Official Matrix Revolutions Thread, SPOILERS INSIDE

[Stephen]

Bryan, well then you can probably shed more light on religious references that we may have missed. Go see it again! lol

One question that I had, and the kids seem to agree with me was that the Architect and whatever Neo spoke to in the machine city are not one in the same....

Also I dont believe the architect won in the end. I dont think anyone won. He says to the Oracle "You went down a very dangerous road this time" meaning that whatever the ultimate goal was, it was reached and the Matrix was re-booted. The Oracle however simply made sure this time that it was done in a different way, mainly with Zion not being destroyed. I dont think the Architect and the Oracle are enemies, they are simply opposites. He balances the equation, and she unbalances it.

I'm still trying to figure out who the Oracle is though, and why she can see what she does.

 

[Brandon4AU]

I agree about the architect and that machine not being the same. And when the oracle is described she is described as an "intuitive" program. My guess is that what she says does not have to happen...but it is her assumption. All of her assumptions are based on choices and lead to more choices. If that makes sense...probably not.

 

[Nate1]

Not to get off topic, but I heard it sucked and know a large part of the ending story now, I am waiting to see the movie to see if the Bros can redeem my faith, but from what I've been hearing, it sounds like I am in for a bitter disappointment.

Dont get me wrong... I love to analyize everything.. mabey I will see something in it. For that reason I ahve not read this thread so as to keep my views on it 'sanitary'.... but we will see, tomorrow.

 

[jasonb]

like i said earlier.. this movie would suck to those unable to think about a plot past the normal shoot em up movie.

 

[CoryL]

Just saw the movie. Loved it. Best out of the three by far. Sure, there are holes, but like it has been stated before, I think they are left open on purpose. That purpose being what is going on here right now; discussion.

My insights, whatever they are worth are as follows:

The Christian religious connotations are everywhere and have been since the first movie. Like it was stated earlier, all of the things coming in threes, "the Holy Trinity," Neo being called "The One" and having people believe in what he does soley based on faith. You could write a book purely on the religious over/undertones of all three movies. There are more religions represented in this movie than Christianity. Buddism and Islam are also sprinkled around as well.

Exestentialism is a very big part of these movies. If you have never studied philosophy, do a seach online and look up some writings on it. Camus, Satre, and Dostyevsky (sp) are all excellent reads, especially Camus in my opinion. This philisophical belief came to a climax when Mr. Smith asked Neo why he does what he does and Neo replies by saying, "Because I choose to." That simple statement, in a nutshell, defines exestentialism.

Love is also another widely used theme in all of the movies, and even moreso in this one. It is one of the most powerful human emotions and pretty much dictates many of the choices we make.

Neo's ability to disable the machines I believe is an example of the untapped abilites we humans contain, but do not comprehend how to use. Neo, being "The One" has come to that realization and can use those abilities. I believe Mr. Smith can do the same things in the Matrix for the same reason, because he is the polar opposite of Neo.

On several boards I have seen people ask the question about the point of the train station scene. Many do not understand its importance. I am unsure of what it means specifically, but I do believe it to be of importance. I think it has something to do with the fact that although Neo is powerful, he is not all-powerful. There are places he cannot go and things he cannot do. Like everything else in the movies, things must be balanced. There is no absolute.

I do not believe that Neo or Mr. Smith were tools of The Oracle or The Architect, respectively. I do believe that Neo and Mr. Smith were the acualizations of the struggles The Oracle and The Architect go through when it is time to revamp the Matrix.

One of the biggest themes running through all of the movies, again, especially this one, is that of duality. Every action has an equal and opposite one. Neo and Mr. Smith, The Oracle and The Architect, Zion and the Machine World, The Real World and The Matrix, War and Peace, Love and Hate, Life and Death. I even think that theme is expressed in the movies themselves. The original movie was philisophical, but more action oriented. Reloaded was more philisophical and less action oreiented, and Revolutions was a combination of both.

I'm sure more will come to me as it sinks in and I think about it more. Those are my initial thoughts on it thus far. I will add more as I think it up and cannot wait to read more of what everyone else thinks.

 

[Silverblade]

Anyone remember on simpsons when lisa is training bart for mini golf and she asks him "if a tree falls in the woods and no one is around to hear it would it make a sound?" and when she explains how sound can not exist if no one is around to hear it...and his eyes light up and he "sees the light"...well that is what i did reading your guys' AWESOME opinions on certain parts!
And also a small plus was that you guys just read my bullshit story of a cartoon show thinking it would relate somehow to the matrix

 

[Brandon4AU]

"The Simpson's" is always relative!

 

[FourXFred]

great movie. im not religious AT ALL, but i definitely also saw a lot religion in that movie. trinity died for way to long, and that last fight scene between neo and smith reminded me somrthing in peter pan. whats the deal with all of the flying? i thought smith HAD to follow all of the rules that humans did, and therefore he cant fly. the fight scene in zion was incredible. basically, the movie reminded me of a church in back woods florida i once visited. a lot of preaching and religion, and a ****load of machine guns. i NEED one of those fighting machine gun things that they defended zion with. it would be my new daily driver. i also need a female termintaor out of terminator 3, but thats a different story.....

