Ok super Pissed Now!!!

[Aussie Explorer]

After getting the diagnoses from ford that my shift motor had contact failure (Quoted $880 for just the motor) I went out and sourced a second hand one from over east (For $250). You may remember my other post about this a few weeks ago

It finally arrived yesterday and I spent this morning swapping the old “Stuffed unit” with the one I got from the wrecker, including the sensors in the T/case.

Well after all that work it still will not engage 4WD Low!!!

4WD High works
4WD Low doesn’t work

I have no codes flashing or anything like that; the wiring all looks good but no action on the shift motor end of things

IMO I would need to be the unluckiest #### on the planet to get 2 Shift motors with the exact same problem don’t you think

Am going to go and borrow a electrical tester and check the wires for current, If Ok I will probably take it a Auto Electrician during the week and get him to look over it just to be sure, then if everything checks out I am going down to the dealership for a very unfriendly conversation with em.

What do you guys think, does it sound like the dealership tried to pull one over on me and charge me for a new shift motor when the problem was just something cheep and simple??

One thing> One of the sensors that that sits inside the T/Case that came with the shift motor had a crack across that Glue chit they encase the sensor in do you think that would case any issues, I didn’t think it would as the sensor it self looked fine.

Any ideas, thoughts or input will be appreciated.

Cheers.

 

[tnmk]

Might have been a damaged sensor. Just cause it looks good doesn't mean it is. Is the one fromthe original motor look good? Try swapping if you can. Does the motor you bought have any kind of warranty? Can you send it back for another one?

All I can say is I'd hate to be your shoes. (Course I kinda ws a few weeks ago, My PT Cruiser with only 20,000 miles on it needed a new transmission, Boat motor needed a rebuild a week b4 we were taking it on vacation and my wifes favorite uncle died all on the same day. Trans replaced - not under warranty, but Chrysler paid for the tranny, not the labor $462.00, boat motor rebuilt in time for vacation about $900.00 and that was doing most everything myself, baaaaaad week!)

Good luck, It is of course possible that the problem is elsewhere Have you tried replacinf the switch? Just a thought

 

[410Fortune]

okay can you put the t case in 4 low by hand?
You say 4 hi works and 2wd works correct?

the stator assembly on the shift motor is adjustable, if you are getting 4 hi and its just not able to turn enough to get to 4 low (assume you are putting the truck in N correct) it could just need adjusting

 

[Rick]

Have you already seen this page: http://www.explorerforum.com/Singleton/web/pages/tcase.html ?

Good luck with your problem.

 

[Aussie Explorer]

Yeah sorry guys should of said it’s a 97 with the TOD system, the T/Case only has 4H and 4L positions, 4H is engaged with a Electromagnet or something lik within the T/Case, the shift motor only changes it to 4L. The dash switch just has Auto/4WD Hi and 4WD Low options

And yes I can move the T/Case into 4Low with my hand.

I will try swapping the speed sensors around in the T/Case, but I don’t think they have anything to do with the Low range 4WD

Cheers.

 

[explrths]

I really hate to ask, but I have done this myself not thinking. When checking the operation from auot/4 hi/4 low, did you remenber to shift into nuetral? I have done this myself being in a hurry and really feeling stupid after I done cussed my truck up and down.

 

[Aussie Explorer]

Yeah mate I have put it in Neutral when going it 4WD Low with the brakes on, have also tried every other combination know to man to try and get it to shift but no dice the motor does not operate.

I just then changed over the 2 sensors in the T/case over and wired them into the plug and still nothing, reset the computer and all that stuff everything I try I get the same result Auto and 4WD HI work 4WD Low doesn’t engage.

The only thing I haven’t tried is testing the shift motor plug for power and that’s because I don’t have a multimeter.

I can shift the T/case into Low with my hand so not problems internally.

 

[410Fortune]

did you check the electric shift fuse?

 

[explrths]

Glad to hear it wasnt simple like putting it in nuetral... By the way, I was born in Exmouth, unfortunatly, I was only there for 2 yrs.

 

[Aussie Explorer]

did you check the electric shift fuse?> Where is this located, I have checked the fuse boxes and all the fuses are fine

I was born in Exmouth> Nice love it up that way, it about 1400k’s from Perth so it a bit of a drive but have been up that way 2 times in 3 years manly to Coral bay, which is just down from Exmouth if you remember, It’s all probably got a chit load bigger from what you would remember it as.

