Open letter to LMS

[vteckiller2000]

LMS,

I have tried to contact your tuner directly after failing to get any real answers to my questions about my and the collective Ecoboosted Explorer community's issues with your tuning.

Continuing to tell us that "winter gas" is the reason your tunes pull throttle angle and that the OBD2 data stream is inaccurate, BS and borderline unethical. You and Ford validate your tunes based on this OBD information and spouting off that it is wrong so that people don't question your product quality is just awful. Moreover, having tuned multiple vehicles myself over the years for myself and others, it is complete BS to require pulling boost and timing for cold weather. This is a classic sign of poor tuning and I genuinely worry about my engine after seeing some of the actual data from my vehicle.

Make it right and give us real answers to our issues and stop playing this selfish game.

 

[broken strut]

Are you talking about engine hesitation? Could you please explain what you're accusing them of? I've been running a 91 performance tune for a month now with no problems and no OBD II trouble codes. No engine hesitation or any other problems.

 

[broken strut]

LMS,

seeing some of the actual data from my vehicle.

Make it right and give us real answers to our issues and stop playing this selfish game.

Can you put some data up? Would love to see it. What type of data? What did you use to pull the data? I'd like to purchase one for myself

 

[vteckiller2000]

Are you talking about engine hesitation? Could you please explain what you're accusing them of? I've been running a 91 performance tune for a month now with no problems and no OBD II trouble codes. No engine hesitation or any other problems.

Can you put some data up? Would love to see it. What type of data? What did you use to pull the data? I'd like to purchase one for myself

Yes. It is not engine hesitation (at least in my case), it is the ECM pulling throttle back to ~50% to avoid damage to the engine. In my case the fuel pressure drops out, then the timing and throttle angle gets pulled back.

I have seen up to 30 degrees of timing being pulled under boost as knock reduction and as low as 5-600 psi of fuel rail pressure under full boost. The rail pressure should be in the mid to high 2000's at that point.


I was told it is "winter gas causing your issues" and "that data from the OBD system is inaccurate, the only was you can see fuel rail pressure is with a mechanical gauge".

BS.


It is a DI engine and the ECM uses the rail pressure TO RUN THE CAR somewhat analogous to how a port injection system uses injector pulse width.

If it wasn't trustworthy, why the hell is it there and why do state and federal governments test emissions based on the data it produces? Moreover, how can an OEM do their factory tune calibration based on bad data?

BS and a copout to the real issues. If the car cannot maintain fuel flow to run the on the calibration you provide, then your calibration is bad and needs to be redone, don't blame it on everything else except the tune.


brokenstrut, I use an OBD logger which provides data to my tablet and the Torque Pro app.

 

[13Sport]

I have seen up to 30 degrees of timing being pulled under boost as knock reduction

Doesn't this statement lead credence to fuel related issues? Have you tried adding toluene (octane boost) to your tank and see if some of the issues resolve? You can't condemn their explanation w/out some sort of proof that their explanation is invalid.

I live in Cali, have been using the 91 High boost, and 91 performance tunes and don't see any issues of dropped throttle or timing (we do not have winter blend gas in Cali). All of the symptoms you describe sound like engine management safety measures, all would be related to increased knock from bad gas.

my and the collective Ecoboosted Explorer community's issues with your tuning.

What other members are experiencing this issue? You are the first I've heard of.

 

[BAD430BENZ]

I was thinking it was a bad gas issue also . I would imagine this would be a fairly common issue and would be discussed more often if it was the tune itself .

 

[vteckiller2000]

94 octane, 11% ethanol content. My turbo miata and my big turbo Volvo on 26 psi and 21 degrees timing run it fine with no knock retard so I highly doubt it is bad gas...

Also, bad gas doesn't inhibit fuel flow or pressure. The pressure TANKS and causes the computer to cut the throttle.


Turbo cars knock when fuel goes lean, most also pull timing as a failsafe if something like fuel pressure goes below a set parameter.

 

[vteckiller2000]

Doesn't this statement lead credence to fuel related issues? Have you tried adding toluene (octane boost) to your tank and see if some of the issues resolve? You can't condemn their explanation w/out some sort of proof that their explanation is invalid.

I live in Cali, have been using the 91 High boost, and 91 performance tunes and don't see any issues of dropped throttle or timing (we do not have winter blend gas in Cali). All of the symptoms you describe sound like engine management safety measures, all would be related to increased knock from bad gas.


What other members are experiencing this issue? You are the first I've heard of.

TouchOfEvil also has this issue and had been lightly vocal about it, plus there are many in the Lund camp with a similar issue.


I have standalone EMS on both my other turbo cars with complete tuning control. I would know if I had bad gas since I run the same fuel in all 3 cars.

 

[13Sport]

TouchOfEvil also has this issue and had been lightly vocal about it, plus there are many in the Lund camp with a similar issue.

Post from TouchOfEvil

He reports the v2 tune corrected his problems in the 87 tune, he never reported back on the higher octane tunes. Are you running the v2 tunes? I've ran the 91 perf v2, 91 high boost perf v2, and the 93 high boost v2 (using toluene because we don't have 93 octane out here). I have not had one issue that you describe in either data logging or actual throttle response.

