New shock/strut assembly question

[shane10]

Hi all, I'm looking to replace all 4 shock/struts whatever you guys prefer with Monroe quick struts. There is no serious problems with my suspension, but with near 160,000 miles I figure it is time to replace them and firm up my ride.
As I was researching what to buy, I came across a thread (http://www.explorerforum.com/forums/showthread.php?t=411610) that stated he had an unusually bumpy ride due to unintentionally installing both Variable and Constant rate spring assemblies.
From what I got from that thread, the front OEM springs in my 2002 Explorer are constant, and the rears are variable.
My question is, does Monroe acknowledge this, and put variable springs in the rear assembly, or do they even provide the option of Variable/constant?
According to the thread mentioned, he received and installed both variable and constant which produced the unpleasant ride. If Monroe doesn't provide the option of variable, will constant be sufficient?
Thanks for the help

 

[LMHmedchem]

This is what I would use,

KYB SR4081 Strut-Plus Front ($134)
KYB SR4051 Strut-Plus Rear ($155)

These are for the v8 4.6L since you didn't specify the engine. I suspect they are the same for the v6 4.0L, but you should check if that is what you have.

At the moment, these cost more than the Munroe. About two weeks ago, the rears were on sale for $78 each, now they are twice that. Go figure.

The main issue is going to be getting the old struts off. I would try box ratchets on the top nuts on the rear and make sure that you can get some purchase on the nuts. You may have to go down one or two sizes on your wrench if there is significant rust. I had one that was completely rounded off with rust. There is no room in there for an extractor socket (maybe the back one) so you want to have a plan before you start. It helps to use PB the day before and the day of. I would make sure you can at least loosen all of the nuts, including the shock absorber bolt and wheel knuckle bolt before starting in. You can cut the top bolts off with a grinder or air hammer but access is very tight. The fronts are not so bad because you can access the bolts from under the hood. I always try to get everything loosened up at least a little before I decide if I am going to go for it or not. That's also a good time to check to make sure you have all of the sockets, box wrenches and box ratchets you need.

LMHmedchem

 

[shane10]

I am going with Monroe quick struts.
I was just wondering about the importance of the rear assembly being variable vs. constant rate spring

 

[Number4]

The individual who got the non variable springs used Amazon. I'd contacted Monroe and iirc they didn't make it in non variable. So the Amazon ones weren't Monroes.

I've purchased two sets and in both instances the rear springs were variable. I myself would be interested in using KYB's, so I could compare them both.

I also asked Monroe why not go with KYB, they stated that their testing and warranty were more superior, basically acknowledging that KYB's are equal.

 

[LMHmedchem]

I am going with Monroe quick struts.
I was just wondering about the importance of the rear assembly being variable vs. constant rate spring

I used KYB because when I bought them they were a bit less expensive then the Munroe. They are also refereed to as OE+, for whatever that is worth. I likely would have used Munroe if they cost less at the time I was buying.

At any rate, they KYB have worked well and the ride is nice. The only thing I have to compare to is the originals, which were 14 years old when I replaced them (one broken spring). I did an alignment right afterwords as well, which I would recommend.

Whatever you get, rockauto.com is very difficult to beat for the pricing. These will be $100-$150 more at advance auto, autozone, etc.

LMHmedchem

 

[shane10]

I used KYB because when I bought them they were a bit less expensive then the Munroe. They are also refereed to as OE+, for whatever that is worth. I likely would have used Munroe if they cost less at the time I was buying.

At any rate, they KYB have worked well and the ride is nice. The only thing I have to compare to is the originals, which were 14 years old when I replaced them (one broken spring). I did an alignment right afterwords as well, which I would recommend.

Whatever you get, rockauto.com is very difficult to beat for the pricing. These will be $100-$150 more at advance auto, autozone, etc.

LMHmedchem

I was able to find the rears for 80 and front for 77 a piece on auto geek with free shipping. This seemed like a STEAL to everything else i was looking at, almost to good of a deal? :scratch:. And price aside, I had already made up my mind on them and am hard to convince otherwise haha.