 

[MyExpWork]

I too wondered why Neo and Trinity did not blast the EMP when inside the machine city.

My problem with the story is that if Neo was the Savior, why is it that he only save Zion? I guess from M1 he was the one who would save Zion and nothing more.

I am dissapointed because the humans are still living underground. Didn't they want a better existence than that?

I just had an insight. The architect, or whoever, made a promise to Neo that he would grant peace. He had to keep his promise because he is a computer program. Therefore he should have no emotion, just logic.

I have two questions.

What, if anything, will cause the architect to "declare" war again on Zion?

And why did the machines attack to destroy Zion the 5 previous times? What logical purpose did it serve? Did "feel" threatened or was it simply to create a better version of the Matrix? I am gonna have to watch M2 again.

Brian

 

[Brans Freestyle]

Originally posted by Scormunch
Jason, you're right Neo didn't die. If you remember waaaay back to the end of M1, Neo makes a phonecall that takes place 19 months after the first movie. M2 and M3 take place only 6 months after M1 ends, so we know Neo is still alive at least 13 months after the end of M3

that isnt a confirmed thing yet. i think ill have to watch the dvd again to get that, but i havnt figured out the importance of that phonecall yet. but from other forums that ive read, in M2 morph said that 'in the past 6 months we've freed more minds than ever' or something to that nature. that implies that they have been doing quite well in the past 6 months alone, but not that its been 6 months since M1.

Also, has anyone else thought about the equation part of neo vs smith? in M2 the architect talks about how neo is the anamoly in the matrix. but in M3 the oracle says that smith is his exact opposite, and smith is not somewhat of an anomoly i guess. this is the only thing ive though of so far how they both "died": since neo and smith are exact opposites, and are the anomolies in the equation, then in math terms wouldnt they cancel each other out? i think thats why the only way to kill him was to have smith copy himself into neo, so they are both the same and then have the spike ball thing do whatever it did and kill them. i know that very vauge, but its something that ive been trying to figure out.

 

[CoryL]

Originally posted by Brans Freestyle
that isnt a confirmed thing yet. i think ill have to watch the dvd again to get that, but i havnt figured out the importance of that phonecall yet.

Who started that? Where can more information be found on that? Can someone explain how they figured out the 19 month timeframe?

i think thats why the only way to kill him was to have smith copy himself into neo, so they are both the same and then have the spike ball thing do whatever it did and kill them. i know that very vauge, but its something that ive been trying to figure out.

I see it along similar, yet different lines.

Both Neo and Smith have found ways to circumvent the Matrix as well as discovering ways to exist in the two places at once. Because of this, had Neo and Trinity fired the EMP when they first entered the Machine City, half of Smith's enemies would have been eliminated. I think Neo knew this and did not fire it. I think he knew how to defeat Smith once he reached the Machine City. So Trin dies (a little long, but totally neccessary for the love theme) and Neo enters on foot. The Machine "Leader" shows up and is ready to kill Neo. Neo wants to save Zion and defeat Smith and knows that he is the only way. He also knows that he needs the Machines' help. So in order to help each other out, call truce in order to become allies to defeat Smith.

So Neo plugs back into the Matrix to fight Smith. I believe he knew he was going to allow Smith to replicate himself onto him all along, but had to put up the appearance of fighting, struggling, and then "losing" to get Smith to actually do it. When Smith does copy himself onto Neo in the end, he is reinserted into the Matrix and the Machine "Leader" can terminate Smith, using Neo as a channel.

If Smith is "dead" and is also Neo's opposite, than Neo should be "dead" as well to balance the equation. Since both sides are neccessary to maintain balance, both will be recreated as the next "One" and the next "Anti-One" in the new Matrix. Which one is created first is up to the Oracle and Architect. I'd assume the "One" would be created first since the Oracle likes to unbalance the equations.

Does anyone remember what Smith calls the little Indian girl? I can't remember and need to know.

 

[CoryL]

Originally posted by MyExpWork
I am dissapointed because the humans are still living underground. Didn't they want a better existence than that?

Since the sky was scortched, the sun doesn't shine and chances are it is too cold for normal humans to exist. Neo can do it because he is the "One." Besides that, the time it would take for the humans to come out from near the center of the Earth's core, build homes, etc would take more than a day.

What, if anything, will cause the architect to "declare" war again on Zion?

And why did the machines attack to destroy Zion the 5 previous times? What logical purpose did it serve? Did "feel" threatened or was it simply to create a better version of the Matrix? I am gonna have to watch M2 again.

Brian

The Architect is a program. He doesn't declare war on anyone. It is some machine "leader" that tries to kill the humans. A human thinking on his own is a threat to the existence of the machines, and so they try to kill the humans.

In the second question, you answered it yourself. I believe the previous five acted in a different manner than Neo did, and therefore it was merely a way to upgrade the version of the Matrix.

