More problems after 0012m upper/lower manafold gasket, Tentioner kit fix

[cjmedina]

Seems like a lot of play.

That looks like too much vertical motion. I fear the lower part of the guide is broken from the pivot. Reach down with your finger and see if you cam move the guide laterally (from side to side) as far down as you can reach.

I can't find a picture of how the guide is mounted. It looks like the bottom is attached to a post. If that is the case......Your right, it does not look good.


HOWEVER, IT FEELS LIKE IT IS ATTACHED TO A PIVOT POINT SINCE I CAN'T MOVE IT LATERALLY.....!

I had asked this question before. I guess I wasn't clear enough.


Looks more like the engine has to come out, which we have been trying to avoid.

If this is correct then this may be why the chain jumped.



Cliff

 

[cjmedina]

Is this the complete set?

If so, I'm trying to find how it is attached to the block.

Also if there should be no vertical movement then, why the long slot?

ftp://cj136.gotdns.com/files/Explorer/RtUpr.jpg

 

[2000StreetRod]

How mine broke

The photo below shows how my guide failed.

The black arrow identifies the bolt that secures the pivot bushing. If you can push the lower section of the guide away from the pivot bushing then it is broken. You should only be able to raise and lower the guide a very small amount because it would have to rotate unless its broken.

 

[2000StreetRod]

Cassette lower retaining bolt

The photo below shows the location of the cassett lower retaining bolt.

The large round plug in the middel covers the jackshaft rear sprocket retaining bolt. The smaller round item to its right with the Torx head is the cassette lower retaining bolt. These two items are covered by the flexplate/flywheel cover and is why the engine must be pulled to replace either the timing chain or the guide assembly.

 

[cjmedina]

What is the chance.

The bolt came loose and it's moving up and down on the threads?

I can feel and you can see in the video that it moves up and down and it does seem more so then any bushing clearance.

It's very hard to see down in the back but I can't feel it moving lateral at that point either???????


I need a positive way to confirm so I know my route forward.


Cliff

 

[BobWiersema]

I think its broke. The amount of movement Dale is talking about wouldn't be visibly noticeable. You would just barely be able to feel it.



Also, grab this file if you don't have it yet..

Ford 4.0L SOHC Engine Assembly A excellent document submitted by Jakee

 

[2000StreetRod]

try to remove the upper bolt

The upper guide positioning bolt is a T30. You may be able to use a 1/4 inch drive with a T30 bit to loosen the bolt. Once loose you should be able to unscrew it completely with your fingers. That should help you determine if the guide is broken.

I played with my guide and chain some before pulling the engine. It seemed to me that it would be very difficult for the chain to slip unless a section of the guide is broken.

I will examine mine further tomorrow but I don't want to remove my tensioner again to check for play in the guide. I've already reused the original compression ring twice.

 

[cjmedina]

Yep

The upper guide positioning bolt is a T30. You may be able to use a 1/4 inch drive with a T30 bit to loosen the bolt. Once loose you should be able to unscrew it completely with your fingers. That should help you determine if the guide is broken.

I played with my guide and chain some before pulling the engine. It seemed to me that it would be very difficult for the chain to slip unless a section of the guide is broken.

I will examine mine further tomorrow but I don't want to remove my tensioner again to check for play in the guide. I've already reused the original compression ring twice.

I was just going to suggest that!


Also you have to remeber I don't have the rear tensioner installed right now. Perhaps that could be part of it.

I will try it tomorrow.


Cliff

 

[2000StreetRod]

Checking for broken guide

I checked my rear guide for vertical movement this morning. It is less than 1/16 inch with the tensioner in place.

I found another way for you to check the guide to see if it is broken. The lower part of the guide is accessible from the heater blower box side of the head opening. The red arrow in the photos below identify the lower part of the traction side of the guide assembly. If you have a flat blade screwdriver with at least a 6 inch long blade you can push it against the side of the guide as you progress downward. There should be almost no movement and no breaks.