Thanks for all the advice on the install, i just started doing actual repairs on my own car, and learned the hard way what a pain in the ass stuck/stripped bolts can be on my thermostat housing. A 1 hour job turned into a nearly 3 day job trying to get ONE stubborn bolt that had become corroded to the housing itself. :fire::fire:

 

[LMHmedchem]

I was able to find the rears for 80 and front for 77 a piece on auto geek with free shipping. This seemed like a STEAL to everything else i was looking at, almost to good of a deal? :scratch:. And price aside, I had already made up my mind on them and am hard to convince otherwise haha.

These typically run just a bit over $100 from a good online retailer. They can easily be $300+ from your local parts store. The prices you found are very good. I would look for some pictures on the Munroe site and make a careful comparison when you get the parts. Look especially for the distance between the spring coils from top to bottom.

Thanks for all the advice on the install, i just started doing actual repairs on my own car, and learned the hard way what a pain in the ass stuck/stripped bolts can be on my thermostat housing. A 1 hour job turned into a nearly 3 day job trying to get ONE stubborn bolt that had become corroded to the housing itself. :fire::fire:

The shock absorber bolt and the wheel knuckle bolt are pretty big. I seem to recall using a 22mm, 19mm and 18mm. Also, I seem to remember that nuts were not the same gauge as the bolts. Allot of socket sets don't go that big, plus you will need deep sockets. You will also need a breaker bar and extension pipe. The pipe will also help to push down the spring loaded lower control arm when you need to get the old strut out and the new one in.

The day before you start, I would take off each wheel and make sure you have sockets for the bolt and a box wrench for the nut for the shock absorber bolt and wheel knuckle bolt. I would make sure you have box wrenches and box ratchets for the top nuts. Make sure these can fit over the nut and get some purchase. You may need both metric and standard sizes to find wrenches that will fit on all of the rusted out bolts.

You will also need a deep socket for the sway bar link bolt (up from the bottom) and a box ratchet for the nut on top. I would spray at least a 1/2 can of PB on each side the day before and then another half can per side about an hour before. I would also have an angle grinder ready for the top bolts. If you are good with a grinder, you may just want to cut the top bolts off instead of messing with them. Access to the rear bolt is difficult, so be careful. If you have never used a grinder and have to go that route, be very, very careful, wear safety equipment and take your time.

This is definitely a padded gloves job unless you hate your hands. You might be able to do both rears in one pass, but I would plan to do one at a time. I'm way past the point of being able to do more than that at once, but maybe you are in better shape.

LMHmedchem

 

[drdoom]

I'm not sure if this has been mentioned, but many members report seizure of the front left shock-to-lower control arm bolt. Many epic reports myself included. Be advised. Best wishes.
Doc

 

[apenland01]

The rears are easy to do. The fronts require more work. If you live in a sunny state, like in the Southwest somewhere, your bolts will play nice and the job will be smooth. If you live in a snow infested state, your bolts won't play nice and you'll invent new cuss words. Let us know what those new cuss words are....

 

[shane10]

The individual who got the non variable springs used Amazon. I'd contacted Monroe and iirc they didn't make it in non variable. So the Amazon ones weren't Monroes.

I've purchased two sets and in both instances the rear springs were variable. I myself would be interested in using KYB's, so I could compare them both.

I also asked Monroe why not go with KYB, they stated that their testing and warranty were more superior, basically acknowledging that KYB's are equal.

Thanks I guess I missed that bit of info, I will be ordering from Rockauto so I hope to not receive knock-offs.
How do the Monroe's ride? As far as I know i have stock suspension (near 160,000) so i'm sure it would be a huge improvement. I'm considering KYB's now, but at $200 total more i'm not sure, plus from what I read they provide a stiffer ride, which is not necessarily what i'm looking for.
I should stop looking into it so much and stick with the Monroe's to save some money. Every other thread and post conflicts the last, Monroe's are better/worse, don't last, KYB's ride like a rock.. blah blah blah.

 

[shane10]

These typically run just a bit over $100 from a good online retailer. They can easily be $300+ from your local parts store. The prices you found are very good. I would look for some pictures on the Munroe site and make a careful comparison when you get the parts. Look especially for the distance between the spring coils from top to bottom.