 

[Brandon4AU]

At the beginning of M1 Morpheus tells neo that he thinks it is 1999 but it is more like 2199. Well at the end when he makes the phone call the computer screen shows the date being 9/18(I think)/1999

To me that 19 month thing doesnt exactly work out.

 

[capainjoe]

I don't know if this is too simplistic, but what about at the end, before Smith copies himself from Neo and Smith calls Neo "Neo" instead of Mr. Anderson? Smith realizes this and is seems confused about what he just said. I've been trying to figure this part out. Any ideas?

Also, the very end with the Oracle and Architect...were they in the Matrix? And now that I think of it, they must have been. So how did the Oracle come back if Smith took her over and then was lying in the hole when Smith was defeated. I took that as she was dead. I've been also trying to figure out the meaning behind the sunrise that the little girl made for Neo. If this is the Matrix, it seems like the first time, out of all three movies, that there was actually sun shining in the Matrix. From what I remember, every scene in the Matrix seems dark.

The other insights you all have made are great and just really get your mind thinking. Awesome ideas from everyone.

Thanks

 

[zensius]

I know there's been some daylight in the Matrix. One scene early on when Neo is on the phone at his work and he's trying to escape. He steps out on the ledge and it's daylight. Now that I think about it...there's a number of scenes after Neo has been released from the Matrix that they're running to a phone to get out and it's daylight. The whole rescue scene of Fishburn with the helicopter is also daylight. So, penty of daylight in the Matrix.

 

[Webster3]

Ok, just saw the movie... here is my take:

We know that the Matrix had gone through several versions and that Zion had been destroyed as many times. The question is why was this time different?

Here is what I think. Smith was the reason. "The One" was an anomaly that was controlable according to the Architect. But this time, when Smith was created and multiplied, the machines did not know how to deal with him. Neo realized that he couldn't beat the machines because they had planned for his existance... but Smith was the wildcard. He realized that he was the only one who could stop Smith since he had become his anti-self. He figured that the only way to save Zion was to bargan with the machines... and make them agree to peace if he defeated Smith.

On another note, one of the most significant Christian symbols in the movie was that Neo had to become Smith to beat him... just has Christ had to become sin to defeat death.

I love deep movies... so does my theories on the plot make sense?

Ed

 

[jasonb]

very interesting idea webster..

 

[Stephen]

I got back from New York this morning and we caught a matinee this afternoon and saw it again. Like both the other Matrixes it was better the first time, the lack of suspense made it easier to catch little things. Its an excellent movie. I think its my favorite out of the 3...

Here's our take on it. Smith was created by the Oracle (the Oracle being the polar opposite of the Architect, he balances she unbalances) The Architect created the One (Neo) as he explains in the second movie. The Oracle created Smith and allowed Smith to take her over so that the Architect would have to increase the Neo's power to compensate (all he can do is balance the equation) that explains why Neo was so different from all the past Ones, Smith never existed before, or he did to a lesser extent.

We caught a lot of symbolism there at the end that we didnt catch the first time, and not all of it was Christian. First off, the light that they carry Neo's body into reminds us of some Hindu God (Brahma and Shiva the gods of creation and destruction) the little girl Sati is the wife of Shiva, the destroyer (thats what the name means). In fact now I'm not sure the overall theme is christian in origin at all, at least not totally. There's more to it here...

More questions, what is the significance of Saraph? The Merovingian calls him the "prodigal son" and Judis (we all know who Judis is). Interesting stuff there...

I agree with those that say its a very deep movie. Most of the people that dislike it are just irritated because they don't understand it, and they don't want to have to think. People fear or hate what they dont understand...

I think what you're saying makes a lot of sense Ed. The question is, is what I'm saying making sense? LOL

All the names are very important. I'm sitting here writing this as my son and his fiancee keep popping in info, makes it hard to write it all down lol.

Still lots of questions. Its all in there we just have to find it.

 

[Webster3]

You do make a lot of sense Stephen.... the part that I'm on the fence about is whether or not the One was created by the Architect or not. In his talk with Neo in Reloaded he says that it was the Oracle who "fixed" the Matrix so that 99.whatever% of the humans would accept it... but at the same time that created the anomaly that could eventually destroy the Matrix. So is the anomaly the One? In which case he did not create the One on purpose... but then later he does explain that the One can go to the Source and "restart" the process somehow, which makes it sound like he did create the One. In that scenario I guess that the anomaly is just all those who reject the Matrix (Zion). In that case... I wonder if the One is given so much power so that he can actually make it to the source.

Crap... they don't even give you enough to come up with solid theories do they!

Ed

 

[jasonb]

i do think oracle created smith when she fixed the system. smith is the one that the architect is talking about with the anomaly. that's why smith calls oracle "mom." what if the "one" is really smith? he is really the one that can take down the matrix. it is still unclear as to whether neo could have actually destroyed all the machines. maybe he could have simply destroyed the big head honcho spike machine like he did all those sentinels. maybe not. maybe he was given powers simply to combat the anomally.

there are so many ways that this movie can be interpreted. i would have been great though if you see neo in machine city walk over to this big metal box, open it up, flip the main breaker and shut everything off. that would have pissed some folks off!