Livernois Motorsports 3.5 Ecoboost engine build with upgraded rods and pistons

[Livernois]

Recently we've had the question come up a couple of times of whether or not upgraded rods and pistons are necessary for the 3.5L Ecoboost, here are a couple of photos of an engine that was sent to us for upgrading after suffering a failure. This was a rather high output engine with tune, turbos, etc. As the pictures show, there is a power limit to what the stock parts will handle before failure.

From examining the pistons, rings and bearings there are no signs of this failure being related to detonation or fuel. At power levels above 400WHP you start to get into a territory where the parts are near their outer limits, Beyond 450WHP you get into the territory where it's just a matter of when, not if, the stock rods and pistons will have a failure, because of this a piston and rod upgrade become practically a necessity in order to avoid eventual catastrophic engine failure. Again, while you could probably get away with running the stock bottom end near the 450WHP level, it's only a matter of time before the parts will catastrophically fail.

Below is some information on our Ecoboost piston and rod upgrade. We also offer an Ecoboost head stud kit as well that replaces the factory bolts with upgraded studs. This stud kit allows for greater clamping force to keep the cylinder heads in place under high loads typical of modified Ecoboost engines.

LIVERNOIS MOTORSPORTS AND ENGINEERING ECOBOOST PISTON AND ROD COMBO


Livernois Motorsports Exclusive EcoBoost Connecting Rods

I Beam design
4340 Billet Material
ARP 2000 Rod Bolts
Compatible with factory style bearings and crankshaft (must verify clearances)
Requires no modifications to work, just balance, and machine for proper clearances

Livernois Motorsports Exclusive EcoBoost Pistons
2618 Forged Material
Thicker crown and skirt for increased power capacity
Improved ring land design for better durability
Production compression ratio standard (can custom order in different compression ratios)
Crown coated with ceramic heat barrier to improve piston durability
Skirt coated with a molly based anti friction material to improve skirt wear
Package Includes: Billet Rods, Coated Pistons, Piston Pins, and Rings

Click here for more information on our Ecoboost performance packages and products or to place your orders as well.

Attached are some photo's of some recent builds, as well as some shots of the machine and engine shop.

 

[Quicksilver]

Wow As a DiY'r that's built a few(and broken nearly as many) motors I can say that those are very high quality build pieces Based on the color of your ceramic coatings I recognize the company and have used their services. I do believe the top coat saved one catastrophic failure when my fuel delivery system let me down on a high boost setting, well worth the extra money spent. I also like the very thick piston crowns you've spec'd out, some trade off in weight but the factory pistons are shockingly thin there to start with. I don't hope to see the inside of my motor any time soon but had planned on upgraded turbos in the future, it's nice to have an estimate based on your experience of what power level spells caution on the stock componants. Somewhere I had read that the Ford engineering staff were over 650 at the crank before they had an issue. I didn't think that sounded right for a 3.5l six.

Thanks for showing the pics, great eye candy, and chance you are willing to share a side shot of the pistons? I think you moved the pin height up to accommodate that extra crown thickness while keeping stock compression but not sure. Also, are the factory mains four bolt and billet??

 

[Carnivore]

Uhhhhh so a failure using your tune!?

 

[Livernois]

Wow As a DiY'r that's built a few(and broken nearly as many) motors I can say that those are very high quality build pieces Based on the color of your ceramic coatings I recognize the company and have used their services. I do believe the top coat saved one catastrophic failure when my fuel delivery system let me down on a high boost setting, well worth the extra money spent. I also like the very thick piston crowns you've spec'd out, some trade off in weight but the factory pistons are shockingly thin there to start with. I don't hope to see the inside of my motor any time soon but had planned on upgraded turbos in the future, it's nice to have an estimate based on your experience of what power level spells caution on the stock componants. Somewhere I had read that the Ford engineering staff were over 650 at the crank before they had an issue. I didn't think that sounded right for a 3.5l six.

Thanks for showing the pics, great eye candy, and chance you are willing to share a side shot of the pistons? I think you moved the pin height up to accommodate that extra crown thickness while keeping stock compression but not sure. Also, are the factory mains four bolt and billet??

Thank you very much for the kind words. We have put a great amount of research and development into these upgrades to ensure maximum performance safely and reliably for the future modifications to come. I will get more pics and information for you on this build and be sure to post.

Uhhhhh so a failure using your tune!?

No we have not had any failures related to are tuning. We are rebuilding several engines from different shops (No, we can't disclose who they are. And, we will not, to prevent a flame on any other shop.) across the country at the present time. A couple of these engines made over 450 WHP. One of the engines has no signs of detonation (rings, bearings and top of piston) and has a broken rod which in our opinion shows the power limit of the parts. Is it exact? No. But it's a great indication. When we see signs of melted pistons and heavy detonation (stuck rings, clear signs of detonation on top of piston) then the power limit doesn't come in to play. But the pics of the piston / rod we showed were a power limit problem.

 

[eh cam]

I think it's great your company is being proactive with stronger internals. How about the tranny ? Have there been reports of issues ?

 

[Turdle]

Awesome!

