No Start Issue 99 Limited UPDATED

[mfitz725]

Hi everyone. I was having an issue with the Explorer SOHC 4.0 not wanting to restart when it was warm. Was cranking fine cold (other than needing new intake seals-thats next) and most times it took 2-3 tries to restart it when warm. Then suddenly one day it didn't want to start at all. I kept trying and started cycling the key on and off and it eventually started. I replaced the temp sensor and it seemed to have corrected the problem. Now 2 or 3 days later I went out and it won't start at all. I tried cycling it from off to on up to 10 times but no. I've never been able to hear the fuel pump prime up in the past so I got someone to turn the key on while I was at the fuel door, put a transmission funnel in it, put my ear to that and heard zero when it was turned to on. I also swapped the relays so that's not the problem.

That really make me think it is the fuel pump ( I already have as a just in case thing) but don't want to pull the tank unless I know for sure that's the problem. Any other test I can try. I searched the Forum but can't seem to find the right answer. Thanks for any advise you can provide.

OK FORGET MOST OF THE ABOVE UPDATE UPDATE UPDATE

I did pull codes on this a couple of days ago and saw a code that said PATS had disabled the engine. I was confused because it the same key I have always used with no problem so I ignored it as a fluke. On a hunch I went out with my spare key and it started almost immediately. Tried my usual key again, did start after a couple of seconds. Tried spare key again, immediate start. Tried original key again. Delayed but it did start. Could something funky be going on here? Any ideas would be greatly appreciated.

 

[mfitz725]

It's been about an hour since I changed the above posting about the key issue. Went back out and my normal key wouldn't start it but the spare would. I don't understand how a key could lose it's programming. I've been using it since I got the X in '17. Since these are the only two keys I have am I stuck with having to have the dealership clear the PCM and reprogram the keys? Or is there a way around that?

 

[mfitz725]

Today both keys started the vehicle. I remembered that I have one additional key (I keep it my wallet and forgot about it being there) and it works fine as well. I don't know what to think. I'll just have to wait until it won't start again and see if one of the other keys will work.

I never got any response from anyone on the forum. I guess no one had any ideas to throw my way.

 

[donalds]

The only thing that pops in my head is to look under the steering column for wires rubbing through I would remove the column plastic trim and really look it over

 

[Mbrooks420]

I would get a new key ASAP, and reprogram the new key while the key you are having issues with still works some. Otherwise, you will be stuck doing it through FORScan, or at a locksmith/dealer.

 

[mfitz725]

I would get a new key ASAP, and reprogram the new key while the key you are having issues with still works some. Otherwise, you will be stuck doing it through FORScan, or at a locksmith/dealer.

I have 2 spares and the one that may be a problem. I bought another key on Ebay and an Ace hardware was willing to cut it but wouldn't work. The blank didn't exactly match the ones I already have so I'm not clear about what was going on there. They did give me my money back though.

 

[Pr27.11]

I have 2 spares and the one that may be a problem. I bought another key on Ebay and an Ace hardware was willing to cut it but wouldn't work. The blank didn't exactly match the ones I already have so I'm not clear about what was going on there. They did give me my money back though.

Wanting to keep in touch as my 4.0 xlt crank no start theft code. No reason for it since Tuesday Sigh

 

[J_C]

I have 2 spares and the one that may be a problem. I bought another key on Ebay and an Ace hardware was willing to cut it but wouldn't work. The blank didn't exactly match the ones I already have so I'm not clear about what was going on there. They did give me my money back though.

When you wrote "wouldn't work" do you mean it would not turn the lock cylinder or that it did but the vehicle wouldn't start? If it wouldn't turn the cylinder, definitely that's a key cutting mistake. If it did turn but just wouldn't start then it still needs programmed which can be done yourself since you have the 2 other working (for now) keys.

Was the one that temporarily didn't work, on a keyring with a bunch of other metal things (like keys lol)? Only thing that comes to mind at the moment is maybe too much other metal is interfering with a good PATS coil power or transmission between the key chip and the module in the steering column, or it was a short term shorting of wires or oxidation on the contacts to the module, maybe temperature or humidity related?

 

[koda2000]

OP, When a key doesn't work is the THEFT light blinking quickly? if not then the issue isn't the key.

Also, I noticed that you created 2 threads on the same problem. Please don't do this. One now says SOLVED and one doesn't. Please consolidate these threads into one if it makes sense and/or delete one of them.

 

[donalds]

I still say check for broken wire's

 

[mfitz725]

OP, When a key doesn't work is the THEFT light blinking quickly? if not then the issue isn't the key.

Also, I noticed that you created 2 threads on the same problem. Please don't do this. One now says SOLVED and one doesn't. Please consolidate these threads into one if it makes sense and/or delete one of them.

Sorry, didn't mean to create two intentionally, I know you guys hate that. I thought they were going to be separate issues as one seem to be related to It not restarting when warm, and replacing the temp sensor seemed to have fixed that, and the other seemed to be a key problem. But they somehow got intertwined. I just wanted to be sure to have info available to anyone who ran into something similar. I'm not sure I know how to combine them. Would you kindly point me in the right direction? Do I copy items over from one post to the other as a reply might be or what? Thanks for letting me know.

As for the light blinking, I'm not sure, will have to look as somewhere in the past someone put a mysterious button beside the hood release and there is wiring added there and some near the battery, and the light got broken off and hangs in behind the dash. I don't know what was there it seems to have been removed.