Cheers.

 

[gijoecam]

OK, time to dig deep here.

If 4 auto and 4high are working, we can be pretty confident that it's not a speed sensor or a shift plate issue.

I suspect it's a GEM issue. If the GEM was calling for a shift and it was failing to complete the shift due to either mechanical or electrical failure, it *should* know that the shift hasn't happened, store a trouble code, and start blinking the lights. If it *thought* that the shift was being completed, but it really wasn't, it would turn the 4low light on signaling that it was completed.

With that in mind, I don't think the GEM is <i>trying</i> to make the shift in the first place. I suspect, as I mentioned in the other thread when you first discovered the problem, that the problem lies in the GEM not getting the proper inputs from the sensors it needs. Those things would be the switch (looks for a call to low range), the DTRS (tells the GEM the trans is in neutral), or the brake input (tells the GEM your foot is on the brakes. It also looks for speed under 3mph from the speed sensors, but if one of those wasn't working, it would know it, and it's unlikely that both sensors would fail simultaneously.

Sooooooo.....

First thing: Unhook the motor. Stopped, in neutral, foot on the brake, and flip the switch. See if the motor even tries to move. Check for power at the yellow or orange wires at the motor. I doubt you will have anything.

You'll need to get into the dash and access the connectors on the GEM. Remove the trim piece around the stereo, remove the stereo, remove the AC duct, and you should see the GEM along the side of the opening. (For left hand drives, it's on the left side, but the right hand drives may be mirror images.... I'm not sure) It'll be a big black box, about 30mm thick with three black plugs in it. One of those plugs will be a R/LG wire that's fed from the brake pedal position switch. Check for power at that wire with the brake pedal pressed and the brake lights on.

Unplug the connection on the transmission. You need to check for continuity through the neutral position on the digital transmission range sensor. The R/W wire should ground to the BK wire with the transmission in neutral. This lets the GEM know that the transmission is in neutral. Check that same R/W wire at the GEM as well. Make sure that wire doesn't have an open between the GEM and the DTRS.

Did you ever check the resistances on the 4WD mode switch on the dash? They should be 3900 ohms, 1100 ohms, and 360 ohms for auto, high and low respectively.

Did you replace the transfer case shift relay? I doubt that's the problem, but you never know. If you can access it, you can check for ground signals through the GEM when you make the shift, but that'll be extremely tough to do without a break-out box for those connectors.

Are you sure it's not the 20A MAXI fuse in the power distribution block? Fuse # 6....

 

[410Fortune]

wow nice post GI, you HAVE to love Explorer forum, the knowledge on this site is AMAZING

 

[Aussie Explorer]

WOW I say.

I had already booked it into a Auto Electrician I know, funny thing is the first thing he side was the shift motors probably stuffed.

I told him I replaced it with a second hand one and I was told it was working when it was pulled off the car. So he said to drop it around on Thursday arvo (Tomorrow) and he will go over it, but if it’s anything too major it will need ford to be looked at.

That’s fine by me as Ford told me that my shift motor was busted, So if they have given me a incorrect diagnoses and tried to change me $900 for a new shift motor than they have some explaining to do.

I have tried your 1st suggestion and nothing.

I will hopefully have better diagnoses by tomorrow and will be able to take it from there.

I have removed the stereo and surround before ant tried to go looking but there were a lot of wires back there (Electrical stuff isn’t my strong point) and the fact that I don’t even have a multimeter I quit wile I was ahead.

Thanks for the help.

 

[gijoecam]

Aaah... without a multimeter, troubleshooting it would be quite difficult.

I'm still convinced it's the GEM not getting a proper input. And don't let them try and tell you it's the transfer case shift motor unless they can show you that the motor is getting power and ground and still not turning.

Let us know what they find!

-Joe

 

[Aussie Explorer]

Gijoecam>

Just got it back from my friendly auto Electrician, he basically said> the electrical connection going to the shift motor all have power. Except for the wires that control Low range engagement for the shift motor and all the wiring on the outside of the car is fine, there is a control box in the dash somewhere but not sure of the location.

So basically the motor is Fine and the problem is somewhere else, I.E what you described.

He couldn’t dig to deep, as there are no wiring diagrams available to him, so I might show him you little right up and see if he can check all of those connections too.

