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M5od-r1hd?

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BMXunleashed

these came in the newer explorers with the 4.0 SOHC right?
i am under the impression that it will bolt up to the older 4.0 OHV motors...

if this swap is to be performed would i need the computer and harness from the SOHC engine or could the chip/harness from the first gen explorers with the 5speed work as well?

is it true that the newer M5OD-R1HD is stronger than the first M5OD and lower first gear?

i believe the lower first gear part because the newer engines dont produce as much low end power.....

....i know i have lots of questions but its beacsue theres lots of options for the explorers and i get confused, just lookin for some help
 



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briwayjones

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I don't know if it has a lower first gear but it's stronger. They did come in the Explorers with the SOHC briefly and in Rangers.
 






dkchrist

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there is no computer on a manual transmission and should bolt up to the older v6s i think(somebody else confirm) lower no 3.72 r1/ 3.4 r1hd but the hd has better 1st and second gear sycros
 






briwayjones

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there is no computer on a manual transmission and should bolt up to the older v6s i think(somebody else confirm) lower no 3.72 r1/ 3.4 r1hd but the hd has better 1st and second gear sycros


Yeah if you're going to bolt it up to a OHV you would still use your OHV computer. The vehicle computer doesn't do much of anything with a manual transmission.
 






BonesDT

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I've done the auto (5R55E) to manual M5OD-R1HD conversion to my 4.0L SOHC.

The R1HD was the "Heavy Duty" manual transmission used by the factory in rare post-'99 SOHC engines, such as the Ranger FX4. The R1 was used for the OHV's.

The two casings are the same, so they will both bolt up to both engines. The R1HD DOES have a lower first gear than the R1, with the other 4 gears and reverse being the same ratio. Other than that, I'm not sure what else is different from the R1, but judging from the "HD" badge, I'm guessing it's built beefier somehow to accomodate the 210hp engine (as opposed to the 160hp OHV).

You WILL have an issue with the computer. The "computer" that runs your engine is the same computer that runs your automatic transmission. So, yes, the manual transmission runs on it's own, but your computer, which is also running your engine is going to get very confused when it doesn't get readings back from your automatic, which isn't there anymore.

I am still using my factory SOHC auto computer, but I had to various circuitry to get the truck running smoothly. Right off the bat, I can tell you that you have to jump the Park or Neutral wires so you will be able to start the engine in the first place. At this point, you can "drive", but I experienced terrible roughness. It's as if the computer was killing the gas at certain points in anticipation of an automatic shift, which wasn't occuring.

I ripped out all the sensors and solenoids from the original automatic, attached them back to the wiring harness in the truck, and simply ziptied them to something stationary (be careful, they get hot, don't get them near plastic). It pretty much ran perfectly at this point except at full throttle.

I then used resistors to imitate the resistance in the original auto to jump all the wires that would tell the computer, "hey, i'm Mr. Automatic Transmission. I'm still here and feeling great. By the way, Mr. Computer, I'm in Neutral gear, so you can let me start my engine AND you don't have to worry about fuel mapping and up/downshifting. I know, I know, we're going 65-mph in neutral, but you're just going to have to trust me on this one."

Your other options, which I can't vouch for, would be to just get a new engine computer designed for a manual. Since you have an OHV it will be much easier to find than the rarer SOHC. Also, if you don't live in auto-ignorant NYC like I do, then maybe dealerships will actually know what they are doing, and can find one for you.

You can also try getting a chip made. I know, what's his name, from Diablo (oh, i forget, the guy who does all the good chips on this board though). I spoke to him once, and he said he'd give it a try.

You won't need a harness. There are 2 electrical connections to the manual transmission. The reverse gear for the lights, and there is also an output speed sensor (i think only on the HD). The 5R55E had both an input speed sensor and an output speed sensor, but I already did the work of counting the gear notches on the output speed gear, and they are not the same, so I wouldn't try hooking up the old wires to the new OS sensor. I just left the new R1HD OS sensor there to keep the fluid in the trans, but left it unconnected. The reverse gear electrical connections aren't the same, so bust out the soldering iron. Do a good job the first time with solder and heat shrinks and use silicon all over the connection so it doesn't rust off. I had to redo this a bunch of times.