 

[mfitz725]

When you wrote "wouldn't work" do you mean it would not turn the lock cylinder or that it did but the vehicle wouldn't start? If it wouldn't turn the cylinder, definitely that's a key cutting mistake. If it did turn but just wouldn't start then it still needs programmed which can be done yourself since you have the 2 other working (for now) keys.

Was the one that temporarily didn't work, on a keyring with a bunch of other metal things (like keys lol)? Only thing that comes to mind at the moment is maybe too much other metal is interfering with a good PATS coil power or transmission between the key chip and the module in the steering column, or it was a short term shorting of wires or oxidation on the contacts to the module, maybe temperature or humidity related?

Didn't work in this case meant wouldn't start, sorry for the confusion. Yes it is on a ring with other keys but it hangs lower than the rest of them as it has two rings on it to make it easier to grab. It and the remote fob hang lower than all the other keys. If that makes any difference. I do have 2 other spares and will keep one with me all the time in case I run into a problem again. In all my years never saw anything like this exactly. Many years ago I was a Service Manager for a Honda shop. Wish my Explorer knowledge was as good as on a Honda!!lol

 

[mfitz725]

Ok, it's definitely the key. I just went out to go somewhere and my usual key wouldn't start it, cranks but no start. Tried twice. Put one of my spares in and it started on the first try. I know it's probably over precautionary but I like having more than two keys so will get another one made up. At least that way I'll always have two to do programming with in case one gets lost.

As an added note, it is running much better after installing the temp sensor. It was settling in to a rough idle when warm at stops. It is much smoother now. Plus the cold starts are improved as well.

Thanks to everyone for their input in this.

 

[mfitz725]

Wanting to keep in touch as my 4.0 xlt crank no start theft code. No reason for it since Tuesday Sigh

Do you have a spare key to try?

 

[Pr27.11]

Do you have a spare key to try?

Yes have 2 ford original keys. The other one did make a difference either. I’m getting normal activity from the theft light.

 

[Pr27.11]

Ok, it's definitely the key. I just went out to go somewhere and my usual key wouldn't start it, cranks but no start. Tried twice. Put one of my spares in and it started on the first try. I know it's probably over precautionary but I like having more than two keys so will get another one made up. At least that way I'll always have two to do programming with in case one gets lost.

As an added note, it is running much better after installing the temp sensor. It was settling in to a rough idle when warm at stops. It is much smoother now. Plus the cold starts are improved as well.

Thanks to everyone for their input in this.

Can I ask you about your theft light please? Did it do any rapid flashing with the not working key? Or did it appear normal?

 

[mfitz725]

Can I ask you about your theft light please? Did it do any rapid flashing with the not working key? Or did it appear normal?

I'm afraid I can't tell about theft light as someone, before I got the vehicle, managed to pull it out of it's place behind the plastic lens and it dangles underneath the dash where I really can't see it unless I am bent down enough. I need to put it back, just haven't yet. Put new instrument panel lights 2 wks ago but didn't notice it until I had almost everything back together. First nice day or weather I'll do that.

Do you have an OBDII reader to see if you are getting any codes? I got, as mentioned on some post: Code: B1602 - PATS Received Invalid Format of Key Code from Ignition Transponder. If you haven't got one I think they are well worth the cost. On Ebay I didn't pay much for it and the Forscan app for your phone to bluetooth link it (full version) is 5 bucks. They have a free app version but I don't know what it leaves off in ability to read DTC codes.

 

[Pr27.11]

I'm afraid I can't tell about theft light as someone, before I got the vehicle, managed to pull it out of it's place behind the plastic lens and it dangles underneath the dash where I really can't see it unless I am bent down enough. I need to put it back, just haven't yet. Put new instrument panel lights 2 wks ago but didn't notice it until I had almost everything back together. First nice day or weather I'll do that.

Do you have an OBDII reader to see if you are getting any codes? I got, as mentioned on some post: Code: B1602 - PATS Received Invalid Format of Key Code from Ignition Transponder. If you haven't got one I think they are well worth the cost. On Ebay I didn't pay much for it and the Forscan app for your phone to bluetooth link it (full version) is 5 bucks. They have a free app version but I don't know what it leaves off in ability to read DTC codes.

Yeah I got p1000 and p1260 my theft light is in my instrument panel. Than you for helping me this is awful for me.

 

[mfitz725]

Yeah I got p1000 and p1260 my theft light is in my instrument panel. Than you for helping me this is awful for me.

According to the lookup I just did:
The P1000 DTC code is a manufacturer specific trouble code. In the case of Ford & Jaguar vehicles, it simply means that the OBD-II monitor testing is not complete.
Error Code P1260 is set when the PATS (Passive Anti-Theft System) have determined a theft condition in the system which disabled the engine, or the engine will not start from a non-PATs key attempt. This error code is also a good indicator to check the PATs for error codes.

I googled how to clear the p1260 and got several results. One was about a Mustang but involved using a PATS tune file which I'm not familiar with. Apparently it's a file that changes the stock PCM data. I would suggest researching that line of reasoning some. You can try searching the forum here to see if there is any info on resetting the PCM. I do know that disconnecting the battery for a while will reset certain data but am not sure how much. See if you can come up with anything from that. (here is the link to the Mustang instructions: My PATS P1260 DTC problem and how I fixed it - if you want to look)

 

[mfitz725]

Yes have 2 ford original keys. The other one did make a difference either. I’m getting normal activity from the theft light.

I'm sorry but I'm not clear here. Are you saying you were able to start the vehicle or it didn't make any difference? It seems I can't quite discern what you were intending to say.