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one a4ld too many, 302 conversion questions

TheRookie

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well a4ld number 6 just went down the drain. I am done with that piece of junk trans. So a buddy of mine has a 85 fsb that i can have the entire drive line and all related parts from. My questions arise with fitment. I posted asking for info on the bronco driveline on a fsb forrum and didnt get what i was after. truck is a 302 with a 4speed auto trans and manual shift tcase. one guy on the fsb site doesnt think the case will fit between my frame rails. will it? anyone know? I know aa makes an adaptor to put my t case on but its shot also. I have a 3 inch bl so that may help some with everything else. i really dont have the cash to do this right now but am so sick of the freaking a4ld and wanted a v8 anyway. any problems i should expect? any parts i need that i wouldnt think of?
 



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jrgaylor

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I am not going tobe much help here but what I know of this Tc is that it hangs down a lot reducing ground clearance and I am pretty sure it has a slip yoke on it, but would probably do you till you can get the adapter.
 






Brian_B

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I just swapped a C5 in my old ranger and didn't go the whole V8 conversion. It was fast and cheap. I have no clue about swapping the other stuff in.
 






410Fortune

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the FSB bronco EFI 5.0L is not the best choice, but it has been done often.
The rest of that driverain sounds golden, but it is large (T case).
You can make it fit inthe explorer however.
Do you have a body lift?
You will have the same issues as any Mustang 5.0L speed density or EEC-IV MAS 5.0L conversion, so common, it has been done so many times, there are so many ways to do it, from chop and make it run to complete rebuild/balance/blueprint/ show quality conversion.

You will need to either buy mounts or drill holes to locate the engine/trans.
You will have to use the dual sump oil pan to clear your TTB
You will have to modify trans x member
" use the oil filter re-location
" figure out the exhaust
driveshaft modifications for sure
much more.....

wiring is not too difficult your truck being a 91 and the 5.0L being a fairly simple stand alone PCM and engine harness. (pull out 4.0L stuff, retain your power dist, etc wire in 5.0L. however IMO going from a 91 MAS to a 85 5.0L is working backwards.

This conversion has been done 1000 times, it is just like pulling a Crown Vic or Mustang 5.0L, F-150 or in this case FSB and dropping it in.
You will spend alot more $$$ then you think, but alot of it depends on how much you are willing to cut/chop, etc. The FSB 5.0L front dress will be very long and require a radiator re-location, etc.


So its really up to how much of the work do you plan to do?
How much time and $$$ do you have/can you get?

The entire donor is a HUGE bonus.

IMO if I was going to go through the trouble and spend the $$$ I would start with a better 5.0L and drivetrain combo

Do you want auto or 5 speed?
 






TheRookie

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definately going auto. The donor truck is costing me 300 bucks, there is no way i can get an offer that good with a different 302. I have a 3 inch body lift so that should help. Also I dont have any ttb left. SaS on coils. Does this mena i dont need a dual sump pan? solving the exhaust is easy. I fabbed exhausts for a long time. Can even make my own headers but doubt i would. I dont mind the idea of modifying cross members or anything. no big deal.

edit, forgot to say thanks. I apreciate the info from someone that has done similar swaps.
 






410Fortune

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No you will still need the dual sump pan, it is the engine cradle used on TTB trucks I was refering to and requires the clearance.

Find out what trans and T case are in that sucker
Cooling is going to be an issues, I mean making room for it, because that version of the 5.0L is LONG. Converting to the late model Explorer accessories and brackets would REALLY help.
 






TheRookie

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ok thanks, converting to second gen 5.0 accesories and brackets you mean? that may be an option if it helps significantly. I dont really care if i have to cut out the rad support and have to fab something new or if electric fans are needed. but if it is worth it i will look into that. perahaps find one at a yard
 






410Fortune

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well by the time you try to clear the full size truck pullies and the vavle cover with your heater box you wont have a radiator support or grill to fit the rad in there, electric fans and chopping will help, but that front dress is LONG.

there are other pullies and accessories you can use that are Ford, and shorter.
We should look aver at Rangerpowersports.com and see what some of those guys have done for cooling. Alot of them started life as crown vic and Mustang 5.0L's....
 






ox13

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Here is some tips on doing the 5.0 swap now I haev done the 5.0 swap in rangers and Bronco II and the X is not much different from them.

first off the truck 5.0 EFI intake is too tall you will need to run a car EFI intake on this to clear the hood.

exhaust simple use a early bronco exhoust manifolds and y-pipe they will clear the frame rails and the steering on a 1st gen X.

motor mounts two ways to go here one keep the 4.0 mounts and make a plate that bolts to the 5.0 and to the 4.0 mounts this will sit the 5.0 a little lower in the engine compartment, or you can use the late mustang mounts and flip them ( left on to the right side of the motor and the right to the left side of the motor) than re-drill your engine cross member for the 5.0 mounts

FSB tranny and t-case can be used but it is very tight for both of them the body lift helps with the tranny but the case will most likely hit the frame rails.

