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Leaky Windshield?

TravisM.

Member
Joined
May 30, 2005
Messages
15
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0
City, State
Mapleton, PA
Year, Model & Trim Level
1996 Sport
I have a 96 X Sport. Three days after I bought it, I noticed that when it rains, I get a water leak into the headliner. It appears between the Drivers side sun visor, and the top of the windshield. It looked to me that the obvious source for the leak is the channel running the length of the trucks roof, up and under the window seal on each side of the vehicle. Long story short, I tried using a tube of silicon sealant to seal it up. No help.

Heres my predicament. I bought the truck from a highly regarded, reputable used car dealer. It came with a 3 month, 4500 mile warranty included in the purchase price. Is this something I can eventually fix with the liberal use of Silicone Sealant, or should I try to use the warranty? Are these modles known for this problem?
 



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Chances are it's the windshield seal. It's possible it was replaced improperly at some point. Got warranty, have them fix.
 






I would get it done under warrenty.

Windshields are no fun.
 






In Florida they're no big deal, insurance has to pay for them if they get a crack in them, leak, break, whatever.

But yea, get that done under warranty, and try to hassle them to get something extra out of it. :p
 






There was a service bulletin put out by Ford concerning this leak you are having..I highly doubt Ford will honor any repair work after 10 or 11 years.I have the same problem when I use a car wash...Its not to serious..but I know it will need to be re-sealed.
 






thats why you get a warrenty. i replaced mine,the seals they used from factory are junk. just gonna get worst if not fixed! get to some hasseling!!! good luck
 






If its still on warranty, then try to pass this and anything else you have on the warranty while you still can (duh). :rolleyes:

I had a similar problem with my 99 XLT (water going through the "gutters" on the roof would end up on the driver's side floor all the time, leaking down the firewall) and I fixed it with some super-liquid silicone that I purchased at a local NAPA store - it basically has the consistency of water, so I pretty much sealed all the outside windshield gaskets with it by slightly lifting a gasket and pouring it underneath... I poured some into the gutters and let it drip down there, and even removed the black plastic wiper arm/motor grill and sealed the bottom of the winshield too, just to be sure. I drove many months since (through our northern winter too) and haven't noticed any leaks. I know there are posts here saying that you should run to the nearest garage and get the windshield re-installed as soon as you see a droplet of water getting through to avoid corrosion, but I'm pretty sure that once you seal it this way, a lot of other things will kill that truck long before any rust is visible around the windshield. If it's sealed and no water gets in, how can it rust? :p
 






762mm said:
If it's sealed and no water gets in, how can it rust? :p
That is based on the assumption that it is totally sealed and was clean dry and rust free from the get-go.

I have seen it far to many times.
 






I just talked to the guy at the dealership today. Heres how it went.
Me: Hi. I bought the black Explorer Sport about 3 weeks ago.

Him: Yeah. Hows it working out for you?

Me: Fine, but we have a little problem. What does the warranty cover?

Him: Really? Well, thats what the warranty is for. It basically covers anything mechanical, whithin reason. If the brakes go bad the day after you buy it, they'd be covered. I dont think it covers any exhaust or body work. Why, whats wrong?

Me: Well, my windshield leaks pretty badly, between the top of the windshield and the drivers side sunvisors.

Him: Well, they'll probably need to re-seal it to have it done right. I know its not covered, but I'll split the cost of the re-sealing with you.

Me: OK, who should I call?

He then gave me a phone # for a place that does a lot of work for his dealership. I called them, they called their "Glass People", and got back to me.

Re-Seal- $50
New Windshield-$219

Now I realize that $219 isnt a lot for a windshield these days, but what makes me nervous is that the guy said "If we break it pulling it out, you'll have to pay for the windshield".
So, if they are working on MY car, and THEY break MY windshield, I have to pay? Does that sound wierd to anyone else?

I wouldnt mind it if it was "If you need a new Windshield, youll have to buy it", but I'm not comfortable with the thought of paying for something I didnt break. In fact, $75 for the Re-Seal wouldnt be too bad, if I wouldnt have to pay if they break it.
 






IMO- You'll need to watch the job. Otherwise they will just remove the old windshield, add some sealant and slap it all back together. Any Rust or damage will be hidden and will surface as a new leak a year later.

Check out my Leaky Windshield Repair Thread. I basically had the windshield removed (by the glass company) in my driveway on a Friday. I repaired all the damage over the weekend and had the glass company install a new windshield on Monday. The glass company isn't in the rust repair business. If they see lots of rust they will recommend you have it repaired first, but in most cases they will just use more adhesive to try and seal up the leak.
 






I just talked to the guy who traded it at the lot I got it from. He said that the windshield has been replaced, and that it leaked before the replacement.

On the upside, the previous owner told me that there was no rust damage from the leak around the windshield frame.