You probably won't be able to see the guide. You will have to go by feel.

 

[cjmedina]

I loosened the sprocket again. I can rock the sprocket laterally, tooth to tooth. There is a lot of slack with no tensioner installed. I then used the tensioner tool and torqued with my new 1/4" drive click torque wrench to 20 in/lb. Good thing I had a 1/2" male to male extension to go from 1/2 to 1/4. it worked great. With the tensioner installed the chain is warped on the socket and there is NO vertical movement by that guide anymore.

It would be nice to confirm that with the tensioner out there is the same amount of movement as shown in the video.

This is what it looks like without the tensioner installed: ftp://cj136.gotdns.com/files/Explorer/Headace/RH Chain/Tensioner/DSCN8396.JPG

I wonder how much is worn by the rubbing of the tensioner piston???

I don't have enough room to use a screw driver from the heater side but I can get a screw driver in from the tensioner insert side. There is no vertical movement on it.


Cliff

 

[cjmedina]

Not Good...Now What?

Loosened the guide post and this is what I found......


Why Plastic????????


ftp://cj136.gotdns.com/files/Explorer/Headace/RH Chain/DSCN8514.JPG

ftp://cj136.gotdns.com/files/Explorer/Headace/RH Chain/DSCN8515.JPG

ftp://cj136.gotdns.com/files/Explorer/Headace/RH Chain/DSCN8518.JPG

ftp://cj136.gotdns.com/files/Explorer/Headace/RH Chain/DSCN8519.JPG

 

[BobWiersema]

Time to pull the motor.

 

[2000StreetRod]

Fears confirmed

Well you found what I was afraid of. Yours failed in about the same spot as mine. I suspect that when it failed it wedged between the chain and the head causing your chain to jump. There probably are small pieces in your oil pan and in the oil pump pickup screen.

I'm sorry to say that the only way to replace the guide assembly is to either pull the engine or pull the transmission since the flexplate has to come off. I chose to pull the engine because I did not want to fight with the exhaust system to get it out of the way to pull the transmission. Also, it would be very awkward to work on the engine from under the vehicle without a lift. Another factor is that I don't have a transmission jact and I decided I would get more use out of a folding crane than a transmission jack.

Do you have access to a shop crane?

 

[2000StreetRod]

Alternative & experiment

At this point you still don't know if any of your valve stems are bent. It would be good to know to help evaluate your options.

At least one forum member had his rear guide fail but did not have the time or money (college student) to pull the engine and replace the guide. He chose (out of necessity) to continue to drive his vehicle with the risk of the chain slipping and destroying his engine.

If the traction side of the guide were straight instead of curved there would be less stress on it and if it failed there would be less change in the timing. Without the traction side in place there is even more slack on the chain and a greater chance of it slipping. I suspect the chain is most likely to slip at engine start and during rapid engine deceleration.

As I recall the front tensioner from sealing face to the end of the housing is about 1/4 inch longer than the rear tensioner. If the front tensioner were inserted into the rear position it might reduce enough chain slack to prevent the chain from slipping. The problem is that as the slack side of the guide moves more inward there is more force on the upper end of the guide because it is so close to the upper sprocket.

Have you been able to determine for sure that you have the later guide with metal reinforcement on the slack side? If so, there is less risk of the slack side breaking due to the non-uniform pressure on the guide.

The experiment is to see if the front tensioner can screw all the way in to the face without binding the chain. I suggest that you use your in-lb torque wrench with a setting of 10 in-lbs and see what happens.

If the tensioner seats before 10 in-lbs then there is a good chance the front tensioner could be torqued to spec without binding the chain. If you reach 10 in-lbs before it seats then you can't run the engine with the front tensioner but you can back off a little until the chain is not bound and do a compression check to find out your valve status.

I want to emphasize the risk of running your engine with the lower part of the guide remaining in the engine. The chain will be moving toward the edge of the broken piece and could catch on the guide. Also, other pieces that are currently out of the way might get disturbed and cause a problem.

