New James Duff Ex lift

[ThatFabGuy]

I didn't think I'd like them at first because of the valving. After putting so many miles on the kit, everything just works so well together! I guess it's the quad shock setup in front that holds the front true, even with no sway bar. Not to mention they have built in bumpstops and only like $35 each.
With the EB coils however, it would be nice to bolt the sway bar back up and make quick disconnects. They are so soft that it tends to lean quite a bit in a hard corner. When I do my SAS I believe we will switch to the stiffer 5.5" EB coils and call it good. I will need another inch or so of lift for the 39s I will have on it.

 

[cmhaah06]

Any further updates on the steering situation? When you switched to the EB coils, did you just bolt the lower coil mount to the top of the duff radius arms?

 

[ThatFabGuy]

I have been testing a new steering setup for TTB vehicles that is made by Stonecrusher Steering. I have the "rough draft" version but it works very well. I no longer have to drive with ratchet straps holding the frontend down. Even 4x4Junkie has commented on the setup I have.

I've put several miles on this steering and a few wheeling trips. Nothing but good stuff to say so far.

I believe the updated version will be released to the public before too long. We are also working on a TRE version for those states that frown on heim steering.



Also to answer your question about the lower retainers I made for the EB coils. Yes, I removed the double stud that attaches the radius arm to the axle tube. I then set the retainer on top and put a 3/4" grade 8 bolt all the way through.
Here are the retainers I made.

 

[cmhaah06]

Wow, that steering setup looks good. So, are you still using the 3.5" coil at 225lbs/in with that steering setup? Where can I find more info on the steering setup? Are the lower mounts the same mounts you can purchase from James Duff? Sorry so many questions. Thanks for the info.

 

[Maniak]

The "toe-out" in the above pic looks a little extreme. I might be from the difference in tire height (suspension is crossed up some)..

I'm talking about the different the inside tire is turned compared to the outside tire when making a turn.. Since they travel in different arcs they are turned different amounts, but in the pic above its quite a big difference.

edit: I couldn't remember the other term for it when I wrote the above.. its also known as ackerman steering

~Mark

 

[ThatFabGuy]

Yes, I am still running the 3.5" lift EB coils. That's why the steering was developed, I literally had to drive with ratchet straps attached from the frame to the old sway bar mounts on the axles to keep the frontend from lifting every time I took off from a red light. No more straps now and it drives just like it did when I had the 6" ranger coils on it.

The lower coil retainers were made by me. 6" round with (I believe) a 1 1/2" foot on the bottom to set it up high enough to clear the ball joint. Mine will be pulled possibly this weekend when the SAS is started.

The steering is made by Stonecrusher Steering. Give Anthony a call and he can hook you up. Mine is just the prototype version to see if it actually worked, the consumer version has a few refinements like a better saddle where the tie-rod and drag link combine as well as a high angle heim there. I don't believe he has this system on his site yet but it will be there shortly. Every system is built to your specs depending on what kind of lift you have. You will provide a few measurements and he will make it and ship to you.

As far as the toe-out, I believe it only looks bad in that pic, it looks fine in the other. We set it to 1/8" out which is only 1/16" out on each side. When looking at it from straight ahead you can't even notice it.

Any other questions? Just ask, I'll do what I can to provide as much info as I can without getting into trouble.

 

[Maniak]

As far as the toe-out, I believe it only looks bad in that pic, it looks fine in the other. We set it to 1/8" out which is only 1/16" out on each side. When looking at it from straight ahead you can't even notice it.

I'm talking about the difference in how far the wheels turn when you turn the wheel, not the difference when the tires are straight. When turning, the inside tires move in a small arc so they should be turned a little more than the outside tire. In the pic it appeared the outside tire didn't move very far at all while the inside tire moved a bunch.

This is what I'm talking about. Ackermann steering geometry - Wikipedia
and
(dead links)

~Mark

 

[ThatFabGuy]

Here are some wheeling pics with the stock steering on it. You can see the huge improvement by keeping the tires where they are supposed to be instead of them trying to climb each other.

 

[ThatFabGuy]

I know all about the Ackerman angle, been down that road when building Suzukis. Although I can't tell you what the measurments or angles are (I don't know) I do know that the drag link is the same length as stock and the tie-rod was lengthened to move the pivot point to where the axle pivot is. It was installed and adjusted to 1/8" out. I've been driving on it for about a month now and it works very well. Minimal bumpsteer and the tires don't do this \ / anymore. The geometry shouldn't have changed any as the only thing moved was the pivot point. It still turns the same amount whether the pivot is high or low.