Let me know if you have any more questions.
 






briwayjones

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Oh yeah if he has an automatic it will cause problems. I was thinking he was going to replace a regular M5OD with the HD version in which case it wouldn't be a problem.
 






Burns

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Oh yeah if he has an automatic it will cause problems. I was thinking he was going to replace a regular M5OD with the HD version in which case it wouldn't be a problem.

i dont have probs and i went from a al4d to a m50d and still have the stock computer.:thumbsup:
 






BonesDT

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Oh yea, if he already has a M5OD-R1, then it's a complete bolt in conversion. Go for it (get a Centerforce Dual-Friction kit while you're at it). I think the R1 doesn't have the output speed sensor, so he just won't have a wire to plug into, but that should mean nothing.

Burns, what did you do with the wiring harness. Did you just leave the whole thing disconnected? You must have at least jumped the start-up switch and wired the reverse lights?
 






Burns

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yep i have two switches inside my truck to trick the computer so i can use the starter and transfer. I never put the reverse lights back on it would be easy to do tho just another switch....i used the wireing from the auto were it would plug to the auto tranny and just spliced in there....i can get more detials if anyone needs them...
 






B

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wow thanx for all the replies, that helps a lot. this is good because i have always wanted to doa manual swap but all the M5OD stories kinda scared me (they seem to break down a lot?)...

finding the older first gen manual chip/harness should be remotly easy so i will do that just to keep things clean....

you guys with the R1HD....you drive those things hard or were you just looking for something more reliable?

when did the rangers swich over to the 4.0 SOHC? i could use the ranger chip/harness from the 4.0 OHV rangers, that would be more common i would think

thanx for the help
 






briwayjones

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when did the rangers swich over to the 4.0 SOHC? i could use the ranger chip/harness from the 4.0 OHV rangers, that would be more common i would think

As far as Rangers running a manual trans. and SOHC probably 2001. That was the first year they didn't make anymore OHV engines.
 






BonesDT

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I prolly have about 50,000 miles on the new R1HD, and I drive it HARD. I learned stick on it after I did the swap a few years ago. 'Til this day, I still amateurly grind gears every now and then. I'm actually suprised it has lasted this long. I am very rough on all my toys, it's the only way I know how to enjoy them.

I think you'll be fine. My recomendation is to use a new (and if you can find one, performance/aftermarket) slave cylinder. I blew through the factory one already. I'd also fork up the $300 for the Centerforce Dual-Friction PP and clutch kit.

You live in Cali, so if I can find all the right parts for a stick shift here, you will have no problem.

My dealership scared me away from the idea to replace my computer with a 2001 SOHC manual, because they make all their computers slightly different, and if you wire it up to a different truck, it could short the expensive computer out with no warranty.

I don't know if I believe them though. These were the same guys who asked me "Is this for an automatic or manual transmission" when I asked them I needed a clutch.

Play it by ear. You'll figure it out eventually. Have a back-up car to relieve stress. Do the mechanical swap and jump the park/neutral switch so you can start it. Drive, if it feels fine, you're good to go. If it's not running right, you can then try playing with the wires or find a computer or chip.
 






tonymac97XL

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Alright, I'm getting ready to toss some money (like I haven't already) at my explorer. My 5R55E has 139K on it, and has def seen better days (not to mention I drive it HARD). I want to do a manual swap to an M5OD (If I can find an HD, that'll be sweet, but I'm looking mainly just for manual)

My Explorer:
1997 XL OHV. 5R55E, 4WD, 3 position switch "Auto", "4HI", "4LO"

If I can unbolt the 5R and stick in the M5 (and associated hardware like computer), I'll go for it.

Thanks for the help!

--tony(Mac)
 






BonesDT

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What is your question?

Both the Mazda M5OD-R1 and M5OD-R1HD are strictly bolt-in conversions for the 5R55E auto. You will need lots of new parts though, including, but not limited to, engine-to-transmission plate, starter, different bellhousing to engine block bolts, etc.