Cooling you will need to have a 4 core rad the 84 B-2 rad's work great and you can just trim your core suport to fit it in and move it forward, twin electric fans work best, but I have used a mechanical fan on these swaps and they work the best but are a very tight fit.

if you have A/c plain on loosing it you will have to cut the heater/ ac box to fit the 5.0 in the engine compartment.

oil pan use the late model mustang duel sump pan and move the drain plug back on it so changing the oil is easier, if you don't move the plug back it can be a real PIA to change the oil. you will need to use a filter relocation kit for the oil fiter which let's put the filter were you want it.

Fuel system you can use the 4.0 fuel pump on the 5.0 efi motors all you will need to do is modify your fuel lines to the 5.0 fuel lines

Hopes this helps you out some.
 






TheRookie

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AWESOME! thanks a ton.
 






410Fortune

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OX, Excellent info.

Air conditioning can be retained, even with the notched heater box.

A 4.0L HD radiator is said to cool the 5.0L very well, why do you recommend a 4 core unit?
Trimming the rad support to fit the radiator is not somethig I would want to do, however cutting the middle out, and making a tray below and above to put back what you removed and to house the radiator is a good approach. I chose to get a custom Ron Davis radiator for under $380, my 5.0L sits at 200-205, even towing, much cleaner than cutting. Radiator hoses can be a challenge too, I used thestock ex 5.0L upper and a $16 universal unit for the lower.
Dont skimp on the oil filter relocation kit, use a billet adapter on the block. IMO the Canton unit is the best. Also use swivels on the hoses and use good hoses, your engine depends on this.
I chose a spot for the filter that is also cooled by the fan as well as protected from the tire/road debris.

With a body lift even the dual plenum F-150 style intake will fit, will it not?
If you can find some headers, now is the time to install them.

All of this is covered in my conversion thread :p
 






TheRookie

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I am likely going to make my own headers. ITs a lot of work but I have done several for customers and like the results.

thanks a ton guys for all the helpfull info
 






ox13

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410, as for the A/C I have found that sometimes it is just easier to loose it whendoing this swap most of the time when there is no body lift done. as for the 4-core rad I can get them cheap if I use the Bronco II units and they work great even in the area that I live with lots of hills and stop and go traffic, as for the core support yes you do have to replace what you trim out with some kind of braces or support.

as for the 5.0 truck efi intake I know that they will not fit in a B-2 with a 3" body lift bt my motor did sit a little high as for them fitting into the 1st Gen X with a body lift it may but I really don't think so and besides there are better intakes out there than the truck intake I like the crown vic intakes since the put the throttle body pointed to the drivers side much easier to do the filter and throttle cable.

as for headers yes they are nice but the costom ones are not cheap and if you are doning this on a tight budget they early bronco manifolds can be picked up cheaper than custom headers but since you can make you own headers you are one step ahead of most of us.
 






410Fortune

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Also my oil is a breeze to change? What is the issue with the drain plug?

I sat the engine as low as I could with my TTB, lift brackets and dual sump pan. The oil plugs are easy to access.

I used L&L engine mounts.
 






TheRookie

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FYI, the AC isnt staying. I plan on doing something in the way of OBA close to the time of the swap. Something I have wanted forever.
 






410Fortune

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ON board air? me too!
I have my ac compressor in place, and planned to add AC to my BII (first time in 11 years I would have AC) but I think I am going to chop the top now and well my compressor will become OBA. after seeing Tom's Suzuki run the air tools at moab to fix Brother of Jefe's rig, its been on the list and my ARB compressor isnt up to the task.
 






TheRookie

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Yeah on board air. Has been on my list forever. There is just something about having air tools everywhere that I love. Plus airing up after the trails is way easier.
 






ox13

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410Fortune said:
Also my oil is a breeze to change? What is the issue with the drain plug?

I sat the engine as low as I could with my TTB, lift brackets and dual sump pan. The oil plugs are easy to access.

I used L&L engine mounts.

Maybe it is the pan's that I use ( 1990 mustang pan) the drain plug on the first swap was about an 1" or so forward of the rear of the cross member so getting it out was hard to do and had a mess when draining the oil so I moved the drain plug back as far as I could and kept it on the bottom of the pan.
 






410Fortune

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Here is my dual sump 5.0L pan I picked up from ford with the tube, you can see even with my Duff brackets and L&L mounts (set engine opretty low and far back) I was able to do slight grinding to the face of the lift bracket to give me socket clearance.

Its close, but it works well.

2893duffnotch.jpg
 



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ox13

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410 mine sat a little more forward than yours so it my have been and error in my part when I set the motor in with the motor mounts. So I guess you don't have to move the drain plug but it would not hurt to move it back just to keep the mess factor down when changing the oil.
 






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