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moose and hunting

moose1

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By now Im sure everyone knows my views on hunting and animals in general, but this mourning somthing interested happend. I was debating the hunting aspect with a hunter whom I work with, and he said somthing that realy made me think, and change my view on hunters for thew good.

He said, " If I dont hunt they will over populate and then people with no exsperience in hunting will start killing, and with there lack of knolage itll be less humane than exsperienced hunters use, at least a exsperienced hunter such as myself knows the kill spots and attempts to usew them to minimize suffering, and uses what they kill not kill just to do so, imagine the amount of dead and mutilated animlas because of inexsperienced hunters killing just because they are over crowded", so I thought about it and was unable to come up with a response other than, "you are right"

So to all the hunters on this forum, from me to you,"sorry for the b.s Ive given in other threds, and thanks for hunting in a humane way, so that people dont take population control into there hands".
 


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section525

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moose1

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hu????
 




dreamr

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MMMMM Venison steaks...........Just bought my tag........mainly as the daughter requests I make it all into jerky if I get one.....

Of course I should be more sporting and use my bow, but I thinks the 30/30 will have to suffice this year untill I do a bit of work to that old bow.

I often wonder about the anti-hunting folks for the very reason of population control. As we ignorant humans continue to encroach upon and destroy wild habitat of many species of wildlife they are suffering. In the midwest, eastern us, and some of the western u.s. the habitat is so limited that it can only support "x" amount of deer or etc.... Sadly the deer reproduce at a higher rate than their habitat's allow for. This in turn will lead to Starvation and the spread of disease to thin the herd. Now tell me which is worse a bullet even with a slower kill, or death by starvation or disease?

Hunting is one thing you should not concern yourself with. Each states respective Fish and Wildlife departments does extensive research into the wildlife patterns in their respective jurisdictions. The number of available deer tags as well as the length of the hunting seasons is based on these findings. If there are only a few deer for some reason there is no open season( I have seen this in Idaho due to fires pushing game into Montanna and Wyoming). I have also seen a population explosion occur. The Fish and game department gave you 2 tags instead of just one, and we filled them. There are also a variety of special permit hunts that focus in on specific population control, and these often change year to year.

Enough of me getting on my soap box, but I am pumped to have my first fall hunting in 9 years planned ;)
 




unclemeat

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Some other things to consider, Hunters pay for conservation. They have a vested intrest in preserving the population which they hunt.

Unfortuantly, we the white man have removed most natural preditors from our eco-system. In Virginia, we have the white tail deer for example. There are currently more deer today than before the white man came to this area, overpopulation. The area which the deer roam is smaller. We rely on the hunters to thin the herd. In the last few years we have had several outbreaks of deadly deer deseases. The result has been suffering and damage to the deer population. Also, deer are notorious for colliding with cars. They usually loose. They sometimes even cause serious injury and death to the drivers.

It may seem cruel and inhumahe to hunt, but given the other options it is not.

FYI, I am not a hunter. I do my best work in the grocery store, where I get a 100% sucess rate from my hunting.
 




moose1

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You are right, the other option is alot more cruel than allwoing exsperienced people to control the population, rather than allowing sickness and accidents as well as frustrated people.
 




rookieshooter

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Yea Moose. My father never hunted. Just could not pull the trigger on any thing. Except for the bad guys in WW11. I guess he had his share of guns. But would did not mind me hunting. Least it kept me out of trouble as a kid. He would eat venison though. The thing he did not like about some hunters was boosting about the kill. Which I try not to do especially around non hunters.
 




james t

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unclemeat said:
Some other things to consider, Hunters pay for conservation. They have a vested intrest in preserving the population which they hunt.
True. Not only do they pay for the conservation through the purchase of liscenses, but many contribute on their own time. Most deer hunters around here plant food plots and manage the area they hunt. Me for example-

