M5OD questions (93 Explorer)

[steelynirvana]

Hi New member here, bought a 93 XLT 4wd 2 weeks ago. Not my first Ford but is the first manual trans vehicle ive owned in nearly 15 years.

Anyway, my uncle taught me when your coming to a stop your supposed to "row" backwards through the gears (5-4-3-2-1) and when I do alot of times it feels like the trans is still spinning because I can feel it in the shifter and sometimes grinds for a second before it goes into gear (even though ive got the clutch to floor and can definitely tell its disengaged from the engine as the rpms go up and back down as im pressing the clutch in). What causes this?

Ive also noticed it likes to take it time going from 1st to 2nd. I can pull it down into second gear but it will be a 2-3 second delay. I can forcefully pull it but i get the feeling im hurting the trans when I do even though it doesn't grind or make noises. Just agravating I cant "speed shift" and row through the gears quickly as id like. I know they make a kit that is suposed to tighten up the shifter, would it fix this problem?

Lastly, past day or 2 ive started starting out in second gear by giving it some gas and feathering the clutch out due to the hesitation I get going from 1st to 2nd and the fact 1st seems kinda low for this truck( Have 3:73 rear end gear), takes no time at all to wind it out and I find I can get a decent start and wind up to 35 or so before having to shift into 3rd. Am I doing any damage to the clutch/trans/engine by starting out in 2nd gear?

Thanks in advance for any responses and your patience reading this (somewhat) long post

 

[Rick]

You're causing more wear on your clutch starting in second. That feathering is slippage...

It sounds like your slave cylinder may be going out. Do you have a hard time engaging reverse without grinding? If not, I'm not sure what the trouble with the shifting is. It's not a really quick shifting tranny, even with an aftermarket shifter.

 

[RangerX]

Anyway, my uncle taught me when your coming to a stop your supposed to "row" backwards through the gears (5-4-3-2-1)...

I've been driving a stick since the seventies, and I've never heard this. Apologies to your uncle, but I don't believe this is a good idea. Much better to shift to neutral and brake to a stop.
Did he give a reason why?

 

[Rick]

The way that was explained to me was that it's cheaper and easier to replace brakes than it is to replace a clutch. Every time you shift you cause some wear on the clutch, pressure place, and flywheel. You also cause more wear on the syncros and sliders.

 

[Maniak]

I've been driving a stick since the seventies, and I've never heard this. Apologies to your uncle, but I don't believe this is a good idea. Much better to shift to neutral and brake to a stop.
Did he give a reason why?

I was taught to row the gears too BUT it was so I was in the right gear already if I needed to accelerate quickly..

Over the years I've stopped doing that and now coast a lot more than I used to and it has increased my mileage. Sometimes I will hold the clutch in as I row backwards, but most times I just toss it into neutral as I'm coasting from 45 mph down to whatever and then put it back in gear when I need to continue going.

~Mark

 

[jd4242]

I ""row"" my gears also but just slightly and still use brakes.its more for truckers and for step down grades.around here in the mountains your see signs that tell you to do it""use low gear, save brakes""but thats more so the brakes dont over heat and go out, causing a run away.

 

[steelynirvana]

My Uncle didn't give me a reason why he rowed the gears back, just said it was what you were "supposed" to do.

Yes, it grinds just for a second when i go into reverse sometimes. Would bleeding the line help or is the slave cylinder shot? If it is, from what ive read the Autozone/Adavance auto ones are junk, is there a better aftermarket one or should i go to the Ford dealer and buy a genuine Ford replacement?

One thing that happened this afternoon thats got me kinda worried, on the interstate coming home, typical rush hour traffic, go then slow, going from 4th to 3rd, didn't want to go into 3rd at all had to force it and heard a loud pop fron trans. Though I screwed it up for sure as I couldn't get anything to engage but after a min trying trying everything seems to be fine, guess something got "hung up" in the trans is my therory but the engine does shudder a bit starting out in 1st and I dont think its me as im letting out with the same amount of preasure as I always have. Could the problem still be the slave cylinder?

 

[Jason94sport]

I row, I don't, just depends.......Every manual trans.
Never heard of it being a problem rowing. Might want to practice rev matching though.
The X specifically it can be a bit difficult to actual row the gears down. Sometimes I have to shift into N first or it's hard to shift & I kinda have to jam it into the lower gears. Experienced on 2 manual Explorers.
If your getting grinding though that isn't good. Slave may be going. Get a Ford/motorcraft replacement for a 96+.
Check the fluid & you can try to bleed it 1st.

