My 347 is dissappointing.What gives?

[X-Box]

Hey everyone,

Well I've taken the truck to the track and then to the dyno. and here are the results......

Track 14.95 sec @ 92.01 mph @ 4300lbs.

A HP Calculator results:
Using trap speed I get 261rwhp and 308 flywheel
ET gives me 253rwhp and 299 flywheel

The dyno reads approx 230 @ 5200RPM (I pulled the superchip before the dyno run because of detonation)

Where is the problem? Shouldn't this setup have a few more ponies?

I've seen a few engines for sale on-line from performance shops claiming upwards of 430 HP(flywheel)with similar components and carb instead of FI. The truck still has the stock MAS,fuel pump, and 19lb injectors.

I bought a Powerdyne 6lb supercharger. I'm also negotiating a deal on a TFS Track R intake.

The Powerdyne comes with a 200lph in line boost-a-pump.

Is that enough?

I know I need to change the MAS, injectors, and probably the throtlebody.

I think I should go with an 80mm Pro-m and 30lb to 36lb injectors. My truck is a 99' with a returnless fuel system.
Should I convert it to a return system?
Some people are telling me I can't use a Pro-M from a Mustang. Is that true? ie.. C&L

My mods to date are:
FMS 347, TFS Aluminum heads 2.02/1.6, 1.6 Roller rockers,FMS E-303 cam,FMS headers, True 2 1/2" mandrel bent exhaust with no-cats and a 50 series Flo-master.

Sorry for the ramble, it's just this has cost a small fortune and it's not as fast as I thought it would be.
Any input would be greatly appriciated on what mods to go with so I can run 12's w/o NOS.

Thanks. Dom

 

[fordkrazy]

well i think you should do the upgrades as you mentioned(MAS, intake, and pump/injectors) and then see where you stand....you have a greater flowing engine with the running equipment that is restricting on the factory lower flowing engine....youve got an imbalance in restriction cause your exhaust sounds real free flowing...thats probably why you have the detonation (not enough back pressure).....also you may want to get a FMS computer to control it...it will be custom programed and run and respond faster than a chip add on.

 

[Alec]

Yup, sounds to me like the fuel system and lack of intake/exhaust/computer calibration. I think you should upgrade the fuel system and go from there. Your exhaust doesn't sound too open, but it could be.

 

[plrs x45]

do not waste your money on the pro-m. use a C&L with 30lb injectors. I am not new to mustangs but doesnt the supercharger come with a fuel pressure regulator that is boost sensitive? 19lb injectors do not run out of fuel that quick. with heads and intakes, mustangs run all day low 13's with the stock injectors (adjusted fuel pressure). when a vehicle becomes forced inducted you want the most open exhaust possible (no backpressure) for performance. good luck with your X. it sounds like it is pretty cool.

 

[james t]

you need some fuel! ill bet its runnin' lean... MAS and 19's are restricting you now, but not much. you could make the 19's work fine IF you had an adjustable FPR... but when you get the charger on there the 19's might as well be 10's... you'll have to get at least 36's with your motor and mild boost. also, the stock computer wont rev near as high as your motor will. your not making good power because its shifting at 5000 and your motor will make power to at least 6000 now... you are right at 300-320 flywheel and thats pretty good considering your running stock fuel system and a E303 cam. BTW, E303 is fords mildest cam and is designed for low-mid rpm power and a good idle. this is in a 302. the more displacement, the bigger the cam needs to be to do the same thing it would in a smaller motor. in other words, a huge cam in a 302 will only be kinda big in a 347- if that makes sense.

i didnt realize you had returnless. the FPR is basically built in to the pump, so you have no pressure adjustment. basically, get a big MAS and some 36's, and see if that dont help. later on, you may want a bigger cam (proly not what you want to hear).

 

[X-Box]

Thanks so far guys, keep the input comming.

James,
the powerdyne comes with a 200lph in-line boost-a-pump, is that enough?
Will it deal with the FPR issue you mentioned?

Ebay has C&L 80mm MAFS for 89-93 mustangs . They can be bought for $169.95 and they use your factory electronics. They can be calibrated for any injector size.

Will they work on my application?

The TFS Track R intake has flow characteristics good between 2,500-7,250 RPM's. I know my motor will not turn those #'s, but I thought with the added cubic inches the more flow potential the better.
The TFS track heat flows between 1,500-6,500 RPM.

When I had the chip in it shifted around 5,500 RPM but sometimes the REV limiter would kick in and the shifts were too soft. I'm having a shift kit installed, I think it's a Bauman?