I usually take one or two whitetail deer per year. All of which is eaten (i dont hunt for horns). On the 100 acre spot i hunt i plant about 4 acres of greens, rye grass, and peas both in the fall before season and during the spring. I also have several mineral licks which provide vital nutrients for their growth and development. My food plots are feeding hundreds of deer, rabbits, turkeys, and other indigenous wildlife that i will probably never hunt... and feeding them year round. The extra nutrition really helps the deer herd especially in times of drought when there is a low winter food supply (not enough acorns, etc.). I do not hunt over the food plot so dont think of it as baiting. When i was a kid, this area was open land and was nearly destroyed by dumping and vandalizim. But, due to most of the land being leased now the hunters keep the dumpers away. If i could show you pics of the woods circa 1986 vs. now in 2006 you would not even recognize it.

Most of the hunters i know just like being in the woods and taking part in nature- honestly the kill is not the most important part to me. I will probably go hunting 30-40 times this season, and probably only take one deer. Those other 39 times are just as fun. Its just another way to enjoy nature and get back to a simpler, more primative time. If i improve the quality of life for other forms of wildlife along the way then great, thats what its all about to me anyway. Hunting is give and take. It should be 95% give and 5% take. I ate 2 deer last year but i gave 100 others something to eat year round and made the woods in which they live free of garbage, dumping, and general environmental destruction. If my father and i were not hunting and managing this area right now, it would either still be ravaged by dumping and vandalizm or every bit of it would be cut down and it would be a housing development.
 




rookieshooter

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James your so right about the kill. Majority of times people will ask me did I get anything. 90% of time my answere is, nope, just took gun for a walk. It really is just getting out and seening mother nature. I just got back from the woods today picking Paw Paws. Now if it was hunting season also the only thing diferent would be that I would have had my gun depending if it was small game or large.
It's interesting that people that studey human behaivor say about one out of 12 have the instinct to hunt. I've allwaysed said that those ought to be the ones hunting. It is so hard wired in to those. It's not like playing ball or anythngk like that. But guys that love to hunt have a hard time trying to expain it.
 




moose1

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James T, you are the type of hunter Im glad we have, I cannot imagine the finacial burden you take in providing the food sources you do to the animals, my only concern is the animals getting dependant on the provisions you provided, and the impact it will have when you no longer provide them. I know the feeling of the hunt, Ive enjoyed being up in the tree stand for hours but with my camra not a gun or bow, its a rush when you hear the cracking of somthing walking near you, but you cant move to see it for the fear of spooking it yet your unsure of the noise, could it be a deer, a squirrle or just the wind, the moments leading up to the contact point of your eyes and the animals are as exciting as it is nerve racking, but itll never beet waking up after dosing off to see them right in front of you looking at you.
 




james t

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Im not too concerned on them being dependant on it- its more of a supplement. A couple of acres of food plot in the middle of a couple thousand acres of woodlands isnt going make anything dependant. It just helps a little in times of need. The deer move alot, its not like they stay in our area. If they walk through our area and get a snack on the way to somewere else then its all good. If i give you a handful of peanuts and a good multi-vitamin every day then you arent going to depend on me for all of your nutritional needs... your going to get 3 squares somewere else. :D
 




sn0border88

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Since i dont own land, I dont have any food plots. But if i could I would.

My relatives who own several hundred acres have a large clover/alfa plot with some wild turkey feeders filled with corn. Its just a little bit considering the area these deer graze over but its nice to know, like said before, thats your giving back more than what you take. The old conservation/overpopulation argument is definatly a good one, but hunters have been so driven away in some areas of new jersey that professional sharpshooters have been called in. They take several HUNDRED deer a week, some take that many in a night. They hunt using a spot light and just shoot at whatever they can. I dont know what is done with the meat but I cant imagine its the best solution.

but im glad to see you can admit when your wrong, it takes some guts to do that.
 




GJarrett

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Hunters are the ones that support wetlands, habitats, acreage, feeding/breeding programs, etcetcetc to help wildlife. Hunting license fees, duck stamps, etc pour millions of dollars into keeping our wildlife heritage. Who buys them? Yep, hunters do.

