Moab Expedition Trip April 17-25, 2012

[Brian1]

...Brian1, a couple questions for ya...

...Is it worth going down lower butler wash rd. south and then coming back north on comb wash rd?...I see their is cliff dwellings on the lower butler but was wondering if the other side of comb ridge is equally pleasing...:scratch:

I dont know, I have never been on either road! I have only driven past Comb on the pavement and seen lots of cool trip reports and pictures from the area. I will check my guide books over the next few days and see if one is worth doing over the other (or both).

 

[Martinjmpr]

Crosspost...

(Crossposted from http://www.expeditionportal.com)

If we plan on doing White Rim we're going to have to get a vehicle count and get our camping permits squared away. I haven't checked the web site in a few months but there is a limit to the number of vehicles that can be at a campsite on White Rim and in other areas of Canyonlands.

We have several "maybes" here, but we're either going to have to try and nail them down to yes/no or have them join us after White Rim (if we even decided to do White Rim.) If we stay on BLM land, there shouldn't be a problem with our group being too large (and in my experience, people inevitably drop out before the trip anyway so it's never as big as you think it's going to be.)

Just a planning consideration we don't want to leave to the last minute...

 

[Tbars4]

...Copied from over there too and earlier today..

...Scott and I are actually together at this very moment in California discussing all this and working on the plans..

..$10 entry at canyonlands and 3 vehicles to back country permit at $30 for a total of $20 per truck in groups of 3...This is not an "Organized run" and this will further be discussed at the Trail meeting on the first day...

 

[Scott B.]

I really want to run White Rim - I think the 100 mile trail will be quite spectacular scenery-wise.

We will just have to run as small "groups" - who happen to run together.

 

[Tbars4]

..We will be over in "Island in the Sky" and run "White Rim"...:biggthump

..From how this is shaping up, "White rim" will just be in the average range compared to the scenery in other locations of this trip..

 

[GJarrett]

White Rim is an awesome adventure. However: it took us a long time to get to the campground; the last several miles to get there were in the dark at night (it was fairly attention-getting while traversing switchbacks on the side of a canyon in the dark ). If you do it, I'd suggest leaving very early, or split it into a three day run instead of a two day run like we did.

 

[Tbars4]

..Scott B., Just a note for fueling at White rim..Need at least to carry 5 gals. just in case of "Turn Backs" due to conditions...

There is a gas station right before you head up highway 313.

..Gerald...We are leaning more toward 3 days on White Rim..:biggthump

 

[Martinjmpr]

..Scott B., Just a note for fueling at White rim..Need at least to carry 5 gals. just in case of "Turn Backs" due to conditions...

If we fill up in Moab we can avoid UT313 altogether - just take the Potash Road, (UT 279) right out of Moab (just after you cross the CO river.) It starts off as paved but then turns to dirt. Just inside Canyonlands it intersects with the Shafer trail (the switchbacks going up to the "top" of Canyonlands) and that is where White Rim Road begins.

 

[Tbars4]

...And with bad weather, where is the closest fuel near "White Rim" ..?

..I will not be carrying 10-20 gal.'s of fuel just in case..We have been working on both fair weather and bad weather trails for the whole trip and will post them up in the next week or so..

 

[GJarrett]

FYI 4 dr Explorers probably won't need extra fuel to run White Rim; 2 dr Sports with the smaller fuel tank will want to take a few gallons in a jerry can. Just in case. As I recall, I didn't need to refuel, but Leebo gladly accepted a couple extra gallons off of my safari rack before we got off the trail.

 

[Happy Jack]

Is it worth going down lower butler wash rd. south and then coming back north on comb wash rd?...I see their is cliff dwellings on the lower butler but was wondering if the other side of comb ridge is equally pleasing...:scratch:

I was away for the holidays and it looks like I have some catching up to do. I have been on both of those roads. They are roads. No real wheeling but there are hikes to rock art and ruins. I have not been on White Rim but neither Butler Wash or Comb Ridge roads compare to Beef Basin or Lockhart Rd. for me. Again it's why Baskin Robbins made 31 flavors. Folks like different stuff. I like Comb Wash over Butler Wash rd. But I don't hike. So others who main goal is to walk off the rd. and find the stuff may not agree.