 

[Maniak]

I know all about the Ackerman angle, been down that road when building Suzukis. Although I can't tell you what the measurments or angles are (I don't know) I do know that the drag link is the same length as stock and the tie-rod was lengthened to move the pivot point to where the axle pivot is. It was installed and adjusted to 1/8" out. I've been driving on it for about a month now and it works very well. Minimal bumpsteer and the tires don't do this \ / anymore. The geometry shouldn't have changed any as the only thing moved was the pivot point. It still turns the same amount whether the pivot is high or low.

Gotcha.. so more likely its just the angle of the photo that makes it look like the outer tire didn't move. If you get a chance, on flat ground, just turn the wheel and snap a pic. I know my ackerman steering isn't quite right now and if what you have is better (or same) I may switch to that style steering, which looks like it has quite a bit of potential.

~Mark

 

[ThatFabGuy]

Went out and snapped a few pics. Didn't go to full lock but you can see that the angle is correct.
First is straight on.

Left turn

Right turn

Even with a spool in the rear, I can whip in to any parking spot at Wal-Mart. My tires hate me for it but I can do it.

 

[cmhaah06]

ok, so your not going to be using your lower coil mounts anymore? Sent you a PM. I sent stonecrusher steering an email. I hope to hear back from them soon. Looks like its gonna be a really nice setup. So are you using the 6" drop bracket lift from JD?

 

[ThatFabGuy]

Not going to be using any of this stuff anymore except for the coil buckets and frame mounts for the radius arms. Swapping to full width HP44 and 9 inch rolling on 39" Iroks.
My lift is the 6" JD lift but I don't know if I will be able to get rid of anything or if JD is gonna want their stuff back. I wouldn't recommend the 3.5" EB coils for an explorer. Too soft a spring for such a heavy truck. I'd find a 2"-3" EB coil with a higher spring rate to use. They work well off road but not for an every day driver.

 

[cmhaah06]

Ok. Well, if they dont want their stuff back let me know. So, hypothetically speaking, if I were to use the 3.5" duff springs and keep my front sway bar with some custom extended links, it would still be to soft? Trying to get an idea for my truck. I found a couple sets of springs that are 240lbs/in and 360lbs/in. Hope to find something in the range of 330-350lbs/in. You think that will be to light?

 

[ThatFabGuy]

The body roll isn't what I'm speaking of. Although it is excessive, it's nothing I haven't experienced before daily driving a samurai on 36s.
What I'm talking about is the compression. I've got a 23" long spring that is squished down to 15" under the weight of the Ex. If I hit a bump hard enough I can bottom the springs out. With the ranger coils I could hit railroad crossings or speed bumps and it would soak right up like I was running over a toothpick. A shorter but higher spring rate coil would fix this. In the woods I dont mind them cuz they flex like a mo fo but I would not recommend them for a daily driver, not when the ranger coils rode so good. I can't wait to try the 5.5" EB coils, I think they will ride much better.

 

[cmhaah06]

I found a set of coil springs rated at 320lbs/in at 18 1/2". Think that will be good enough to control compression?

 

[KPSquared]

Any word on the cost of that steering set-up from Stonecrusher? Or should I just fire them an email? If it works better than the Superrunner, I would be interested. I don't want to kick out the cash for a system that doesn't work... and apparently the Superrunner without modification doesn't work.

I know a guy that is currently working on more of a swingset set-up and if get's it built, I may just have to have him build another one...

 

[cmhaah06]

I contacted stonecrusher and they are still working on the numbers. They said probably gonna run around $300.

 

[ThatFabGuy]

Last pics of my Ex as it rolled into the shop for the SAS.

Will start a new thread to document the SAS as it happens.

 

[Naasau]

I just received a pair of the James Duff coil buckets and it seems like they have updated their design a bit from your testers. I thought that I would post some images of them since they seem to be quality products and were really great to order from.
(dead links)
They came with basic but clear instructions and all the mounting hardware. It was only grade 5 but I think that with as many bolts as there are, it should be more than sufficient. After all, how strong is the metal that Ford uses for those rivets anyway?

*EDIT: These are the older model coil buckets that do not allow for the EB Coils that FabGuy was testing out. Still shiny and cool.