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Opinions on alignment specs:

drake437

Well-Known Member
Joined
October 22, 2005
Messages
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City, State
wooster, ohio
Year, Model & Trim Level
2001 XLT 4x4
Alignment specs..good, ok, or bad?

2001 P255/70/16 4x4 62K

Front..left

-1.0 (-1.0-0 range) Camber
3.6 (3.2- 5.2 range) Caster
.05 (-.03-.09 range Toe

Front…right

-.4 Camber
4.2 Caster
-.04 Toe

Cross camber -.06
Cross caster -.06
Total toe .01

Thanks....Drake
 



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I'm curious why you ask-
there is a bit of caster difference from side to side-which makes me think maybe it doesn't feel as stable as it should. It's probably pulling to the right also--
I would bet if they pulled out the rear camber adjuster on the passenger side upper control arm, they would decrease that side's caster a bit, while putting a bit less camber also,bringing that number close in line.

Of course, I'm just bored and might not even know what I am talking about.

also the math is incorrect
the cross camber and cross caster are actually .6
 






Is it OK? If 'in spec' is what defines OK to you, then yes. However, I think any alignment tech *should* be able to get it a little better than that... The caster should be a little closer, and the camber could be evened-up a bit too IMHO... Especially if you have the 2-piece upper control arm on the passenger side...

Just my opinion though...

-Joe
 






Ooops .6.....thanks. Why do I ask? Had a free check with new tires, did not have them do anything because they could not adjust camber because of no shim kit, so I did not want to have to pay for two. I got 62k (not on wear bars) on the original Goodyear RT/S's...with little rotations. So I'm just seeing if the numbers are ok for tire wear on the new tires, with 6k rotations. Plus I don't trust shops, another shop told me I needed U/L control arms, and ball joints both sides.....$1000. The tire shop never mentioned a bad suspension.

JT....it really does not pull.

Drake
 






Actuallu you want a little more caster on the right to compensate for road crown, camber yeah the left woul be better closer to 0 even -.4 or 5, I hate decimal toe readings, but it kinda looks like your steeringwheel may be off a little, usually toe should be equal or VERY close to it! camber kit would be necesary, and ball joints are a possiblity, jack the truck up under the lower control arm, try moving tires top to bottom if there is play they are half right, you need upper control arms and or lower ball joints, lower arms stay in place! All in all not a bad alignment for 60K+ and never adjusted, by the way yes I know what I am talking about, Hunter and Specialty Products certified!

Alignment specs..good, ok, or bad?

2001 P255/70/16 4x4 62K

Front..left

-1.0 (-1.0-0 range) Camber
3.6 (3.2- 5.2 range) Caster
.05 (-.03-.09 range Toe

Front…right

-.4 Camber
4.2 Caster
-.04 Toe

Cross camber -.06
Cross caster -.06
Total toe .01

Thanks....Drake
 






Actuallu you want a little more caster on the right to compensate for road crown, ....snip....

OK, explain something to me... I'm not trying to jump on you personally or anything, but I've seen this statement reflected in other posts around here before...

Why in God's green earth would you intentionally make a vehicle pull to one side to 'compensate for road crown???' You have no idea what type of roads the owner drives on, so how do you know how much extra caster is right for them? I've had two alignment techs tell me this before... My response? No, screw that!! Align it straight. When the vehicle is traveling straight on a flat level surface, I want it to track straight. When the road crowns to the right, I fully expect the vehicle to pull to the right, and when the road crowns to the left, I fully expect the vehicle to pull to the left.

If you intentionally set it up to pull to the left a little bit so that it tracks straight on a road that's crowned to the left, what happens when the vehicle moves into the left lane of the freeway? (incidentally, that's where I spend most of my time to and from work every day) Now, combine the left crown with the alingment set to pull left, and it pulls twice as much to the left, correct?? Thanks, but I don't want my vehicle to change lanes on its own.

So, I ask again, why would anyone intentionally misalign the vehicle to compensate for some unknown operating conditions the vehicle may or may not ever experience? The factory sets them the same, and aren't the factory specs the numbers an alignment shop should use??
 