 

[FR-425]

The reason for rowing gears is so that if a situation arises that requires emergency power it's ready to go.

Also, allowing the transmission input shaft to come to a stop will put additional wear on the sinkro's. Rowing down keeps the input shaft up to speed for the next shift.

If you have to come to a complete stop, it makes no difference.

Definitely a good practice when driving in snow.

Rolling in neutral is actually illegal for Heavy trucks. (No Colorado overdrive) and is also required for a standard transmission road test in the little cars.

 

[steelynirvana]

So in the past few weeks, trans has started grinding real bad in 1st sitting at a stoplight, clutch pressed in. Already had my mechanic look and test drive it, said he thought pilot bearing was sticking to input shaft and clutch was about shot. Saving my money to have a clutch replacement done.

The grinding is worrying me though, thinking about finding a junkyard trans and having him swap it while its out to do clutch replacement. Is there a 5 speed trans that would be a better upgrade and direct swap than the factory '93?

Thanks in advance

 

[jd4242]

m5HD from a 97+ 4.0 sohc good luck finding one tho, I searched for months to only find one and they wanted $750 for it....even old m5 around here go for $500ish.that blows my mind for a mass produced trans that was used in MANY vehicles. ..

 

[acschilling]

Dude. Thank you! My trans acts the same way...I gotta float it from 1st to 2nd. it does not really bother me because I'm not exactly trying to race anybody in my beast. Down-shifting from 4 to 3 grinds unless the tranny is spinning way slow. I have a year old, reputably installed Centerforce clutch; gears still act the same. Again, I don't really do anything crazy on it. I am too curios if that shifter rebuild kit helps much. No one carries it locally. I slow my roll according to what was said by Him (Rick).

 

[5spdman]

I had a similar problem a few weeks ago, and found I was low on hydraulic fluid...filled it, bled it and it worked...for a little while. Long story short, my master cylinder was leaking, so I replaced that, bled the system and found that my slave cylinder was completely shot...replaced the slave cylinder and it's shifted fine ever since. Fluid, proper bleeding, master and slave would be the first things I'd personally look into.

As far as rowing through the gears, I did that back home in Ohio, but that was when I thought I was cool with a straight pipe and liked the way the exhaust made that crackling sound when downshifting...now that I have a muffler and live where there are plenty of steep grades, I only down shift to keep from over heating the brakes when going downhill.

 

[acschilling]

I don't think you should be too worried about the trans. Depending on how old your clutch is you might need a new one though. Personally I got all new everything for the clutch since someone was gonna be down there anyway. Also Make sure the fluid in there is fresh (clutch master and trans). The M5OD doesn't do heat. You might notice it's a little smoother when cold.

 

[jd4242]

Hey any of yall know if the bell house is removable on the m5??

 

[5spdman]

All one chunk of metal.....extension housing is removable though

 

[5spdman]

Here's a quick pic:

This is the M5OD out of my 93 sport that is currently sitting in my 91 XLT, but cleaned up, new slave and fresh fluids...as you can see, almost everything from the bell housing to the extension housing is all one piece.

 

[mr cribb]

I have rowed gears for years. I've never killed a transmission over it. I was always told it saves brakes.

I did prevent an accident once driving in rush hour and the traffic went from 70 to ZERO in seconds (seemed like). I had enough time for a 5-3-1 downshift while on the brakes.

 

[Bwana Bob]

I don't know about shifting down through all the gears to first. I do downshift when I want some engine braking, like decelerating on down hill curves, exit ramps, or for limiting speed on downhill runs, especially in snow. I don't see the need to downshift any lower than 3rd if you're on level ground approaching a stoplight. To each his own.

Now, as to the the clutch, I just had my slave cylinder replaced. For years, I was having trouble putting it in first gear. At stoplights, I typically kept the clutch pedal depressed so that I could start up without struggling with the shifter. I thought that it was a bad synchro, so I just lived with it, until the slave cylinder failed this past winter. It didn't want to shift into any gear. I found the clutch fluid reservoir empty, so I refilled it and bled the clutch. After that, she shifted fine... for 2 days, then back to the same problem. I did some more troubleshooting and concluded that the slave cylinder was bad. I felt that pulling the transmission out was beyond my capability, so I took it to a reputable transmission shop. The confirmed that the slave cylinder was bad, and they also replaced the clutch, which was pretty well worn.