Some info on what I know of that area. I have camped many times in Comb Wash. Both up off of 95 west of Blanding and 163 west of Bluff. Off of 95 east of Comb Wash (aprox. 5-7 miles) is the Butler Wash ruins: http://hikearizona.com/decoder.php?ZTN=1293 They have a pit tolet. You have a marked trail to hike to a overlook to look down on the ruins. On 95 west of Comb Wash (aprox. 5 miles) is a road side rest area with some ruin foundations they call Mule Canyon Ruins. They have a pit tolet and a very small area like the Anisazi Park over in Boulder, UT. If you continue south in Comb Wash from 163 west of Bluff to San Jaun Hill, there are some nice ruins you can drive to east a short distance. You can also hike a northern route to them. That is 4wd to San Juan Hill and depends on snow melt if you can get to it. The trail crosses the wash many times and it can be full of water. The only other ruins I know of in the area you can drive to are west over just west of Clay Hills Pass on 276. This is where 276 follows the HITR road and the pioneers in 1879 baked bread in an oven the Anisazi had built in those ruins. Or up in Beef Basin are these: http://www.mappyjack.com/BefBas.htm And there are some others in Beef Basin you can hike to and more to the north of Beef Basin you can drive to.

I have better cell and air card service in Blanding than in Bluff. Also good cell service at the Mule Canyon rest area on 95 5 miles west of Comb Wash. Blanding has lower prices and more services than Bluff. Last 2 times I was there I woke up early in Comb Wash off of 163 and headed into Bluff for breakfast. The restaurant had wifi and computers you could use. They did have a small charge.

Hope that all helps out some. Don't know how much time you all plan to spend hiking

 

[Tbars4]

FYI 4 dr Explorers probably won't need extra fuel to run White Rim; 2 dr Sports with the smaller fuel tank will want to take a few gallons in a jerry can. Just in case. As I recall, I didn't need to refuel, but Leebo gladly accepted a couple extra gallons off of my safari rack before we got off the trail.

..Still bustin Leebo's chops..:

..I will be in my Ranger and although I get great gas mileage (and it works out to the 4.0L Rangers range), I only have a 16 gal. tank. With the chance of possibly some severe weather, I would love to find a map of the areas that just had "Services" on it such as fuel...

...And although we will have a couple hikers with us..:shifty_ey .. I prefer not to hike more than 1/2 mile out and 1/2 mile back to the truck on these runs in very good weather..

..Thanks for the added info as we keep looking at it all...:biggthump

 

[Martinjmpr]

..Still bustin Leebo's chops..:

..I will be in my Ranger and although I get great gas mileage (and it works out to the 4.0L Rangers range), I only have a 16 gal. tank. With the chance of possibly some severe weather, I would love to find a map of the areas that just had "Services" on it such as fuel...

Ted: AFAIK Moab will be the nearest. However, you should be fine, really. The route will be a ~120 mile "loop" going clockwise from Moab, then West along the CO river, turning North along the Green, and then (presumably) returning East via Mineral Bottom Road to US191, and then straight South to Moab again. Even if you only get 10mpg you should have a decent margin of safety there. I will be carrying 5 gallons like I did at DVNP (though I'll put it on the roof rack this time so my truck doesn't smell like gas fumes) and if we all carry at least one can we should be fine.

EDITED TO ADD: Someone said there was a gas station where UT313 hits US191. Looking on Google Maps I don't see a gas station but I do see a commercial campsite, and they often have fuel at such campsites (although usually at highway robbery prices.) We will hit UT313 coming out of Mineral Bottom road unless we decide to take Gemini Bridges back (it's a nice drive and a very mild 4wd trail) but in any case the junction of US191/UT313 is only about 10 miles from Moab anyway.