 

[vteckiller2000]

Post from TouchOfEvil

He reports the v2 tune corrected his problems in the 87 tune, he never reported back on the higher octane tunes. Are you running the v2 tunes? I've ran the 91 perf v2, 91 high boost perf v2, and the 93 high boost v2 (using toluene because we don't have 93 octane out here). I have not had one issue that you describe in either data logging or actual throttle response.

He is still having issues per a PM.

I have been running the v2 tunes since they were available. It is probably beyond version 2 now since I have a 3 bar MAP.

You don't have issues because you are in LA. It is cold here and the cold causes/exacerbates the problem. Above 50-60*F ambient and it mystically fades away and runs fine.

 

[jays05]

What other members are experiencing this issue? You are the first I've heard of.

Mine does the same thing. I don't think bad gas or winter gas is the culprit. I've run straight 100oct unleaded, and a mix of 100oct unleaded and 89oct ethanol-free gas, with no difference.

 

[13Sport]

Will definitely keep my eyes on this thread then.. Surprised to not have heard a more verbal concern before. I have only had my tuner a few weeks, and I would likely have waited if I would have been aware this was a problem affecting multiple people.

 

[13Sport]

You don't have issues because you are in LA. It is cold here and the cold causes/exacerbates the problem. Above 50-60*F ambient and it mystically fades away and runs fine.

50 - 60 degrees is freezing! I'm definitely from LA lol

 

[broken strut]

It's currently 25 below here in New Brunswick. I haven't had any problems at all. No stumble or hesitation at all. My X has worked perfectly. In a range of temps of +10 Celsius to -35 Celsius.

 

[vteckiller2000]

It's currently 25 below here in New Brunswick. I haven't had any problems at all. No stumble or hesitation at all. My X has worked perfectly. In a range of temps of +10 Celsius to -35 Celsius.

Get an OBD reader that can show you real time data and watch the throttle angle and timing advance while going WOT. I bet it cuts throttle after shifting gears. You are also on the 91 octane tune, which may have been softened down enough to avoid the issues.

 

[vteckiller2000]

I have a short log showing the loss in fuel pressure at WOT I can email if anyone wants to see it.

 

[Ajar]

Running the 93 hi boost here since January.... Yes I'm in FL but we've seen plenty of 40s here this year and I've not had this problem.

That said I'm not saying it doesn't exist; it's odd that the majority of us have no issues but a few people are plagued with this problem. I wonder if they share an engine strategy? There must be some common factor, I bet once that is discovered you'll have a good shot of it being fixed.

GL!!

Ajar

 

[andy@livernois]

These aftermarket apps and OBD-II adapters are not accuarate. They aren't grabbing the proper data, and many times doing equations to give you information. The example with this is A/F ratio. It's impossible to accurately calculate A/F, yet these apps display it. The ECM doesn't spit out A/F, so it doesn conversions to display this, and those conversions are impossible to get accurate without knowing the exact chemical composition of the fuel. Ethanol content alone is not enough. We had to invest our own money into specially designed hardware and software to data log these. OEM's aren't using an app with a low cost adapter to log their data, and neither should someone with an EcoBoost.

These trucks make more power and use more fuel when the weather is cold. being the fuel composition also changes this aggravates the problem. This is why we have a specific cold weather tune for those of us unfortunate enough to live in the colder climates. There is more to fuel than just octane and ethanol content.

I have never had someone call us unethical for speaking nothing but 100% truth. I am sorry you disagree, but that doesn't make what I am saying incorrect.

We have had customers drive halfway across the country because of these apps people use because they thought all kinds of issues were happening. Do you know what happened when they got here and we ran it and logged it with proper methods? It was exactly how it was supposed to be and completely different than what the "app" reported.

You can't apply traditional wisdom on tuning to these engines and computers. a DI engine does not function in the same manner that a PFI engine does. This is why we do things no one else can do.

This is why we have the fastest boost only taurus, flex, explorer, mxs, mkt, and f150. This is also why we are the only people on the planet that tune the 2.0 fusion, escape, and now the 1.5 and 1.6 ecoboost as well. We are a solid 3 years ahead of the rest of the industry on these cars, and have almost 6 years of knowledge just around the EcoBoost V6.

 

[broken strut]

Andy. When it warms up can we get the non winter tune? Is there a difference. I just want to say I love the way my Explorer is running on your tune. Super fun to drive. I wish we had 93 Octane here so I could run the high boost tune.

 

[13Sport]

Andy. When it warms up can we get the non winter tune? Is there a difference. I just want to say I love the way my Explorer is running on your tune. Super fun to drive. I wish we had 93 Octane here so I could run the high boost tune.

There is a 91 high boost tune, not sure based on your post if you are aware of that.

There are formulas available all over the internet for mixing tuolene (basically paint thinner) with your gas to boost your octane. You could also use the octane boosters on the market, but finding the correct ratio is almost impossible, so more is better in the case of those.

We also don't have 93 here, Tuolene is fairly inexpensive, so occasionally I will mix it in the tank and flash the 93 tune.