Mutineer's SAS thread

[Mutineer]

Thanks and good luck on your project. Seems like the trend on here is Expys and Mustangs... Ive got a 1998 Mountaineer (of course) and a 2003 GT (vroom)
Sorry to hear about you rolling it, but then thats how these things always get started isnt it? lol

"From the ashes :roll: rose an empire :exporange: "

Ive come a good ways on Mutineer's front end, was saving the post for when I got the front hung, but Ill get some pics on here tomorrow if possible and let Y'all see how its going.

I got the Axle and springs all put togther, and the steering link done (but not welded all the way yet)

The rear of the springs is hung, but the front required alittle fabbing up since I shortened the frame way back when , and now I have to build something to hang them on...lol

Im building a winch mount front to the frame, and then some tubing to finish it off. It'll be awesome I think, and fit in my budget.

Ill try to get some pics on here and let y'all see, but its not quite looking like much yet.

Danny Ray

 

[version4pointOH]

yeah i would say to move that axle back a little, im no professional but that much angle when under a load would make me a litttle weary too.

 

[Mutineer]

Wouldn't be too hard to do, Id say about 3" back would do it...to where the shackle is straight up and down when hanging, and not too acute at rest under load.

Ill try to get to that this weekend if not sooner.

Thanks

 

[Mutineer]

Fixed Shackles

OK I fixed it, ended up moving them about 4" and worked out well these pics are under load while sitting on the axle on jackstands. This is why we test positioning before fully welding things

This looks WAAAAAYYY closer to right than before.

EDIT: I removed all the other posts about the shackles since they are irrelevant now. Thanks for the reply version4pointOH

 

[lifeguard379]

looks good. what mount did you move back? cuz the shackles look a little steep. i can see them hitting a rock and snapping leafs and pinion.

did you cut the front mount your self or buy them that way?

 

[Mutineer]

I got the mount plates from ballistic fabrication, and I welded them to a sheet of 10" WIDE 1/4 flat stock. This will be a basis for a winch mount.

I moved the rear mounts back about 4" cuz the shackles were sticking out at an acute angle... I was trying to set the axle forward to improve my approach angle but when youre using leafs you are limited in that area...

Everything seems to be working out better this way anyway.

The end result shackles I'm fabbing up will be shorter than those by about 2".


I was going for this angle under load: (dots are for positioning of "shackles")

_________
...............|
...............|


If I make it too obtuse (front angle) the axle will be under the seats...


_________
............../
............./


or this like it was to begin with, the axle is fine but the shackles stick out front bucktooth like this:


_________
...............\
................\


As it is the axle is about 2" forward from the original axle's location...


What angle is best on these? this is the first time Ive done front shackles..

If I need to it wont be hard to move the front ones back a bit...

Thanks

 

[lifeguard379]

i belive the last one is the best.

way i see it when your leafs flex up or flaten, there eyelets or mounts will move futher apart. and when it drops they will get closer together. if that makes sence?

 

[Mutineer]

Oh yeah that makes sense.

I had it that way to begin with, but it was too much of an angle and stuck out too far in front of the truck.

Ill see if I can get another pic... I deleted those posts earlier...

I thought that if its sitting upright at rest, it'll have plenty of room to move forward when needed....

 

[FROADER]

You don't want the shackles facing backwards when sitting at ride height. When a side droops it will bring the bottom of the shackle even further back. Then when it comes back up, there is a chance that your shackle will swing up the wrong way and jack things up.

Like what happen to sn0border88 until he fixed his angle. His was even facing forward a little to start with.

Fixed. And since his springs were pretty flat to begin with, they won't move forward on compression.

I'd move the shackles back enough to get a decent angle on them so that doesn't happen.

 

[Mutineer]

WOW.. Thats the way I had them to begin with... lol

...but the whole axle was too far forward anyway so its all good...