 

[2000StreetRod]

Rear cassette replacement parts

Below is a list of the minimum parts you will need to replace the rear timing chain cassette (chain, sprockets, guide assembly) since just the guide assembly is no longer available from the dealer. I suggest using Ford parts to be sure to get the latest improved guide assembly and a quality chain.

4L2Z6M290AA Rear timing chain cassette $67.75
F77Z6026AB Jackshaft rear plug $ 8.79
W703167S430 Jackshaft rear sprocket bolt $ 4.95

Once you get the guide assembly out you will know if there are missing pieces which is very likely. I strongly suggest that you remove the lower oil pan and clean the guide pieces out of the pan and the oil pump pickup tube screen. You'll need a new lower oil pan gasket. I saved some money purchasing a Felpro gasket ($14.80) from RockAuto instead of buying the Ford one ($31.38).

Potential online Ford OEM suppliers:
tousleyfordparts.com (where I bought mine)
tascafordparts.com
silverstatefordparts.com

Shipping charges are extra. You can get prices from your local dealer and compare with the online suppliers.

I suggest that you check your rear main seal for leakage when you're under the vehicle disconnecting your exhaust manifold outlets. If the seal is leaking you may want to replace it while the engine is out. Normally, the transmission is pulled to replace the rear main seal. It must be a somewhat tricky process because many members have replaced theirs and had them leak worse. I bought a FelPro seal from RockAuto (17.99)

If you have the driver side valve cover off I suggest that you inspect the guide as closely as possible before ordering your parts. You may also want to consider replacing the primary chain tensioner. Unfortunately, that requires pulling the timing cover which is a lot of work and adds more expense. The new primary chain tensioner is significantly improved from the original. The primary timing chain kit costs $110.10. You can get by with just purchasing the tensioner, damper bolt and gasket for less.

 

[cjmedina]

As always Dale.....

Thanks for a super write up!

Cliff

 

[2000StreetRod]

Compression check

When performing your compression test on the right bank after retiming, don't forget to disable the fuel supply and make sure that nothing will get sucked into the head intake ports.

You can disable the fuel supply by pulling up on the fuel pump shut-off switch (located in the passenger's foot well by the kick panel) reset button or pulling the fuel pump relay in the power distribution box.

 

[2000StreetRod]

Engine removal procedures

I plan to generate an engine removal procedure but it won't be done in time to help you. Below are some links to helpful procedures I used to pull my engine. It is not necessary to disconnect the air conditioner hoses or the power steering hoses. The hoses are long enough to allow securing the compressor and pump out of the way.

This has fairly complete instructions but no photos:
Ford Explorer SOHC Timing Chain Replace

An excellent step by step procedure written in Swedish with numerous photos:
Demonter Motor

Translation for above procedure:
Removing Motor

There was another one for a UK model with photos but I can't seem to find the link.

 

[cjmedina]

Strarted pulling the Engine today....

I started the removal today. I have the vehicle on 2 jack stands and 2 more for security. I use to have 2 hydraulic jacks but one is not working. Do you know where can I get some hydraulic oil for it?

I removed the front tires and for the heck of it I tried my new 700 ft/lb impact wrench on the exhaust manifold bolts......What a piece of cake. Took me less then a half an hour to this point except I can't get one of the bolts on the driver side because the EGR pipe is in the way. I'm doing a little at a time......



Cliff

 

[2000StreetRod]

No need to remove exhaust manifolds

. . . I removed the front tires and for the heck of it I tried my new 700 ft/lb impact wrench on the exhaust manifold bolts......What a piece of cake. Took me less then a half an hour to this point except I can't get one of the bolts on the driver side because the EGR pipe is in the way. I'm doing a little at a time......

Cliff

There is no need to remove the exhaust manifolds. Most members use the exhaust manifolds to lift the engine. You only need to remove the 2 bolts at each exhaust manifold outlet that is attached to the pipes in front of the cats.