The shock absorber bolt and the wheel knuckle bolt are pretty big. I seem to recall using a 22mm, 19mm and 18mm. Also, I seem to remember that nuts were not the same gauge as the bolts. Allot of socket sets don't go that big, plus you will need deep sockets. You will also need a breaker bar and extension pipe. The pipe will also help to push down the spring loaded lower control arm when you need to get the old strut out and the new one in.

The day before you start, I would take off each wheel and make sure you have sockets for the bolt and a box wrench for the nut for the shock absorber bolt and wheel knuckle bolt. I would make sure you have box wrenches and box ratchets for the top nuts. Make sure these can fit over the nut and get some purchase. You may need both metric and standard sizes to find wrenches that will fit on all of the rusted out bolts.

You will also need a deep socket for the sway bar link bolt (up from the bottom) and a box ratchet for the nut on top. I would spray at least a 1/2 can of PB on each side the day before and then another half can per side about an hour before. I would also have an angle grinder ready for the top bolts. If you are good with a grinder, you may just want to cut the top bolts off instead of messing with them. Access to the rear bolt is difficult, so be careful. If you have never used a grinder and have to go that route, be very, very careful, wear safety equipment and take your time.

This is definitely a padded gloves job unless you hate your hands. You might be able to do both rears in one pass, but I would plan to do one at a time. I'm way past the point of being able to do more than that at once, but maybe you are in better shape.

LMHmedchem

I was looking at the Monroe Econo-Matic which i'm going to steer away from, you were right, for the normal Quick-Struts it will be around $420 total.

This truck is still in great condition, but after 14 Minnesota winters the undercarriage has taken a beating. I took a look (more of a feel) around and found the top bolts to be entirely rounded, not much more than a nub left. I have a battery powered dremel which could take them off, granted there's enough room to get it in there with it. I also noticed up front, the rubber nub to the upper control arm/ball joint (i believe) is completely shot, is this a concern? It is also peeling like crazy, almost looks like a crack, unless the coating is really that thick.
Is it worth replacing while i'm in the area? Are they known to fail? I plan on driving this truck as long as I can, so just wondering if it's worth the precaution.
Thanks!

EDIT: Definitely upper control arm/ball joint. The ball joint rubber is almost degraded entirely, looks like an easy enough fix, and goes hand in hand with shock/struts, if I decided to go through with it

 

[Joe in NY]

I was looking at the Monroe Econo-Matic which i'm going to steer away from, you were right, for the normal Quick-Struts it will be around $420 total.

This truck is still in great condition, but after 14 Minnesota winters the undercarriage has taken a beating. I took a look (more of a feel) around and found the top bolts to be entirely rounded, not much more than a nub left. I have a battery powered dremel which could take them off, granted there's enough room to get it in there with it. I also noticed up front, the rubber nub to the upper control arm/ball joint (i believe) is completely shot, is this a concern? It is also peeling like crazy, almost looks like a crack, unless the coating is really that thick.
Is it worth replacing while i'm in the area? Are they known to fail? I plan on driving this truck as long as I can, so just wondering if it's worth the precaution.
Thanks!

EDIT: Definitely upper control arm/ball joint. The ball joint rubber is almost degraded entirely, looks like an easy enough fix, and goes hand in hand with shock/struts, if I decided to go through with it

On cars, bolt ends are nubs. For guiding. This is normal. see pic

 

[shane10]

On cars, bolt ends are nubs. For guiding. This is normal.[/IMG]

Not the bolt ends, the nuts on the bolts are rusted to almost nothing, I'm just going to assume a socket won't work and cut them off

 

[TechGuru]

I recently replaced all 4 struts with Sensen's for a total of $103.11.
https://www.rockauto.com/catalog/moreinfo.php?pk=6559440

I reused the factory springs by using a loan-a-tool Spring compressor from AutoZone.
http://www.autozone.com/loan-a-tools/strut-spring-compressor/oem-strut-spring-compressor/555557_0_0/

Wanted to get KYB or Rancho but my budget did not permit and at 180K my factory struts were totally gone (after removal only 1 of them had any pressure to self rise and it was pretty slow). Also with a flashing O/D light and whining rear differential I don't want to make any large investments until that stuff has been fixed.

I think replacing springs are a big waste of money.

 

[Number4]

I think replacing springs are a big waste of money.

The springs on these, at least the rear, are known for breaking.