 

[EcoPowerParts]

I think it's great your company is being proactive with stronger internals. How about the tranny ? Have there been reports of issues ?

My tranny in the Flex (same as yours) started having issues after I was at 600HP (on stock motor) for awhile. Never had an engine issue though, in fact I haven't heard of a transverse engine blowing yet but nobody has been even remotely close to my HP levels in the Flex. Most I've heard is around 440ish.

 

[13Sport]

My tranny in the Flex (same as yours) started having issues after I was at 600HP (on stock motor) for awhile. Never had an engine issue though, in fact I haven't heard of a transverse engine blowing yet but nobody has been even remotely close to my HP levels in the Flex. Most I've heard is around 440ish.

600 at the wheels is ~775hp at the crank, are you saying you are still on stock internals putting out that much power?

 

[EcoPowerParts]

600 at the wheels is ~775hp at the crank, are you saying you are still on stock internals putting out that much power?

I was on all stock internals making 500HP to the wheels for months and 600HP to the wheels for a few weeks before the transmission started having issues shifting.

 

[Livernois]

Horsepower, Torque, Durability... and everything in between

Since this topic seems to be a hot one right now I thought it would be wise to further elaborate a little bit on things.

After seeing numerous questions in regards to the power capabilities of the stock OEM engine, along with other questions in regards to other facets of the OE engine it seems like we should delve a little further into this topic.

A quick item that was noticed was the discussion of the OE rod, crank and piston assemblies from the F-150 and the SHO. The parts between these engines are somewhat similar. The crankshaft is the same for the F-150 and the SHO, and the same goes for the connecting rods. This applies to every engine we've seen or taken apart, as well as the part numbers direct from Ford. The crankshaft is forged steel, the rods are forged, though technically that might be a misuse of the word as it's more commonly known because the rods are powdered metal. The process in ways is similar to forging in that pressure is used, but there are other aspects that are different.

Depending on the combination of elements used in the process, and the process itself to some extent, the powdered metal rods can be superior in strength to a forging. But there are sometimes trade-offs, the powdered metal rod might be stiffer than a forging, but might be more brittle. The design specifics of the rods are very much so controlled by the OE for the application. From the OE's side of the game (Ford) they will determine a specific part requirement for the application. This will be based on calculations, computer models, real world testing, etc. All of these things will drive what the final finished component needs to look like. As mentioned other places, the design requirements are all that the OE cares about. They don't concern themselves with making components stronger than they need to be beyond what the safety factor that they've already accounted for ahead of time.

The pistons in both the SHO and F150 are different, they have different designs. Besides the bowl shape being different the struts, skirts, supports are different between the two. From a materials standpoint I don't think either piston really stands out as beefy. But from an OE perspective they perfectly fit their application.

When we discuss power ratings with engines it's always an estimate. No two engines are alike, especially at the OE level where the parts need to just meet the requirements specified. This means some parts will exceed that specification and other parts will be marginal and just meet them. When pushed hard the part that is marginal will be the one that fails. So it's important to keep in mind that a power estimate is a rough approximation of power supported before failure. Some engines will fail under that power, others will support more power. But for those engines that support more power with OE parts, it's important to remember that because the parts are operating at the outer limits of their capacity, that most likely at some point, they will fail.

There is more that goes into the Ecoboost rod & piston upgrade than the component upgrade. From our perspective when we do one of these engines with the upgraded parts there are many other aspects of the build that increase the durability. The purpose of building an upgraded engine with better parts is to support more power, whether that be in the immediate, or in the future with other upgrades (in this case boost/fuel most likely). So when we build one of these engines the upgraded rod and piston are just one element of improving the total package. Other components are upgraded, main studs are added in place of factory bolts. Head studs as well. The changes to the engine from a machining standpoint are too numerous to list, but things like tightened clearance tolerances, revised piston to wall, different ring end gaps, block honing with deck plates, torque distortion simulated machine work, modifications of oil passages, modification of block stress points, oil pump modifications, balance work changes, etc. etc.

The rod and piston upgrade do offer a substantial increase in power capacity over the stock components, but because they are part of a complete engine build, or shortblock build, there are so many other aspects of the engine that get upgraded at the same time to meet the much higher demands of the application. All of these changes are what makes the engine capable of supporting much higher power levels. This allows for higher capacity, better performance and the ability to support much higher power levels going forward.

We've been working with Ecoboost engines for years now, and in that time we've seen a lot, and we've also worked with the OE manufacturers often on this platform. This time spent seeing the engines, building and upgrading the engines, working with the OEs, developing components and testing has all given us a ton of data to work with and build on moving forward. We've got a lot of things in the pipeline too right now, some pretty exciting ones.

So yes, some engines will fail, some won't fail. But we will always err on the side of caution when it comes to advising customers. This means trying to give the best possible information and data as we can upfront and then working with the customer to come to a decision that works for them. If the customer wants to push their stock engine hard and completely understands the risks involved in doing so, then more power to them. And if they plan to push the power and want a solid foundation to work with as they do so, then we'll definitely work with them in building a package that fits their needs exactly.