I'm going to get a new chip custom burned after all the work is done so it can be set up the best it can for the mods.

Superchip has released a new chip "Micro Tuner" #1715 which adds an OBD II diagnostic code reader. It plugs into the ALDL diag. port and allows the user to adjust gear ratio, tire size, shift points, and shift firmness. I'm checking into them.

I think I may change the cam to a slightly more aggressive one.
And I might give the X a brain trasplant!

Again thanks for the input. Dom

 

[james t]

that boostapump should be enough. you still need bigger injectors. i have heard the stang MAS will not work, but i have never tried so i really dont know. might as well just get one set up for X.

from what i remember, the reason Troll went with stang computer is cuz there was no way to program X computer to rev any higher. he said this is no longer a problem, and can do whatever you want with X programming.

ive got an intake (for charger applications) shootout in one of my stang magazines. go for the TF STREET one, and not the Track. the street intake did just awesome under boost, is fairly cheap, and will not be near as "peaky" in your heavy explorer. basically, it will be a few less peak hp than the Track, but with alot more mid-hit. should actaully run better in a heavy X. if you want, e-mail me jamest45acp@cableone.net and i can get you rpm range hp/torque comparison tables.

even shifting @ 5500, your motor is not getting up were it will make all its power. your main problem right now is computer (in my opinion). get it to rev to at least 6200, and you'll see some major improvements. maybe call Troll and ask about getting him to do the chip (since he nows what hes doing with the X programming.)

and yes, the E303 in a 347 is basically an RV cam.lol you may in the future want something a little lumpy. just remember, cam descriptions are for 302 displacement and with the 347, you will need more cam to get the same "lump" as a 302.

 

[X-Box]

Thanks James,

I may have one of Bills friends do the rest of the work for me. The main reason for this post was to get different opinions of what works and what doesn't. My mechanic seems to know his stuff but I'm getting alot of conflicting info on the best set up. Mostly injector size. Since Bill has already laid most of the ground work, i'm sure that i will have Richard do the rest of the mods. That and my mechanic is about 4 1/2 hrs away! Even though I pay less in shop time the travel time kills me.

You really think I should go with the "Street Heat" version. The Track Heat I'm looking at is not too much more and has been polished. Even though I think it'll retain more heat, it sure looks mean!

Lastly 30,36,42lb injectors. How do you decide?

Dom

 

[james t]

i would go with 36's, but its not really an exact sience. you can fine tune with computer/FPR, and there really is not an "exact size" that will be perfect for you right now. just get some bigger ones in there.

to sum up the intake article,
Trick Flow Street____Trick Flow Track Heat
501.8hp___________500.3hp
482.6tq___________456.0tq

and no, i didnt get the #'s reversed. the article basically said the Track would have done better on a more "racey" motor. i guess to them, 500 rwhp is not very racey. basically, you will see alot more power with the Street. the torque curve was nice and flat, and much higher than the Track. and, you actually get more peak torque and alittle more peak hp.

 

[X-Box]

James,
My mechanic told me the Track Heat will flow better in my situation because of the 45 more cubes I have?

I'm trying to buy the injectors only once, that's why I'm wondering which set would be best for me. Sounds like the 36's may do the trick. Also the MAS. Is the one in our trucks different than the ones for a 87-93 stang? Dom

P.S Can you email me that article? Thanks. Dom

 

[james t]

as far as i know, yes the MAS's are different. i have never tried to run an X Mas on a stang, or vise-versa, so i really have no exact proof. lol

yea, i can scan the article, and ill be glad to send it to ya. gotta work 12hrs/sleep some, so ill do it friday morning. its kinda long, and ill have to do some size "adapting". ill try an get it as readable as possible.

 

[X-Box]

Ok,

Someone must have some ideas here!

Mustangengines.com have 2 different 347 stroker motor avail.

The truck version has 400hp and 385 ft/lb torque FI version

The car version has 430hp and ? torque

This is flywheel Hp.....

How come my set up puts out 130hp less?!?

I must be stupid because something is not adding up.

Thoughts?........HELP!!!............anyone!!.......Dom

 

[XLT_66]

i'm no car smartie, but that cam your using seems a little small for the engine. Like james said, a 303 is a good cam for a stock 302, you should def get a bigger cam, would make it sound a lot meaner, and make it perform a lot better. Also, with a bigger motor, your going to use more fuel. It is a pain the arse, but a larger in-tank fuel pump is the best way to go. Also, the stock 19 lb injectors def need to be upgraded to 36 or even a 42lb if your gunna charge it, even if you wern't, you would want to do the upgrade.