A guy told me a while ago that sometimes they will leak under the roof rack and naturally, the water will run to the lowest point in the headliner. The way it looks, the lowest point is where my leak is showing itself, but that would depend on the side of the vehicle the leak was on. If I can get free for a little while tonight, I may check that out. It does kinda make some sense. It leaked before the windshield was replaced, it leaked after it was replaced and sealed. If the leak was present for that long, wouldnt there be some sort of rust/water damage to the windshield frame? I mean, even if it wasnt scratched or anything, it would still rust eventually, right?
 






The problem is the rust is most of the rust damage is hidden from view under the rubber windshield lip. In my thread above only the outer edge of circular rust spots @ the center and passenger side were visable, the rest was completely hidden from view. When a windshield is replaced they use a utility knife and windshield seal cutter. In most cases these tools scratch/gouge the windshield lip and allow it to rust. As such you should be present when they remove the windshield so you can see what exactly is going on.
 






Actually, the previous owner said that he was present when the windshield was replaced, and that they replaced the windshield, seal and (I dont know if its all one piece, or if its seperate from the seal) the rubber lip going around it. He said he inspected it for fear that the original problem may have been rust, but he saw none.
 






TravisM. said:
So, if they are working on MY car, and THEY break MY windshield, I have to pay? Does that sound wierd to anyone else?


Yeah that pretty much is every body in the market.
Back glass is cake but windshield ( front glass ) is a tepermental beast.
I'll cut out a back glass any day, but I leave the front glass to the professionals.

The fact that he is going 50/50 with you is very generous and shows tremendous character. I would make sure you write a thank you note and tell all your friends.
Hard to find that much today.
 






Dont get me wrong. I know of several people who have recieved this sort of service from this dealership.He is definitely top-notch, and I would recommend him to anyone around here looking for a good used car. He only gets local trade-ins from the major dealers (GM/Ford/Chrysler in this area), so he doeesnt have a lot of the transportation fees other lots have, and he has a good relationship with a reputable garage here as well.

I think I'll clarify with him what he is willing to split with me. If he'll go halfs with me on whatever needs done to make it right, I'll let them take care of it. If he isnt willing to split the cost of the new glass with me, I'll figure something out.
 






Before you pay even 1 cent to anyone, make sure there isn't any customer protection law in your region that would force the dealership to fix any undeclared flaws in the vehicle during a certain period after the purchase (i.e. 10 - 30 days).

Here where I live, any car that sells for above $2000 has such a government implied warranty (for approx 30 days from the date of purchase) - if the guy did not declare it to you and it is not in the purchase contract, then it's an undeclared problem that he has to fix at his own expense during this grace period. This is exactly why most old cars sell for like $1999, etc.. over here in Qc, Canada - they don't want to be responsible if anything goes wrong, so they have to make sure the tag is below $2000. ;)

P.S. This isn't part of a warranty. It's a law, so even if you buy a vehicle with no warranty from the dealer (or from an individual - i.e. your neighbor), you're still covered from any unfortunate surprises, and can go after them in civil court if they refuse to pay for the repairs.

You can contact your local customer protection agency (government organization) for free information about this - look in the blue pages... To set things in motion, they might instruct you to have the damage/flaw evaluated in writing by a qualified garage, and that will be your proof (you should do this anyway asap if you intend to go after the dealership to get this fixed free of charge - better yet, have it evaluated in writing at two diffrent places, preferably Ford dealerships). This whole procedure will give you some bargain chips when you go and see your friendly dealership salesman again - if he refuses to fix it yet again, it goes to court. Not only will they have to pay for repairs, they will also get cited by the customer protection agency for breaking the law. Trust me; been there, done that - and won. :thumbsup: :D :thumbsup:

Very important: keep a paper trail of everything - in civil court, if its not on paper, it doesn't exist or has next none credibility. If you play this right, you'll get reimbursed not only for the repair, but also for the initial damage/flaw inspection, personal time loss, moral damages, etc, etc, etc. From a $500 repair you can easily cash in $1500 in court. And you don't even need a lawyer, just a regualr IQ.
 






I wont do that.
1). He gave me a great deal on a used car that I like. He turned people away from buying it (without a deposit of my money) on the good faith that I would buy it the following friday afternoon.

2). He gave me a 3-month, 6000 mile warranty "free of charge". I realize, he may have added the price of the warranty to the asking price of the car, but the price of the Explorer wasnt too high to begin with. He is willing to split the cost of any repair needed with me to resolve a problem that isnt even covered under the warranty offered.

A Garage-Kept, 96 sport, 4x4, 4.0, auto/od, nice shiny paint, excellent interior, 1 owner (I'm #2), religiously maintained (All records were kept in the owners manual- 3k Mile oil changes, tranny fluid and plugs every 30k, all done at the Ford Garage), with 92000 miles on it for $4500. The price wasnt too bad for the exact vehicle I wanted.

3). The guy has to make money. I wish absolutely no ill will towards him, and therefore, I'm not going to be the one to try to "drag him over the coals". Again, he is willing to split the expense of any repair required to fix this problem, even though it is NOT covered by warranty. He could just say "Screw you, thats not covered", but he is going above and beyond in his service by splitting the expense with me.