To be honest, I think we might have more fuel "issues" once we get away from Moab, depending on the route we take. Lockhart Basin is ~40 miles IIRC and by the time it gets to pavement it's well away from most settlements. Having not been in that area I don't know where the gas is. The map shows developed campsites at the visitor center and Squaw Flat but doesn't indicate whether there is gas there (Google Maps shows a "Canyonlands Resort" with a small airport. Given that there's an airport there, there might be a gas station for cars as well.)

The NPS web site says this about Canyonlands:

Food, gas, lodging and similar services are not available in Canyonlands. These are available nearby towns of like Green River, Hanksville, Moab and Monticello. Visit the Grand County Travel Council for more information.

If we want to head South from the Needles down Elephant Hill or Beef Basin we're going to have to do some fuel planning, I think. We may even have to consider side trips to Monticello or Blanding to gas up.

I believe there is gas at the Hite Marina off of UT95 (actually I'd be shocked if there wasn't - those big houseboats don't have sails on them!) but I don't know the specifics or the hours of operation (though by late April everything should be open for the season.) There is also an RV park at Fry Canyon, Southeast of Hite Marina off of UT95 and I presume they would sell gas there as well.

Further South and West I'm pretty sure there is a gas station at the Cal Black airfield off of UT 276 near Hole In The Rock trail, at least there was in 1999 when I was there last. There may also be a gas station further to the East but I'm not certain about that.

Final planning note: We should definitely plan on ending up at least one night in Valley of the Gods. We can come down UT261 over Moki Dugway after checking out the Goosenecks, and either camp on top of the plateau (near Goosenecks) or at the base of the Plateau at Valley of the Gods.

As I said before, once we get to Mexican Hat, we're on the Rez and have to camp in developed campsites.

 

[Tbars4]

...Just a note but we will be going thru Monticello after WRT..

...Scott B. is in transit from Cali to Georgia and when he gets home we will post up the somewhat confirmed general route..

 

[Happy Jack]

Ted: AFAIK Moab will be the nearest.
EDITED TO ADD: Someone said there was a gas station where UT313 hits US191. I do see a commercial campsite, and they often have fuel at such campsites (although usually at highway robbery prices.) We will hit UT313 coming out of Mineral Bottom road unless we decide to take Gemini Bridges back (it's a nice drive and a very mild 4wd trail) but in any case the junction of US191/UT313 is only about 10 miles from Moab anyway. Yup there is a campground up that way on the east side of the road, or was a few years ago when I was last out that way.

To be honest, I think we might have more fuel "issues" once we get away from Moab, depending on the route we take. Lockhart Basin is ~40 miles IIRC and by the time it gets to pavement it's well away from most settlements.
Not exactly. There is a campground a few miles west just outside the the Needles District called the Needles Outpost. http://canyonlandsneedlesoutpost.com/servicesavailable.html The prices are pretty high though. Last time the folks I was with just put in 5 galons or so to get them to Moab. We came up from Blanding over Big Notch through Beef Basin and over Elephant. The north end of Lockhart can wash out so I took fuel so I could make it back south again. Not a problem going north to south though.

If we want to head South from the Needles down Elephant Hill or Beef Basin we're going to have to do some fuel planning, I think. We may even have to consider side trips to Monticello or Blanding to gas up.Back way into Blanding is nice. And the old highway is a cool place going down into Comb Wash right by the trail heads for Arch Canyon and Hotel Rock. There are ruins you can drive right up to a short distance up Arch Canyon trail. Both the desent from Comb Ridge and Arch Canyon are 4 wheel drive.