Colorado did an experiment a couple of decades ago wherein they gave non-hunters a chance to put their money where their mouth was and actually support wildlife habitats and such. A statewide program was given megapublicity to encourage non-hunters to buy special non-hunting stickers and wallet cards while paying the same fees that hunters did to get their hunting licenses. I forgot the specific numbers but it fell flat on its face; the non-hunters bought something like a measly couple of thousand dollars worth of support to wildlife.
 




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BrooklynBay

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I don't get the opportunity to see wild animals roaming the streets in Brooklyn other than some kids which I will not compare to animals (but sometimes feel they are)! What are the statistics of overpopulation of animals compared to people? I know in some places like China I believe, they don't allow having more than 2 kids because it is so overpopulated. Moose, since now you believe in hunting, are you going to start eating meat? I know that you said in another thread that you recently ate a burger, and had to suffer the consequences. So are you a vegetarian because of health reasons, or because of your feelings toward killing animals?
 




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I've always had trouble with the feed the animals, shoot the animals thing. If the animals aren't fed, the numbers don't increase to the point where they have to be shot. When I moved to Texas I was amazed that 'hunters' were allowed to bait the deer with corn, then shoot them from trees when they came to feed during the season. I understand in Louisiana they can be hunted with dogs.

Of course we're all familiar with Cheney's canned hunt in 2003 when he and nine other 'hunters' shot 417 out of 500 caged birds.

In Wisconsin, we weren't allowed to shoot near a cowlick and only bowhunters were allowed tree stands. Don't get me wrong, I love venison and tramping around in the woods. Purchase of wetlands for migratory birds is grand. I just don't buy the circular argument that we feed them so we have to kill them.
 




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I really don't care much about who or what thinks about hunting. I don't conserve areas nor do I try to harm areas. I don't care who likes hunting or not. I don't care what anyone thinks about me hunting. I'm going to shoot down some nice food and thats all I care about. Anyone that has been hunting like me for years has wounded some animal and it suffered and died later because we just couldn't find it to finish it off. I really don't cry over it, think about it or talk about it.
Unlike those real nut case Animal lovers that care more about animals than humans, I care more about human lifes than any animals life.
Besides after hunting down humans during war time, hunting wild animals is just a walk in the park for me. I don't hunt for fun or sport, I just hunt to eat.
All I want to do is fill my 500lb freezer with meat with out paying $5.00-$15.00 a pound for it.
 




shamaal

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I hunt because I enjoy hunting. If I just wanted meat I'd set snares and legtraps.
 




old mechanic

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shamaal said:
I hunt because I enjoy hunting. If I just wanted meat I'd set snares and legtraps.
--------------
Snares and leg traps? Not much good for me when i'm 400 miles from home with a time frame to return. Besides, I wouldn't want anyone else getting trapped in a leg trap and not enough time to go around finding something dead or half dead in a trap that I do not wish to eat and would have to waste a shot to shoot it to stop it from suffering and scaring away a potential meal for every one else hunting there from the noise from the shot.
 


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moose1

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BrooklynBay said:
I don't get the opportunity to see wild animals roaming the streets in Brooklyn other than some kids which I will not compare to animals (but sometimes feel they are)! What are the statistics of overpopulation of animals compared to people? I know in some places like China I believe, they don't allow having more than 2 kids because it is so overpopulated. Moose, since now you believe in hunting, are you going to start eating meat? I know that you said in another thread that you recently ate a burger, and had to suffer the consequences. So are you a vegetarian because of health reasons, or because of your feelings toward killing animals?


No....... :D , I just feel its good to allow hunting to protect the animals from dieses and unethicle practices of extermination. I am a veg because becuase I feel its good for my health seeing chicken and cows are pumped filled with artificle hormones to make them bigger and we are ingesting it while we eat the meat, also because of the killing of animals wiether raised or not for food, but im not going to have this debate so ill leave it at that, and yes i ate a burger and felt like crap after words and ive officialy gotten all meat out of my diet, so im 100% vegan :D :D :D
 




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