Not to mention --
you'd want it pulling LEFT to fight road crown--

this has more caster on the RIGHT

I love it when I hear the " for road crown" excuse not to get the wrench out again--
 






Is there an “average” ball joint/UCA life span? This is my fourth Explorer and never had to mess with them in the past. Jon…you are right is probably is not as stable as it could be…wind tends to make it wonder a bit, the steering wheel is of a little of center, but depends on the “road crown”. I am just trying figure out whom to trust, since I have two different opinions on the joints. It’s not a daily driver (but does trips) and I don’t want to sink unnecessary funds into it. I guess since it is “close” to specs it all right to drive with the new tires? Do you guy’s rotate every 6K? Or less? Thanks
 






Not to mention --
you'd want it pulling LEFT to fight road crown--

this has more caster on the RIGHT

I love it when I hear the " for road crown" excuse not to get the wrench out again--

I have had to "get the wrench out" more times than you could probably count, have your vehicle aligned the way you think it should be who cares more people give mechanics a bad rep because they THINK they now what they are talking about, when they don't!! Anything under a .5 degree differnce and you would never notice the difference in either lane, I have my ranger set at -.4 degrees cross caster which is less on the left, and I challenge anyone to feel any pull no matter which lane or what speed you pick! SO your "excuse" get real! Today for example I lost my a$$ trying to get a F-150 with 35x 14.50's on 22's to not drift or pull by getting the wrench out WAY too many times but hey I understand some shops are not honest! Some customers aren't either treat your mechanic with respect and he will return the favor!

Gijoecam, no jump felt, all manufacturers that I have seen include a small margin into their specs, the closer to a zero degree difference is better however it also depends on the area, what works here may or may not work there, I wouldn't call it an intentional Mis-align but if you look in any spec book it allows a + .5 degree cross caster, and again I say any GOOD alignment guy knows that some vehicles require a little more or a little less fudging one way or another.
DRAKE if it drifts a little and you can handle it then watch your tires for wear, if they wear good check you BJ's once in a while to make sure they are not dangerously loose, leave it alone until you notice a problem, If it ain't broke dont' fix it but be safe not cheap!!

I admit there are crooked mechanics out there, I know a few, but there are also honest ones! Just like any other profession, find a good mechanic stick with him, even if the other guy is $10 cheaper, if your are a good customer, that has a good honest mechanic, you will never lose that $10 you will make it up 100 times over by being treated fair, and honestly!!
 






I have had to "get the wrench out" more times than you could probably count, have your vehicle aligned the way you think it should be who cares more people give mechanics a bad rep because they THINK they now what they are talking about, when they don't!! Anything under a .5 degree differnce and you would never notice the difference in either lane, I have my ranger set at -.4 degrees cross caster which is less on the left, and I challenge anyone to feel any pull no matter which lane or what speed you pick! SO your "excuse" get real! Today for example I lost my a$$ trying to get a F-150 with 35x 14.50's on 22's to not drift or pull by getting the wrench out WAY too many times but hey I understand some shops are not honest! Some customers aren't either treat your mechanic with respect and he will return the favor!

Gijoecam, no jump felt, all manufacturers that I have seen include a small margin into their specs, the closer to a zero degree difference is better however it also depends on the area, what works here may or may not work there, I wouldn't call it an intentional Mis-align but if you look in any spec book it allows a + .5 degree cross caster, and again I say any GOOD alignment guy knows that some vehicles require a little more or a little less fudging one way or another.
DRAKE if it drifts a little and you can handle it then watch your tires for wear, if they wear good check you BJ's once in a while to make sure they are not dangerously loose, leave it alone until you notice a problem, If it ain't broke dont' fix it but be safe not cheap!!

I admit there are crooked mechanics out there, I know a few, but there are also honest ones! Just like any other profession, find a good mechanic stick with him, even if the other guy is $10 cheaper, if your are a good customer, that has a good honest mechanic, you will never lose that $10 you will make it up 100 times over by being treated fair, and honestly!!

I'm sorry you had a bad day , but it shows you were doing your job right.

I still stand on my ground that a lot of shops don't. I've watched them.
 






The ball joints should be good or bad, not anything in between. If they can find any looseness in one, change it and get another alignment. It sounds like you had two opinions, hopefully you trust the one you went with.

I feel you Joe, I had my 98 aligned Tuesday. I asked for it to drive straight on flat ground, let me do the steering. Mine has almost equal caster, but the best left camber he could get was about -.75 degrees. That is fine for me, I told him to leave it like that because I have had good tire wear for 79k miles. With less camber on the right side it does steer a hair differently. I think that he should have put a little more camber in the right side.

BTW, toe is not more or less on one side or the other. Toe in is one figure, with the wheels pointed straight. That above is toe out .01, and toe in is generally preferred. Having more toe out helps handling some, but the front is more likely to wander that way. That may be part of what I have now, but I've only driven my truck about 25 miles since it was done. Regards,
 






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