With a "sue-happy" attitude like that, its no wonder that Canada has socialized health care. Apparently, it needs it.
 






TravisM. said:
With a "sue-happy" attitude like that, its no wonder that Canada has socialized health care. Apparently, it needs it.

First of all, that's not such a great price for the Ex you bought, it's pretty much the normal going rate (the depreciation is high). It's 9 years old, I wouldn't brag about getting the deal of a lifetime if I were you.

Second, I was just advising you of your rights as a customer so that you don't get screwed up the ass by some guy in a suit and gel in his hair, but apparently you like it that way.

Third, I'm sure you have neighbors in your community or even family who come to Canada to get that "socialist healthcare" of ours with false or borrowed medicare cards. It's a big issue here, we get Americans jumping the border all the time to get free healthcare that's supposed to be for our own people.

In conclusion: think twice before you speak.. I'm not bashing America here, but I won't take any sh*t from someone who's not even sharp enough to read up on vehicle prices before making a purchase. If you wanna pay for repairs on a vehicle that's still legally covered, then go ahead and stop breaking our balls.
 






Tell me when I said it was the "deal of a lifetime". Last I thought about it, "Deal of a lifetime" and "Not a bad price for exactly what I wanted" were to different phrases.

Apparently, "your rights as a consumer" are different than mine. There is a border between us, and there are no such laws in Pennsylvania, regarding vehicle sales. Used car dealers are a dime a dozen around here (edit to add) because of the lack of consumer protection. Its quick, easy money for a lot of guys.
I bought from one who has been in business for over 10 years. He has a good reputation for selling quality used vehicles, all of which are trade-ins from local dealerships.
I'm not the only one. I know more than a few people who have gone back to him with vehicle problems after-the-sale, and has has done the same for every one. I didnt buy from a fly-by-night, "Here today, gone tommorow" used car dealership. I bought from a reputable dealer who is known to "stand behind his sales" and try to make things right whenever possible.

I dont know where you get the "screwed up the ass by some guy in a suit and gel in his hair, but apparently you like it that way" (guilty conscience, maybe?).

If you wanna pay for repairs on a vehicle that's still legally covered, then go ahead and stop breaking our balls

The guy is willing to pay half of the cost for repairs, for something he could turn his back on and forget about (since we dont have your "customer protection laws").

If he said "I wont do a damned thing about it", I would seriously consider calling the Better Business Bureau. He's willing to work with me to help get the problem resolved, and I respect that.

I'm sure you have neighbors in your community or even family who come to Canada to get that "socialist healthcare" of ours

Thats a bit of an unfair assumption, isn't it? Honestly, I dont know anyone who has any dealings with canadian medicine. I apologize for my remark about canadian medical procedures. That was out of line, and off topic.

I won't take any sh*t from someone who's not even sharp enough to read up on vehicle prices before making a purchase.

Until you've priced vehicles at dealerships in central Pennsylvania, save the Vehicle Pricing Sermon.
 



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TravisM. said:
The guy is willing to pay half of the cost for repairs, for something he could turn his back on and forget about (since we dont have your "customer protection laws").

I find that very hard to believe... You mean to tell me that if I sell you a $ 15 000 car with a whole bunch of problems that I don't disclose to you before hand, there's nothing you can do about it after making the payment? This is the kind of thing I'd expect to hear from someone living in Zimbabwe (Africa) but not from someone in the States. If anything, most civil law suits take place south of the Canadian border (sue anyone, for anything) - over here, suing people is not that wide spread, but it does happen occasionnaly when some guy who emigrated from Iran two months earlier opens a business and tries to screw people - he will learn good business practice very fast, that's guaranteed. I happen to have studied law, and the nature of my work requires me to be in touch with diffrent laws very often.

As far as the Canadian healthcare is concerned, just a small remark: Our federal government had to modify the medicare cards recently (making them more secure with a picture, reflective markings, etc..) because they were loosing billions/year to American patients that had no legal right to receive the care (they were using borrowed/fake cards). It helped the problem a bit, but it's still present today (apparently some people really appreciate our system in the south). Also, if a tax-funded healthcare system is "socialist", then collecting taxes for anything else is "socialist" as well - you do have taxes in PA, don't you? Therefore are you a socialist State?
I know you apologized for these remarks, but that really pissed me off at the beginning (we're not a bunch of goddamn commies here - Canada is not North Korea with igloos, despite what some may think).

In any case, I would suggest asking around to see what other legal recourse there might be in a case of undeclared problems in vehicle sales... I'm sure the issue had been addressed before and that legislation exists, even if it may not be well advertized to the general public. After all, there must be a reason why this guy is willing to lose some money instead of just turning his back - as a golden rule when a business (or government) doesn't have to pay for something, they don't. When they do, that's because there's more at stake than whatever they are planning to spend.
 






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