new motor, BIG PROBLEMS why won't you run? | Page 3 | Ford Explorer Forums - Serious Explorations

  • Register Today It's free!

new motor, BIG PROBLEMS why won't you run?

The stock PCM can accomodate ALOT
even a supercharger, so I dont think this is a PCM issue, I mean it will definatley need a tune, but the stock PCM should not be the cause of your run ability issue
 



Join the Elite Explorers for $20 each year.
Elite Explorer members see no advertisements, no banner ads, no double underlined links,.
Add an avatar, upload photo attachments, and more!
.





Even with the accel coils i have?
 






410, what kind of vaccum are you pulling with your e cam?
 






dug this up from not that long ago... sounds similiar to my problem. it was just never resolved. http://www.explorerforum.com/forums//showthread.php?t=227077&page=2

For the record when i set my cps i couldn't get it perfect. If i went one tooth either way it was maybe 10 degrees from being inline with the motor. Is there a tolerance with it in regards to how close to the centerline of the motor the sensor points?
 






were you at TDC on compression stroke? It should line up with teh cam and the alignment tool, maybe 3-5 degrees off center, but not 10 degrees!!

Cam sensor = PITA, but just be thankful they are mounted on the front of our engines, on the V6 they are buried
 






I don't know.. 10 might have been a bit much.. heres as good of a picture i could get without taking abunch of stuff off. I didn't degree the camshaft, just lined up the marks. All i could have done is move the cam one tooth at a time on the timing chain right? Oh and theres 14 teeth on the cam/cps. 360/14=25 degrees.. I had it set up to tdc on the compression stroke.. no doubt there.

I'm out of ideas.. cobraguy's suggestion of a sticking valve is my next thing to check out. Im going to pick up a compression tester tonight.

centerline1.jpg


IMG00156.jpg
 






Your cam sensor is fine as it is.

I wonder slightly about the Accel coils though, another member of the EX site had issues which came and went with the coils. He has them off now I believe, and I had just received mine. I installed them Wednesday, thinking I should test them before using them for my new engine. The instructions have a plug wire diagram which doesn't match our plug wire arrangement.

Your plug wires look just like I have mine, how about swapping them out with the stock coils to eliminate that issue. If things get better, then it could be just the wire order on the coils.

The PCM can handle your stock heads fine, I'd be most concerned about the valvetrain or as mentioned a sticking valve. Do the coils first, that's quick.
 






I ran these coils on my old motor for a year and a half with no problems. The order it comes with is different but the same. The wasted spark of the dis. the same cylinders that are supposed to spark do, its just that they are switched around. And i don't have my old coils so i'd have to junk yard some to check it out.
 






Very good, because I have not heard back if the other member retried the coils or not.
 






All the plugs look good. No differences between them.
 






OK,
Don't worry about the appearance of the cam sensor. Where the plug points is of no importance at all.

If the engine was at tdc , and the tool was in place when the sensor was tightened down, you are synched.

As for vacuum, my engine pulls 16 in vacuum at 900rpm idle.
 






Ok.. Been working all morning.

Compression test, Warmed up to operating temp, All spark plugs removed, cranked for at least 4 full rotations, throttle wide open.

Cyl1-141
Cyl2-150
Cyl3-150
Cyl4-146

Cyl5-146
Cyl6-150
Cyl7-145
Cyl8-151

A little low, but i'm not sure on the heads (combustion chamber size). Within 10%.

Turdle, Gapping the plugs down a bit to .050 seemed to help, when its cold it idles fairly well, not perfect but better. Threw the timing light on and the misfire wasn't prevelant. NOW, when it warmed up to operating temp or close to it, the misfire started to show in the timing light.

Went to testing my accel coil packs. They have worked with no issues for over a year, i changed plugs and wires with the new motor. Accel header plugs and msd 8.5mm custom wires.

COILS WERE CHECKED ACCORDING TO MY CHILTONS
Primary resistance.(ON THE WIREHARNESS SIDE OF THE COIL) Coil 1, 2 to corresponding battery + .9 ohms
Coil 3,4 to corresponding battery + .9 ohms
SPEC is .3-1.0 ohms, replace if out of spec.

NOW SECONDARY RESISTANCE
Coil 1 to the corresponding plug terminals
Coil 2 to the corresponding plug terminals
Coil 3 to the corresponding plug terminals
Coil 4 to the corresponding plug terminals

All showed no resistance, zero. No continuity between anything. SPEC in the chiltons says it should be between 6500 and 11000 ohms. I'm not sure if the accel coils are the same. But In a normal transformer (120v, 240, 480 etc) You cannot check continuity from primary to secondary taps because the electricity is passed magnectily from the primary to the secondary meaning there is no continuous path from the primary to the secondary taps.

next step anyone? I'm going to look for a set of coils i can swap in just to check. I don't really see how all of a sudden the coils could go bad? or could they?
 






