OK, it's a lifter!

[ernzo]

Ok, I surrender. The knock is been deduced to be a collapsed lifter. It is worse when warm - much - but not always. I am thinking of going in and replacing 1 lifter, as I simply cannot afford to do more. I assume that pulling off the rocker cover will reveal the shot lifter?

Is this a one day deal, as frankly I have to find someone in Denver to do it, as I cannot due to health reasons (back).

I am trying one more "clean out" procedure to try to free it up, but I am not hopeful.

The thing is, 'sometimes' it gets pretty loud, going from a thud thud thud to more of a metallic thunk thunk thunk, and it seems to me this is bad.

Ideas? thanks in advance!

 

[ricco750]

Have you ever tried a can of EngineRestore? That stuff totally eliminated my lifter noise, and I only used one can of it about 18 months ago.

 

[Maniak]

To get to the lifters you pull the heads. They won't clear with the heads on (you can see the tops, but you cant' pull them out)..

You "might" be able to get lucky though. Usually the push rods and rocker arm cups wear.. When they wear they can cause lifter noise. If your lucky, a worn pushrod/rocker arm in combination with a weak lifter is causing your noise. If so, changing the pushrods and rocker arm assembly may bring it back to spec so the noise goes away..

The rocker arm assembly and pushrods is < $200 in parts from deltacams and you only need to pull the valve covers to get to them (and anything in the way of pulling the valve covers of course).

Replacing the lifters is a lot of labor (same cost if not more than getting the head gaskets changed).. plus each lifter is $40+ and then you need to figure which one of the 12 is actually bad.

~Mark

 

[ernzo]

Thanks. I have tried restore, no dice, sadly!

So the lifters are not free unless the head is off, but a visual inspection of the push rods and rocker arm may reveal something, correct?

By continuing to run, I assume that I *may* be looking at a valve that open only partially, which if it is an exist valve, may not be good, correct?

I have isolated the noise to the right(passenger) side. I guess I could just replace 3 rods and the Assembly and have done with it?
:

 

[Maniak]

Thanks. I have tried restore, no dice, sadly!

So the lifters are not free unless the head is off, but a visual inspection of the push rods and rocker arm may reveal something, correct?

Correct.

I have isolated the noise to the right(passenger) side. I guess I could just replace 3 rods and the Assembly and have done with it?
:

$200 gets you two rocker arm assemblies and 12 pushrods.. You could just throw them in and see if it fixes the issue.. I'd expect 2 hours labor to do the work.. I can do both sides in < 2 hours now..

~Mark

 

[ernzo]

Yes, 2 and 6 !

BTW, I know it is hard, but do you think I am on trak here? Noise mostly after explorer is WELL warmed up, most noticeable under load?

Well, OK, sounds doable, but I need to find someone near Denver to do it, wish I still could.

I will follow up and thanks!

 

[jd4242]

do you know if they sell just the rocker assemblies and i think there web site is down. i just did a complete overhaul and the rockers are the only thing i didn't replace and now the motor is taping loud in the same place,just like it was before i rebuilt it.ya ya i know should have replaced them in the first place!!!

 

[jd4242]

ok i have replace every item in this motor and its still tapping,I'm using 5.525 push rods and Ive seen people use the 5.550 push rods witch ones are the right size for the 410 cam???could this be my problem??

 

[Masterd]

I would still say get the noise on recording and let us hear it before we start saying its lifters or rockers.

 

[jd4242]

everything is brand new, only an hour on motor, im just wondering if i have the right size push rods but then again its only noisy on one side,maybe one head was machined more than the other, that's the only thing i can think of

 

[ernzo]

It's a Rocker Arm!

Not a Squid after all!

Yes, after months of pain and $, it is a rocker arm. The "thud-thud-thud-" which sounds like a;

Rod Knock?
Lifter?
Piston Slap?

..turns out to be a failed Ford Rocker Arm, passengers side.

A relatively easy fix. Notes: the noise got LOUDER when the oil was hot, was most noticeable when under load or testing with the car in D and the brake on, was a single "thud-thud-thud" as apposed to a double knock (like a rod), and was more noticeable with 5-30 wt. oil than with 15-40 wt. oil.

Again, a relatively easy fix. Hope this helps!!

To those who have replaced everything else, and still have a "weird knock", it most likely is not the rocker arm, unless you did not replace those. A visual inspection is all that is needed.

 

[jd4242]

yea I went to 5.550 pushrods and It got way quieter on both sides, huge difference but im going to 5.560 on the driver side from what I can tell the machine shop took more of the pass side head

 

[ernzo]

Rocker Arm details

The rocker arms looked a little scrubbed, but not pitted. The push rods seem fine. I replaced a rocker arm (the one I thought was the culprit) the thud-thud- persists.

Question. I think that the noise is essentially a lifter causing the lash to be too great, creating a thud when the rod hits the rocker arm, right?

So, I can replace rocker arms forever with no help...

Or I can replace the lifter.

??

:thumbdwn:

 

[Maniak]

So the rocker arms weren't worn? They didn't looked pitted etc when we pulled ours off but when I compared them to the new ones you could see how much wear they had which allowed more clearance between the rocker cup and push rod.. Also, the pushrods wear. As they wear they get shorter..

If you indeed have a weak lifter (doesn't pump up all the way) you will have to remove the heads to replace the lifters and 4.0 ohv lifters are very expensive compared to normal ford 302 type lifters.

~Mark

 

[ernzo]

Thanks Maniac!!

Yea, they looked somewhat pitted, but I saw pictures online of rockers that literally had a "indentation' from the valve stems! Mine were not like that.

My thinking is that I will go in and replace the rocker arms AND the pushrods on that one side to ensure that the clearance is as good as I can get it. Sounds good?

ps. I am broke and out of time as well, but aren't we all??

As far as removing the head(s), if this persists, I will look at that job I suppose!

 

[Maniak]

Yea, they looked somewhat pitted, but I saw pictures online of rockers that literally had a "indentation' from the valve stems! Mine were not like that.

Ours weren't worn much on the valve side either.. its the push rod side that showed most of the wear. the push rod would go in almost 1/8" more on the worn rockers..

~Mark

 

[jd4242]

some people say that you can take the lifter out with out removing the head.they said that you can remove the plastic funnel thing off the top and sometimes they will pull out.i have not tried this tho!! i would replace the pusrods all so they are cheap and could be worn.take a compression test and see if maybee one of your valves is maybee not closing all the way.im having the same problem but its the whole driver side makes noise and cant find why

 

[Maniak]

I've had the heads off a few times on our '92.. There is no way the lifters will come out.. The heads overlap them quite a bit... That is with 90tm heads and 93tm heads.. I don't know if its different on the newer style (95+ heads)

~Mark

 

[jd4242]

yea I don't believe it either I just got done rebuild my motor and it didn't look like it to me either

 

[ernzo]

clean out when rocker arm covers are off?

How about this idea. Again, I know that pulling the head is the best etc. but until then...

I pull the rocker arm covers to replace another rocker arm.

I 'inject' some heavy duty cleaner / solvent into the errant lifter via the push rod opening in an effort to (hopefully) clean out the ports so it will pump up.

I mean I fill 'er up and let it sit for a day, huh?

What can this hurt? It may not help, but I do not think it could hurt, as long as you don't put a gallon of kerosene in there....!

Anybody ever done this trick?

Yea?