but it doesnt lean out. I have mine specified to richen it up with more air. On the ignition timing side, similar table, but it specifies ignition timing based on load and rpm. Thats the very simplified version, there's a lot more to it.

Closed loop you are right on. O2 sensors are used to target stoich all the time.
 


2TimingTom

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I haven't tuned any F/I engines, but on the N/A engines I've tuned,leaning out the mixtures makes more power. And by "leaning out" what I really mean is to "make less rich".

There was a government study done showing the effects of a clean paper filter and a clogged filter. Other than the clogged filter getting sucked out of the filter housing, there wasn't a great deal of difference- power and economy wise.
 


Odrapnew

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I haven't tuned any F/I engines, but on the N/A engines I've tuned,leaning out the mixtures makes more power. And by "leaning out" what I really mean is to "make less rich".

There was a government study done showing the effects of a clean paper filter and a clogged filter. Other than the clogged filter getting sucked out of the filter housing, there wasn't a great deal of difference- power and economy wise.
I agree with all you stated here....well, you can lean it out too far, but bad things can happen at that point as I'm sure you know.

What i was getting at is that depending on how the tune is set up(again, not sure the full details of the Ex tune), it should compensate for the extra air, even in open loop.
 


oz64cobra01

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To the last post, air raid has a dry filter CAI.
 


Alex_D

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I just installed a K&N filter on my 2013 Explorer Sport. I had a hard time clamping the housing cover at first though. Haven't noticed gas mileage improvement yet. Has anyone else used this filter on their Explorer Sport by any chance?
 


peterk9

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I just installed a K&N filter on my 2013 Explorer Sport. I had a hard time clamping the housing cover at first though. Haven't noticed gas mileage improvement yet. Has anyone else used this filter on their Explorer Sport by any chance?
I haven't used the forementioned filter but did watch a segment of Motor Week that talked about these filters and the conclusion was that they didn't improve MPG.

Peter
 

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KnobCreek

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No, they don't improve fuel mileage. They do increase horsepower some. Since it takes fuel to make horsepower and fuel mileage does not decrease after adding the K&N kit, it can be said they are fuel efficient. I installed one on my Explorer at 26 miles. I'm currently at 71. The kid in me likes the sound but the added horsepower doesn't come into play until the upper RPM range which I haven't been to yet. Bottom line, if you're looking for better fuel mileage, don't bother with one. If you are young at heart and like the sound, go for it.
 


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