With the coils working before, I'd think more about the plugs and wires that you changed. It is easy to have a bad plug or wire, even when new. It can be from installation also.

What else was changed to think about, before swapping more parts? You want to look externally first before digging under the valve covers. Start with what is new to the combination like the plugs and wires.
 






I checked a friends ranger which has the same coil packs and they checked out exactly as mine did, so thats ruled out. The misfire is across all the wires, with a timing light it shows up on every wire. And the plugs all looked the same, so it wasn't just one cyl with a misfire. But msd did give a spec on resistance per foot, i'll pull the wires and check it out.

Is it possible that the computer somehow is messed up, i'm not throwing any codes for a too rich/lean. And in the 3 years i've had the truck, and tons of wires i've burned never thrown a misfire code. Or the cam came degreed wrong? I did check firing order with the cam in, but didn't degree it.
 






A general camshaft will be close to its designed specs, not perfect but close. It isn't likely bad or the cause, even if the timing wasn't perfect. Don't worry about the degreeing, that should be done with all new cam installations, but don't go back at it with it assembled.

That missing wouldn't be from a cam timing issue. Who chose the springs and how were they set up? That is getting into the engine, but you sound like you are running out of external items to check. It is very important that the springs are selected by the experts who designed the cam. Don't let anyone including yourself pick valve springs by advertised dimensions/specs.

There is a bunch of horsepower in the valvetrain, hp to be lost or gained depending on whether the right parts are in there now. The cam maker is the one who should select them, or another cam expert who knows the particular cam. On the SBFtech forum I have seen countless threads of people who have mixed and matched parts, and usually the valvetrain is wrong. The engines with heads set up by the cam guru will fly, the others are so so, not so special.

Examine all of the external possibilities before getting back into the engine. What diagnostic tests haven't you done yet, try to come up with another solution. Look around slowly for vacuum leaks, those are very common. Re torque the intake bolts, check wiring for frays or burnt sections, check connectors, all grounds.
 






The springs I'm running were chosen by a local high performance engine shop, Lukovich racing. www.lukovichracing.com They are pretty helpful. Besides the high dollar, high performance engines they build, they do all mail order stuff, summit jegs etc.

Before I dive into the motor i've got one more thing to check out. I'm going to get the ecm checked out. I'm hoping this is the problem, its the easiese to fix :) Whats leading me to get this checked out is the weird codes i've been getting. Even before i did the motor swap. 1260 is an antitheft code, and 1729 is a 4-low switch error. I don't know how a computer for a vehicle that never had 4 low can throw a 4low switch error. I've checked all the electrical and sensors for the spark system except for the ecm.

I'm assuming the ford dealership can check computers..? Otherwise i've seen some on ebay with the right computer code and right year/make/motor as mine for around $60.

Can a pcv cause any of these problems?
 












The PCM isn't very easy to check, but ask them. Swapping may be what a dealership would choose to do also. But do you know what is involved in that? If you had a non PATS model you could swap it yourself. With PATS it requires a special Ford diagnostic tool which will remarry the PCM and PATS modules together. That tool is not common, most dealerships charge a lot to do that.

I was fortunate with my 99 when I needed to add new keys. The same tool is used to erase PATS key codes when you have less than two. You have to have two to add others, otherwise you have to erase all key codes and begin over. That tool takes ten minutes to erase the key codes. I'd predict that the PCM and PATS module marriage would also be an automated program by that tool. Meaning it isn't hard for them to do it, but it doesn't always work each time. They will charge you some preset fee for sure to do that.
 






Hmm.. So there might not be a way for them to check for a bad ecm? I believe gm vehicles are seperate, but in a ford is the Powertrain control module and the Engine control module 2 seperate computers? And if so is the PATS tied into the pcm or the ecm?.. So much for an easy fix.. :(
 



Join the Elite Explorers for $20 each year.
Elite Explorer members see no advertisements, no banner ads, no double underlined links,.
Add an avatar, upload photo attachments, and more!
.





I burned a wire in 30 min and as soon as it missfired the check engine light came on in a few minutes.






http://autorepair.about.com/library/faqs/bl025h.htm

Its this that makes me think It might be a ECM problem. The only code i'm getting is the 4lo switch error. No matter how many times I disconnect the battery.

On a side note, I would use my livewire to do some datalogging but the new version has a problem with the installer, and it erased the previous version, so untill i can call sct monday, i'm SOL.
 






Back
Top