The best part, “Sorry mate I couldn’t fix it, no charge” > Now that is how you run a business, no bullshit straight out and honest about it, I got a Wiring fault with my airbag too and I am going to get this guy too look at it as well, Would rather give him the money than a Dealership.



Quote

“One of those plugs will be a R/LG wire that's fed from the brake pedal position switch. Check for power at that wire with the brake pedal pressed and the brake lights on.

Unplug the connection on the transmission. You need to check for continuity through the neutral position on the digital transmission range sensor. The R/W wire should ground to the BK wire with the transmission in neutral. This lets the GEM know that the transmission is in neutral. Check that same R/W wire at the GEM as well. Make sure that wire doesn't have an open between the GEM and the DTRS.

Did you ever check the resistances on the 4WD mode switch on the dash? They should be 3900 ohms, 1100 ohms, and 360 ohms for auto, high and low respectively”

Just some Questions
R/LG> does this mean Red/ Light Green Wire?
R/W> Does this mean Red/ White wire?
Unplug the connection on the transmission> Where is this?
digital transmission range sensor> Where is this? What does it look like?
BK> what does this stand for?

Sorry if some of the answers to the Questions were a bit obvious, Just what to get it right.

Cheers mate.







.

 

[Aussie Explorer]

Arrr, Just spent a infuriating 20 Minutes on the phone with Ford regarding my 4WD problems.

After talking with the service advisor the problem went from it’s defiantly the shift motor too it could be the relays or the Gem Module both are complicated and expensive.

They then went on to say that if I had just took it into them in the first place they could have diagnosed it straight away. What a F**king ******** that’s what I took it to them for them for in the fist place and I was told it’s the shift motor.


I tell you guys I have just about had enough of this chit, I Love the car but trying to get stuff fixed on it is just too F**king hard.

This is what I am thinking now
Pay them the $1200 or whatever the f**k it will cost to get the 4WD system working agene.
Short out my airbag light so the f**king this stopes flashing at me
Then sell the Bloody thing!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

F**K I HATE DEALERSHIPS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[gijoecam]

Are you done ranting now? Good. Let's get back to the basics now.

It sounds like the problem was a mis-diagnosis by Ford. Had you paid the $1200 for them to replace it, you would have had some leverage as it would be their fault it was mis-diagnosed and their repair did not fix the problem. Had they taken the time, diagnosing the problem should take all of about 15 minutes. When they connect it to the NGS test stand, they can see all the GEM inputs and outputs, and can diagnose it in a matter of minutes. Apparently they failed to do that, and I suspect that if you took it back in to them, that's what they will do.

Or, you can start troubleshooting it yourself by checking the things I mentioned above. It still won't tell you if the GEM itself is bad, but will tell you if it's recieving the proper inputs and sending the correct outputs.

Or, you can continue complaining about it and doing nothing. The choice is yours.

-Joe

 

[Aussie Explorer]

LOL> Yeah I am done now.

Just frustrated.

I Located the GEM I think, and that thing has a lot of wires coming out of it.
The dealership told me it was behind the glove Box when I was on the Phone to them, funny because it was actually exactly where you said it would be!!!, it was a mirror image.

Questions
R/LG> does this mean Red/ Light Green Wire?
R/W> Does this mean Red/ White wire?
Unplug the connection on the transmission> Where is this?
digital transmission range sensor> Where is this? What does it look like?
BK> what does this stand for?

I will try and get my hands on a multimeter tomorrow and will have a play around with it.

If I fail to find the problem, I guess it will be back to the dealership for them to have another look at it.

Got a Price on a new GEM to $1050 Bloody hell!!!!!

Cheers, Joe.

 

[gijoecam]

Hee-hee... I'd offer to lend a hand, but the airline tickets would cost more than the repair.

If you're in my neighborhood and want to swing by, the door's open.

R/LG is red with a light green stripe, R/W is red with a white stripe, and BK is black. I always just list the initials because I'll occasionally screw them up and have someone looking for a light blue wire instead of a light brown wire, or I'll call a GR gray insted of green (gray would be GY).... I've just gotten in the habit of calling out what's in the book so as not to accidentally confuse anyone.

-Joe

 

[Aussie Explorer]

Thanks mate, I will hopefully get around to it tomorrow if not then Sunday morning.

If I find nothing I will just hand it over to Ford agene.