Maximum Traction Solution - 4th Gen Differential Tech

[Bazz270]

But don't forget that Dana designs and makes axles for many different car makers according to their specs. You would think they would recycle a lot of parts but sometimes they may not be able to. And they may not care about the cost savings from reusing parts as that contract more than pays for itself. I don't think that Dana tells the car manufacturers 'Here is what we have - which one do you want'.

The only relation between Dana and Ford Dana is the production license.

Dana changed for ford almost everything in Gen 4 and Gen3 Explorers.

And yes,according to the tonnes of bullshit on WWW ,Dana 30 are all the same in all cars.

But it is not truth at all.

Even Gen3 and Gen4 are not the same.they are sharing several parts between each other but they are different.

 

[07offroad]

Exactly...but whatever

What is the plan to fit em?how do you get the longer pinion shaft?

As far as i know you will need to change the rear gear ratio too.

You better buy more offroad reliable car that this giant Gen4 mall crawler LOL.
I mean.. you are spending your money and time to emprove gen4 zero offroad capabilites...why?

Actually to be honest,Ive tried to fit several spare parts from Jeep's front axle in the past,no one worked for me.but i wish you a good luck anyway..maybe some parts will work for you.

By the way

Dana 30 are not considered to be the offroad heavy duty one.it is totally low spec ,regular,medium capability SUV axle.

You contribute nothing to this thread I really wish you would just stop commenting

 

[Bazz270]

Whatever

 

[07offroad]

Whatever

You go on about obvious stuff. If I was regearing the front I would quiet clearly regear the rear. Obviously I am having issues with the front. People who have regeared and posted in this thread have said that jeep Dana (varying) have the same or usable ring and pinion. You havent read a single page of this thread, obviously and instead keep questioning my motives. I don't need to explain or entertain bud. I came here for help and your just annoying me. My truck is on 35s. I trail ride it. Yes it's capable. I'm looking for actual help and not speculations or opinion.

 

[Bazz270]

Dear friend

You dont have to be so obsessive about other's opinion or any content virtual comment.i am free to say whatever i wish and you are free to put me on "ignore".


You dont really have to read my posts.

Take it easy.there is a lot of bullshit on www,you need to know how to filter all of it (includes this thread contains).

 

[Josh P]

What I'm wondering is if the dana 30 is like the ford 8.8, if you regear from 3.73 to 4.10 the pinion is the same. I realize you went with 4.56, I wondering about the information in the 1st post.

 

[CDW6212R]

You go on about obvious stuff. If I was regearing the front I would quiet clearly regear the rear. Obviously I am having issues with the front. People who have regeared and posted in this thread have said that jeep Dana (varying) have the same or usable ring and pinion. You havent read a single page of this thread, obviously and instead keep questioning my motives. I don't need to explain or entertain bud. I came here for help and your just annoying me. My truck is on 35s. I trail ride it. Yes it's capable. I'm looking for actual help and not speculations or opinion.

I've read much of the earliest posts of this thread, plus the last page or so I think. I was hoping to learn anything interesting about the 3rd and 4th gen diff's. I had read that they were a Dana 30, but thought that wouldn't be true, the 1st and 2nd gen's having Dana 35 front diff's(each different also).

I'm disappointed to read that there is trouble getting Jeep Dana 30 parts to work in those Explorers. The 95-01's use the exact same Jeep rear Dana 35 gears, that was convenient when I was buying a front set.

Here's an odd question I had from the first of this thread; How different is the entire front diff assembly, from a 2nd gen front diff? They look similar in size and the mounting method. The 2nd gen uses a steel bracket mounted to the side of the diff, to hang that from the rearward frame point. If the other two mounts were the same or close enough with a 2nd gen assembly, then possibly that rear bracket might be workable.

 

[Josh P]

A quick google search, I learned the 99-04 Grand Cherokee has a short pinion. The WJ is an odd ******* compared to all the other jeeps, many parts do not easily interchange. I'd look at the pinion on a 93-98 Grand Cherokee dana 30.

 

[Dsycks]

This post just got me to sign up for this forum. Seriously. I don't tend to buy in on most groups as the info in them tends to be surface and technically questionable. This post however is solid gold. THANK YOU for not only dealing with this truck and its specific hardware needs in regard to parts content but also strong use of theory and application in regards to how this particular platform will work with the LSD options secondary to its electronic aids.

Now that that is out of the way.. I do not tend to like helical torsen diffs. As is pointed out, when one tire gets off the ground and is unloaded, the diff is pointless. BUT as is pointed out, the electronic aids jumping in will act to eliminate this flaw that would otherwise be a deal breaker. WELL PLAYED!