 

[TechGuru]

The springs on these, at least the rear, are known for breaking.

Well if they're broken duh they need to be replaced. Mine were fine. If they're not broken it's a waste of money to replace them.

 

[shane10]

Well if they're broken duh they need to be replaced. Mine were fine. If they're not broken it's a waste of money to replace them.

I have heard they're prone to breaking too, plus i'm a rather new "mechanic" so the idea of having the full assembly ready to go seems like a much more practical idea to me

EDIT: Not to mention the springs are 160,000 miles old, the rears look to be sagging significantly, and quite rusty. The fronts look o.k. to my untrained eye, and still have some coating on them? :scratch:

 

[TechGuru]

I thought I'd post the proper torque specs and some how to videos...

Front:

Rear:

Here are some videos on how to replace the assembly's:

Front:


Rear:

 

[LMHmedchem]

I don't see any particular difference between the Munroe and KYB, as long as we are talking that standard quick struts and not the economy grade. There are allot of owners here who have used Munroe and found them to be just fine.

Munroe,
MONROE 171321 Quick-Strut Front (2x $103)
MONROE 171322 Quick-Strut Rear (2x $108)
Total $420 +~$40 shipping

KYB
KYB SR4081 Strut-Plus Front (2x$134)
KYB SR4051 Strut-Plus Rear (2x $155)
Total $576 +~$40 shipping

At the moment, the KYB are $150 more expensive. This is not always the case. I have heard the KYB described as a slightly better grade part, but I'm not sure I would put much stock in that. If the KYB had been that much more expensive when I did mine, I would have used Munroe. I think you are fine in using the least expensive parts because I think that both are quality.

One of my springs was broken, so I didn't have the option to re-use the springs. I think that the job is harder if you have to rent/borrow a spring compressor. For me, I am saving so much by doing things myself I don't mind putting some of the savings back into parts. If I needed to get the job done and only had $250, I might think differently.

I think it's fine to cut off the top nuts, just be very sure that you have the shock absorber bolt, wheel knuckle bolt, and sway bar link well loosened before you start cutting off the top bolts. That's number 3, 5, and 6 in the very nice schematic posted by techguru above. If you cut off the top and can't get the rest loose, you will be having your truck towed to a garage to finish the work.

If the boots on the upper ball joints are split, then they are very likely toast. You can check to see if there is any play there that shouldn't be. I'm sure you can find a youtube video on how to check your ball joints. The upper control arm is another situation where it's hard to know weather to save money by just replacing the ball joint, or to replace the entire control arm (which includes a new ball joint).

MOTORCRAFT MCSOE13 {#1L2Z3085AA} front left upper ($104)
MOTORCRAFT MCSOE12 {#1L2Z3084AA} front right upper ($106)

The ball joints themselves run about $30. You can get them for as low as $5, but I would never put anything like that in my suspension. If you do just the ball joint, you have to use a ball press to get the old ball joint out and press the new one into the UCA. Again, there will be plenty of youtube videos for this. I like to use Motocraft parts for control arms and ball joints and I don't think that Motocraft sells the upper ball joint without the control arm. Someone else can give you a recommendation for a ball joint if you want to go that route. Look at the UCA carefully. I have seen them rusted out around the ball joint to the extent that the ball joint is almost coming out of the arm. That would be a disaster if it happened at high speed, like an end over end flip disaster.

If you have the $220 to do the UCAs, I think it makes sense if you are over 150,000. If you only have $100, you can probably manage to replace just the ball joints. I also live where salt and rust are a major part of the picture and I tend to lean towards replacement.

You are definitely headed for a 4-wheel alignment after this, so keep that as part of the budget as well.

LMHmedchem

 

[TechGuru]

I have heard they're prone to breaking too, plus i'm a rather new "mechanic" so the idea of having the full assembly ready to go seems like a much more practical idea to me

EDIT: Not to mention the springs are 160,000 miles old, the rears look to be sagging significantly, and quite rusty. The fronts look o.k. to my untrained eye, and still have some coating on them? :scratch:

Odd, mine still has a factory rake to it and the rear are so stiff than a full load of firewood in the back with the rear seats down barely makes it sink.

Oh, I think maybe 4x4 models have different/better springs??? Can anyone confirm?