I believe there is gas at the Hite Marina off of UT95 (actually I'd be shocked if there wasn't - those big houseboats don't have sails on them!) but I don't know the specifics or the hours of operation (though by late April everything should be open for the season.) There is also an RV park at Fry Canyon, Southeast of Hite Marina off of UT95 and I presume they would sell gas there as well.
Never fueled at Hite but I did research once and they had pay at the pump after hours same as at Halls Crossing. Hite never had anything on the highway I can remember. You have to turn off and go down to stuff. I have used the Cal Black airport 10 miles east of Halls Crossing also. Bullfrog has lots of stuff for fuel and services. Last March the Ferry between Halls Crossing and Bullfrog was down and we had to drive around through Hite and filled up north of Bullfrog before going up Capital Reef over the Burr Trail to Boulder.

Just some info. HITR has changed a lot since the 90's. There is a new way in over Nokai Dome rd. now. Sorry for the little high jack. Cabin fever must be hackin on me.

 

[Scott B.]

Itinerary

TBars and I got together over the holidays, and came up with this tentative itinerary. We are keeping it loose, since routes may need to change due to inclement weather. Also, some sights might be more (or less) interesting than others, so we want to remain flexible.


Meeting Place

Green River, UT

We plan to arrive in Green River on Tuesday, April 17 – by the end of day.


Day 1 - Wednesday

Canyonlands National Park
White Rim Trail

Camp at Airport


Day 2 - Thursday

Canyonlands National Park
White Rim Trail

Camp at Labyrinth and Potato Bottom


Day 3 - Friday

Canyonlands National Park
White Rim Trail


Day 4, 5 - Saturday, Sunday

Arches National Park
Spend the day in ANP, entering the west entrance or south entrance (main gate) depending on the weather.

Sites to be determined.

Camp outside of park.


Day 6, 7 - Monday, Tuesday

Comb Ridge


Day 8 - Wednesday

Valley of the Gods
Moki Dugway

If there is time,
Guided tour through the bottom of the canyon outside of Chinle, AZ.

And, for those going eastbound, we could spend a few hours and run La Bajada trail south of Santa Fe, NM.


It should be obvious, but –
Anyone wanting to run with us is free to come and go as you see fit – see the sights you want, and join us when you want.

 

[Happy Jack]

Folks are welcome stop over at my place if you want. I don't have any extra beds but we could work something out.

I still haven't decided if I am going yet.

 

[Martinjmpr]

Scott, I replied on ExPo as well, but what are your plans for Tuesday night? Staying in a motel in Green River?

Also just some info for those not familiar with the area: Green River is a very small town. I'm not even sure if they have any major chain grocery stores. Ice and gasoline and some groceries are available in Green River, but there's not much else there. For any last-minute groceries, I'd suggest either the big Wally World in Grand Junction, CO (100 miles East of Green River) or one of the chain grocery stores in Moab, UT (52 miles SE of green River.)

 

[Happy Jack]

Threre used to be a small grocery store on the main street but it was really high priced. That one may be closed now. There is another lower priced grocery store south of the main street a little farther west of where it was http://www.yellowpages.com/green-river-ut/mip/melon-vine-food-store-13816324?lid=13816324 . They are a regular grocery store and have always had what I needed, but as was said they are not a Super Walmart or King Soopers. The West Winds truck stop and Gas N Go of course have little stuff.

I have camped at the Crystall Geyser or Smith's Cabin before. If you'd like gps I can provide it. You can get showers at the West Winds truck stop or there is a campground south and just east of the West Winds that I like for showers. Others seem to cost more and take longer to get IIRC. And there are a number of campgrounds and motels. The West Winds restaurant even had a small liquor store in the front last time I was there. The City Park is a good place to meet. They have public restrooms and plenty of parking. Spent many a hour setting and reading a book waiting for folks to arrive. I do recomend the 20 minute chicken at the West Winds restaurant if you decide not to cook.

 

[mjmcdowell]

MOAB Expedition 2012

Can't wait!, Can't wait! I am all set, west to Green River Utah!!! let the fun begin! I will give myself a week or so to get there so I don't have to push I know I will have to stop in the Rockies to "smell the roses" a few times and a stop in Golden to see my son. Two more months and I'll be on the road, oh, I have a book of photos from last years trip to share with everyone. stay safe, Michael