Agreed. I was thinking the same thing when I did it the first time. (flipping the shackle)

Im glad I moved it back a bit, but now I got to move back the fronts too...

not a big deal. its just X4 2" welds and its off. Itll be SAT before I can get it done.

I'll still try to get some pics up of the before and after.

 

[FROADER]

I'd wait until you have the actual shackles that you're going to be using too, otherwise your placement and angle will be different. Unless one of those holes in the current shackle is the same as the new shackle, I'd put the springs there.

 

[Mutineer]

I'd wait until you have the actual shackles that you're going to be using too, otherwise your placement and angle will be different. Unless one of those holes in the current shackle is the same as the new shackle, I'd put the springs there.

Good call, the next hole up on the shackles is the right measurement, so Ill move it there and make sure it still is right...

Ive got the flat stock to build the shackles but need a drill press for the holes...lol the one thing I DONT have in the garage...

 

[Mutineer]

OK heres the pics before and after:

1. Before off weight
2. Before on weight
3. & 4. After on weight

If I move back the front mounts I think it will put it right where it was anglewise, maybe alittle less, and From what I have seen and been warned about that should be fine...

Thoughts?

 

[storlied]

Maybe you could design the shackle to not allow movement on the other side?.. Would that be too much on the leaf ends when it comes time to hit that limit? Even if it's just enough to keep the angle right.. I think it might be something to look into... keep in mind.. I have no idea how to do what you're doing.. I mean, I get the basic idea.... well actually.. it looks pretty easy.... in the sense of getting rid of the IFS and fabricating the additions needed for the leaf springs.... blah...

Is it a bad idea or what?

 

[FROADER]

OK heres the pics before and after:

1. Before off weight
2. Before on weight
3. & 4. After on weight

Are the pictures labeled backwards? You want the shackle to angle forward like the lower pics.

 

[mounty71]

Are the pictures labeled backwards? You want the shackle to angle forward like the lower pics.

Doesn't look like it, check the dates. It's getting a little confusing, at least to me. When you say shackle angled forward, is that the top or bottom angled forward? I would think the upper pictures are where he should be, esp. to prevent what happened to snoborder.

 

[FROADER]

Yeah, the first two pics in post 53 are "correct." The bottom should be further forward than the top.

 

[Mutineer]

Right, OK then Ill move the front mounts back even with the end of the chopped frame... this will work better anyway, so I'm glad I goofed it up

I tried to plce the axle too far forward to begin with, then moved the rear, now I got to move the front. I will have plenty of practice welding tomorrow

Sorry the dates on my camera are wrong, it resets everytime I change the batteries, and I end up having to do that alot.... Ill make it right from now on.

so this is correct:

_____________
...................\
....................\

Ill get pics after I get it positioned tomorrow, should be before lunch.

Thanks Y'all! keep it coming!

 

[Mutineer]

Maybe you could design the shackle to not allow movement on the other side?.. Would that be too much on the leaf ends when it comes time to hit that limit? Even if it's just enough to keep the angle right.. I think it might be something to look into... keep in mind.. I have no idea how to do what you're doing.. I mean, I get the basic idea.... well actually.. it looks pretty easy...

Looks easy till you start it...then you find out theres alot more to it than you thought, and it takes an open mind and ALOT of patience to get it right before you weld everything in place.

That sounds like a sane idea, but I would worry, as you mentioned, about the stress on the leaves. besides, Id much rather do it right on the third try then not learn from what SNOBOARDER88 went through... OUCH!

...in the sense of getting rid of the IFS and fabricating the additions needed for the leaf springs.... blah...

Is it a bad idea or what?

OK it's a good Idea if you are serious about it. This is no place for shortcuts and workarounds. If you arent going to be living offroad and getting serious about it, Leave the IFS alone, it works GREAT for mild wheeling and daily driving.

 

[storlied]

I most likely won't ever be doing a sas, I was just trying to think of something for his issue.. seemed like a good idea (other than the stress on the leafs) Specially if there's gonna be a LOT of travel making the shackle come to the angle where it might flip around.