The computer is also a real problem. You need to get a custom computer setup that is designed to handle that engine. A chip can hold it i guess, but i would go with a new comp.

As far as it running lean, does a lean running motor usually produce more hp? i don't know if that is only to a certain degree, but my friend has a chip in his mustang, that at certain levels, it leans the car out and advances the timing...

If you unsure if it is running lean, just check the plugs. You can always tell how the motor is running by the color and feel of a spark plug...

 

[fordkrazy]

the conversions are not always accurate for the flywheel hp...but you could very well be that much lower untill you do the upgrades....you are building up a motor and kinda doin it backwards.....you really need to get more air in it to match the exhaust...a non blown motor will always run better with a decent ammount of back pressure in relation to its intake cfm...its all about balancing the pressure. also you should really consider getting a mild blower cam so the exhaust valves will open and close at the right rate so you dont have detonation...and you wont have to worry about back pressure with it blown except that you dont want much.... it comes down to the little things like planning and doing some calculations to get it tuned right....you will want to do some cfm calc on your intake including your heads so that you can match your boost to your exhaust

 

[SaleenEXP]

Originally posted by XLT_66
i'm no car smartie, but that cam your using seems a little small for the engine. Like james said, a 303 is a good cam for a stock 302, you should def get a bigger cam, would make it sound a lot meaner, and make it perform a lot better. Also, with a bigger motor, your going to use more fuel. It is a pain the arse, but a larger in-tank fuel pump is the best way to go. Also, the stock 19 lb injectors def need to be upgraded to 36 or even a 42lb if your gunna charge it, even if you wern't, you would want to do the upgrade.

The computer is also a real problem. You need to get a custom computer setup that is designed to handle that engine. A chip can hold it i guess, but i would go with a new comp.

As far as it running lean, does a lean running motor usually produce more hp? i don't know if that is only to a certain degree, but my friend has a chip in his mustang, that at certain levels, it leans the car out and advances the timing...

If you unsure if it is running lean, just check the plugs. You can always tell how the motor is running by the color and feel of a spark plug...

He's right, the e-303 cam is too small for your 347. It's one of, if not the perfect cam for the 5.0 not the 347 V8.
And you definitley need to get a custom chip burned to your engines tuning for what you want. That cam and no burned chip are really holding you back. Why did you go with the E-303?

You should be running quicker than 14.95 in the quarter. My neighbor took his stock 02' 4.6 Explorer and his highly modded Audi S4 (I drove the Ex) to Morrosso Speedway and the 02' Explorer ran 15.7 and 15.85 in the quarter, you should be running more than only a second quicker than that time with a 347 in a 2nd gen Ex.

 

[expo5.0]

well, how much hp does a stock 351 make? less than your truck, right? unless you modify the 347 (as it seems you are going to) its not going to somehow just magically have the hp you would get from a kit that a good engine builder sells at the same C.I.

 

[X-Box]

I agree SaleenEXP, it should be quicker, but it's not.

And expo5.0,
It really isn't the same as a stock 351. I do have TFS heads, cam etc. Mabe my cam is too mild. It does sound kinda lumpy and it has .498 lift. I was just making a comparison to the fact that their engines(Mustangengines.com) are producing upwards of 130 more hp than me. Mabe they're using "Magic", mabe they're lying. I don't believe a cam upgrade, 80mm MAS, 36lb injectors, and a chip is going to give me over 100 more hp. But I really hope I'm wrong

I want the base engine to produce in the 400 hp area(flywheel) before I add the charger. All I need to do is change a few things and sort this out. Make no mistake it will be fast when I'm done.

thanks for the opinions, I'll post the changes and hopefully the improvements. Dom

 

[SaleenEXP]

also do a search for Troll or blk mk8, they have the sickest Explorer. They are also running a supercharged built-up 347, so you can contact them or do a search and find out the info on the 347 you want. They have the perfect combination on their engine. When I get my 02' V8 Mounty I'm taking it down to them in Miami, their only about 30 min. from me.

 

[SaleenEXP]

Holy crap, whats up X-Box, I live in Boca Raton also, wuzzz up I think that makes about 3 or 4 total from our city.

 

[X-Box]

Hey,
I'm formally "Dominicnyc", I changed the name 'cause it was too boring, kinda like the way my trucks runnin'

Who's the others?