So, does that mean we don't want a locker? Umm... I don't know. I think that is going to depend on your use and application. As I am looking to and willing to give up some on road performance for off road performance, a locker in the rear may still make sense for some. An electronic locker is expensive but almost impossible to beat for the strong advantage it will give for serious off road use.

I am NOT done digging through this whole thread but what I really want more of is a deeper understanding of the center diff and what modification if any may be advantageous.

Thanks again for all the hard work and good data!

 

[Dsycks]

About to dig in and really try to take in as much technical detail from this as possible. It seems as if the author may not be currently active?
They don't have any Explorer content on YouTube for almost 10 years but do have some Toyota content in the last year.

I MAY be trying to do some practical application and right now, I am pondering a clutch LSD rear and a helical front. Reason for this is that I don't want the rear to ever be open and clutch diffs split the difference between lockers and helical nicely as they are smooth and allow some slip but still work if one wheel gets into the air.

For the front, I am willing to give up a little performance in the name of smoothness and there are not as many options for a Dana 30 as there are for the 8.8 rear. With that said, if there is a decent clutch front diff at a decent price, I may just go that direction.

Gear swap is likely and I am thinking 4.11 as I am targeting 33" tires.

SMALL Body lift is possible and I don;t want to mess with the suspension geometry much. I will happily cut the fenders and beat body seams to get clearance. Will also likely run spacers if needed as the reports that they will kill you are overblown. We run pretty huge spacers on one of our race cars and while we are not running super heavy tires we are doing well over 100 competition hours with 1.2 sustained static G loading on a 3000lb car with no signs of distress before we age out the spacers on caution alone. Use good parts with an eye to responsible safety and trust math.

If I can cut some weight and get the details right, end result will hopefully allow me to keep up with some mild Jeep builds on some of the area trails.

 

[Fix4Dirt]

About to dig in and really try to take in as much technical detail from this as possible. It seems as if the author may not be currently active?
They don't have any Explorer content on YouTube for almost 10 years but do have some Toyota content in the last year.

I MAY be trying to do some practical application and right now, I am pondering a clutch LSD rear and a helical front. Reason for this is that I don't want the rear to ever be open and clutch diffs split the difference between lockers and helical nicely as they are smooth and allow some slip but still work if one wheel gets into the air.

For the front, I am willing to give up a little performance in the name of smoothness and there are not as many options for a Dana 30 as there are for the 8.8 rear. With that said, if there is a decent clutch front diff at a decent price, I may just go that direction.

Gear swap is likely and I am thinking 4.11 as I am targeting 33" tires.

SMALL Body lift is possible and I don;t want to mess with the suspension geometry much. I will happily cut the fenders and beat body seams to get clearance. Will also likely run spacers if needed as the reports that they will kill you are overblown. We run pretty huge spacers on one of our race cars and while we are not running super heavy tires we are doing well over 100 competition hours with 1.2 sustained static G loading on a 3000lb car with no signs of distress before we age out the spacers on caution alone. Use good parts with an eye to responsible safety and trust math.

If I can cut some weight and get the details right, end result will hopefully allow me to keep up with some mild Jeep builds on some of the area trails.

one thing to consider with the clutch base is that they do wear out, could be fast could be slow depending on your driving usage etc. for that reason i do wonder if something like a torsen is better. or another option is an auto locker like the no slip etc if thats available, since imo it acts somewhat similiar to an LS-ish if you have one with good stdeet manners. another option is at least on the 2g you can run an f150 s speing and add one more clutch iirc and it makes the LS lock up much harde

and it does not aprar as if op has been on recently since 2019

 

[Dsycks]

Upside for me is that we build and tune clutch type diffs in house for race cars and we have a good understanding of what makes them happy and what gives them the sads.

I am torn as I like the helical for on street stuff but for off road, there are REAL limitations. But the electronics package help cover some of that up.
Its not a simple choice.

With that said, some of the cheapest options for the 8.8 are clutch type diffs. Its also easy to get in to and change stuff. So..

 

[Fix4Dirt]

Upside for me is that we build and tune clutch type diffs in house for race cars and we have a good understanding of what makes them happy and what gives them the sads.

I am torn as I like the helical for on street stuff but for off road, there are REAL limitations. But the electronics package help cover some of that up.
Its not a simple choice.

With that said, some of the cheapest options for the 8.8 are clutch type diffs. Its also easy to get in to and change stuff. So..

oh, then forget what i said!!!!!!!!!! if ya build em ya know better than me

 

[Dsycks]

Its not like that. You are pointing out SUPER valid things that SHOULD be part of this public discussion.

What is right for me may not be right for others and we should all always be aware of the facts that individual needs can trump usual best practice.

I like helical diffs and the thinking of the author of this thread makes some great points. Overall, it should maybe be pointed out that overall in the off road community, helical are the least popular option and there are reasons for that.