Keep in mind you'll want to be looking for a 4x4 M5OD so that it will bolt straight up to your t-case (driveshafts are the same and transmission crossmember is bolt-up). I don't know for sure, but I'm guessing if you got an M5OD for a 2wd, you can either bolt-up your 5R55E extension housing, or just purchase the extension housing, the rest of the trans should be the same (M5OD's are one piece with their bellhousing).

If you found your tranny and your handy with a wrench, then you only got 2 issues: 1) scavenging all the parts, a donor makes it easy, i bought everything new from the dealership. 2) the computer and wiring harness is tricky. being you have a '97 OHV, that means Ford actually made '97 OHV's with a stick shift, so there is a comp out there for you, whether it is donor or new. Same with the harness, but the harness is BIG. I opted the solder route. You could try getting a chip burned, but be wary.
 






tonymac97XL

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Thanks for the info, you actually answered my question perfectly. I'm in an area with extensive junkyards (Flint/Detroit), and wanted to know if I was going to end up needing to change the TC/etc. I figured on pulling it from a donor at a junkyard, doing a rebuild, and swapping it into mine. I assume a donor will have all of the parts you listed, minus maybe the computer I need.

Last note: I reread my above post, noting the lack of a ? anywhere in it. My apologies.
 






Maniak

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One thing to keep in mind.. If your putting a manual into a 1st gen, you can just drop in two 33 ohm resisters and then the computer will think the auto trans is still there.. OR just hook the two solenoids up (that were in the auto trans) to the wireing harness and just wire tie them out of the way.. You don't really need to change the computer.

~Mark
 






tonymac97XL

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would the computer out of a 99 explorer manual work in a 97 explorer? Also, does it make a difference if it's 2 or 4 door?

Better yet, would someone with a 97 manual and 4wd (OHV) give me the ECU part number? I looked it up on EverDrive, and found 3 different ones. :(
 






Nocturnall

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2 door - 4 door shouldn't matter but OHV or SOHC engine will matter. I also had read that the timing curve is different on an auto then a manual, dunno if there is any truth to that. Couldn't a tune be burned for the comp? Gives you a reason to buy a SCT Xcal 2. Bones how much did the swap end up running you? I think I could find all the parts I need here in Arizona, lot's of junked cars due to HORRIBLE drivers.
 






tonymac97XL

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Yeah, I just searched everdrive for parts, they list 3 for 1997 OHV manual:

F77F-GA/GB/GC

Now, call me dumb, but couldn't that last letter just be revision? My auto is an F77F-AJC, updated by ford at some point in it's life (before I got it). The Auto's likewise came in AJA/B/C varieties.

@Bones: Without the OSS, doesn't your speedometer read 0 all the time?
 



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BonesDT

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The swap cost me roughly $2500. That included a brand new R1HD transmission (designed for a SportTrac) and shipping ($1000) and all brand new parts, flywheel, clutch kit, hydraulic clutch hosing, pedals, bolts, etc. from the dealership. I splurged and bought everything, including the black plastic block that replaces the "P R D 1 2 3" in the instrument panel. Also included was the limited edition chrome Ranger FX4 shifter ($100) and ball ($85). I never got a wiring harness or computer though. Around here, I don't have the luxury of finding donors.

My speedometer works. To tell you the truth, I'm not exactly sure where the Speedometer speed sensor is located, but I think it's in the rear differential.

The 5R55E automatic trans has an Input Shaft Speed (ISS) Sensor as well as an Output Shaft Speed (OSS) Sensor. These are solely used for the computer to do its thing with shifting the auto, it has nothing to do with your speedometer.

The M5OD-R1 manual trans shouldn't have any speed sensors. Actually, the only electrical connector should be the reverse gear sensor used for the backup lights. (on a side note, it is also used for the automatic door locks, which I think was only an option on auto trans models. when you had the automatic trans, you ALWAYS had to shift through Reverse to go to any gear, so after that's triggered and you release the brake, the doors lock. after the manual conversion, the doors will only lock if you go to reverse first.)

Interestingly, my R1HD happen to need an OSS. I couldn't find any documentation that reflects this (Haynes or factory manual). I had to get the special sensor to plug up the hole, but I never wired it up. I have no idea what it is for. The OSS may be unique to the HD version, or to later model HD's. It certainly isn't for a speedometer, since it comes before the transfer case.
 






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