After they had the transmission out, they invited me to come out to the shop to see the trans, old parts, and new parts that they were installing. The shop also found that the plastic bushing at the base of the shift lever was missing, and presumed disintegrated. The shift lever has a ball at its base which, along with the bushing, forms a ball and socket joint at the top of the trans. Without this bushing, the shifter will be sloppy.

With a new slave cylinder, clutch, and bushing, my transmission is shifting better than it has in years! I no longer have trouble shifting into 1st, and the new bushing tightens up the shifter, so it doesn't shake and wiggle as I drive.

My slave cylinder must have been weak for years before it failed completely.
So, I think that a lot of hard shifting problems can be traced to a faulty slave cylinder.

Bwana Bob

 

[Nikola]

Many atempts to solve problem with M5OD, one solution wich work

Maybe is to late to reply for steelynirvana, but i don't see this post before.

I have similar problem for long time. In summer (here can reach 40 oC) I have problem to get in first and reverse, and sometimes also have grinding noise at the moment prior engaging third. Mostly i solved problem with going in to second than first, than fourth -first and so. Even, when is very hot and stuck in traffic, also must keep clutch pedal down because it was impossible to put in first or reverse without stopped the engine

Because I already have problem with my slave cylinder (which I posted earlier), first I change with new one together with clutch disk. Next hot occasion same problem. I change ATF in tranny with original Ford Mercon ATF ,but only minor improvement.

Maybe clutch fluid is boiling? OK -Changing with Motorraft super DOT 4.
Result: nothing change.

Then I got serious impulse to solve problem.
In warmest day ,I warm engine and gearbox, and immediately go under the explorer with helper to press clutch pedal and check did slave cylinder work and how much travel it do. Wait to cool and do the inspection on cold engine and gearbox. Engaging and traveling of the slave cylinder was same . So problem is not in the clutch hydraulic (master or slave cylinder or fluid)

Because in that moment I have 392.000 kilometers, maybe is clutch pressure plate (the spring is changing characteristic with temperature, became weak and don't disengage the clutch disk?)
OK. I order new clutch set (pressure plate,slave cylinder, disk, flywheel bush). Prior to instal new one in to explorer, I check and compare new pressure plate with original one (pressure to work,travel to disengage and so) Results was practically the same, with minor difference, but because a checked in cold status, I proceed.

With everything new (except master cylinder) I go in to hot "situation".
Result: nothing change.Nothing at all.

In that moment I was sure that problem is not mechanical, but physical.
In other word, problem is in ATF fluid which , when is hot, don't have enough viscosity to make friction to synchronize speed.

So I do experiments with lot of ATF : Motorcraft Mercon, Motorcraft Mercon V , Valvoline Mercon, Valvoline Mercon/DextronIII, Sheel Heavy Duty ATF, Castrol heavy duty ATF,blend with viscosity enhancer, even make own blend with ATF and 10% GL4 hypoid 80w, ATF and 20% GL , hypoid 80w , with some results.

And than I put Liqui Moly ATF III with Mercon and Dextron III specification. I don't expect to much because its viscosity and thermal characteristic was worse than heavy duty ATF's characteristics,
Problem dissapear!! Completely.
First and reverse? Like in the butter with two fingers, nothing grind, nothing push back ,nothing hesitate, in other words perfectly.
For me in that moment it so unbelievable, that I start to think that something else is changed.
So I drain that ATF and put Castrol Heavy Duty ATF (with which I have best results before) and problem is come back,
Change again to Liqui Moly and problem again disappear.

After 35.000 km I notice some minimal resistance to go into reverse in hot situation. I don't wait, change with fresh ATF , and again problem disappear. After new 40.000 km same indication, same solution.
Now my explorer have 493.800 km, and clutch and gearbox is working perfectly

So conclusion:I don't know what in that particularly ATF is working so well with M5OD, or why the others which I try don't. I certainly don't believe that only that ATF is ideal for M5OD. But,also I never expect that gearbox, in my case synchron's in gearbox , can be so sensitive to ATF.
I never have chance to check with other ATF (Amsoil and so). but after all I don't need to check

Because I see to many post with similar problem, and most of the people think that slave cylinder is causing problem, I make so long reply with all my attempts to solve the problem.

I certainly think that, in case of similar problem, it is very clever to check did the slave cylinder work properly (thru opening in bell housing), and if is work, to try solve the problem with changing ATF (in any case that is cheaper)