P0172, P0174, P0300, P0301-3, P0316 after summer vacation

[hahatherapy]

I hope someone can help you figure this out because I am gonna be in the same boat if I pull my engine only to find nothing wrong inside. Right now I have a misfire on my whole passenger side, cylinders 1, 2, and 3.

 

[hahatherapy]

Have you looked in the oil pan? Is there nothing in there either?

 

[codysmith105]

@donalds it does, that tells me I have an OEM guide cassette.

It seems to be out of time, this is TDC using the timing tool to set the crank.

How in the name of hell did I lose time on this?

I'm going to have to guess I jumped a tooth on the sprocket.

 

[974X4BLACKSPORT]

If it was running fine when you left, and then ran bad when you got back, and someone else had access to the vehicle....?

 

[codysmith105]

Landlord did, but I had it full of stuff. I'm fairly certain it didn't move an inch over that time. Plus the battery was dead which I assume was because of it sitting for 2-3 months.

 

[Turdle]

Turn the crank one more revolution clockwise and recheck timing. ( cams turn half speed of crank)

 

[codysmith105]

Can do, but if they do spin exactly half the travel then shouldn't it still be in alignment, just with the slots flipped up or down?

Anyway, 360 deg / 25 teeth on the sprocket = 14.4 deg. My photo is far from perfectly planar, but I measured 14 degrees of offset. I think it's pretty obvious that it jumped a tooth. I'm just amazed that was possible with the guide intact.

I'm at graduate school now, will report back when I can.

 

[Littleant]

Cody check that hydraulic/spring tensioner that screws into block/head. After 2-3 months with maybe no tension it could have jumped time when first started. If installing new ones drop them in a can of oil and work them back and forth until you cannot move them.

 

[codysmith105]

Thanks, I have new ones for both sides and I'm aware of the need to pre-tension them in a cup of oil.

Dad thinks I should go ahead and replace all the timing components with the Cloydes kit on account of us already having the engine out. My concern is that it's been stated here that no one really makes better lasting parts over the OEM ones which appear to be fine.

I don't really know how to weigh the 120,000 miles worm OEM parts vs the new off brand kit but I'm leaning towards replacing everything timing related and calling it a day.

 

[Mr. Alligator]

In my opinion, you are better off with your original equipment at this time. Keep your oil changed. Fear the off brand parts.


Good luck.

 

[974X4BLACKSPORT]

That engine is amazing clean on the inside! At least from what is shown in the photos.

 

[donalds]

It's off a little because the chain's are stretched

And a complete cloys kit is very close if not the same quality as oem imo

 

[codysmith105]

That engine is amazing clean on the inside! At least from what is shown in the photos.

I know right? That's as it was when I cracked open the valve cover. I'll try to get a better picture of the camshaft just cause.

It's off a little because the chain's are stretched

Just to clarify, you're saying that it's out of time because the chains are stretched and not because of a mythical jumped tooth?

And a complete cloys kit is very close if not the same quality as oem imo

I'm inclined to almost agree. The quality seems to be there for sure.

 

[donalds]

I think the chains stretch over time in your case I think the tensioner rattling on startup bc it sat for three months chains already being stretched just enough room to jump with the violent slapping
I don't think this happens very often without breaking the guides

With no tension them chains really slap around
Is the other cam in time ??
With the engine not running the tensioner s are fully pressed in that's why they have a tool ...dummy tensioner...
This will throw it off

 

[codysmith105]

So, I f*cked up. But first, a mystery is solved...

Yeah the timing guide had snapped at the bottom where I couldn't see it.

As for the ford-up, so for whatever reason when I was sourcing parts for this job, I bought the torque-to-yield bolts for both sides of the jackshaft, but I did not end up buying replacement bolts for the sprockets that go on the camshaft, which I'm going to guess are also TTY because I now have 1-1.5 inches of one embedded into my passenger side camshaft.

Which I totally and completely have no idea nor the tools to deal with. Guess I'm in the market for a thread removal kit.

Just to be clear here I was using a crappy Harbor Freight torque wrench, set to 63 ft-lbs just like the Cloyes video said to, the wrench was checked afterwards, it was set correctly and did seem to function as intended (I tested it on the engine stand bolts). The bolt in question seems to have just fatigued. I'm not even sure if it is a TTY bolt.

I bought all of these:

Bolt-right timing chain upper: F77Z6U000BA
Bolt-right timing chain lower: 4L2Z6U001AA
Bolt-rear sprocket jackshaft: W703167S430
Bolt-jackshaft chain guide mounting: W500100S300
Bolt- left cassette assembly lower mounting: W500100S300
Bolt-left cassette assembly upper mounting: 4L2Z6U000AA

In other news, the engine is technically in time now lol. Just don't try to spin the crank. Sigh....

 

[codysmith105]

Disaster averted

 

[donalds]

How did you get it out

Disaster averted

View attachment 163561

 

[codysmith105]

I was going to attempt to drill it with one of my drillmills and then tap it with an 8-32 tap and attempt to unthread it, but I lucked out big time. As I was attempting to center punch the thing I saw and get the bit started (it broke off with a big chunk that wanted to walk the bit off to the side), anyway as I was trying to get the bit started the bit slightly grabbed and the whole thread rotated on me.

Knowing that it could rotate, I carefully used the bit to pilot it out without ever really engaging the bolt. I basically just walked it out until I could grab it and then it just came out. I guess all the stress was relieved when it broke and all I had to overcome was the mangled part at the front, which I guess the center punch shocked out of place or something.

Anyway lesson learned, all those gearing bolts are TTY, don't even dream of reusing them. I probably narrowly averted a much worse disaster had this thing not broke on me.

 

[Tom Thomsen]

I was going to attempt to drill it with one of my drillmills and then tap it with an 8-32 tap and attempt to unthread it, but I lucked out big time. As I was attempting to center punch the thing I saw and get the bit started (it broke off with a big chunk that wanted to walk the bit off to the side), anyway as I was trying to get the bit started the bit slightly grabbed and the whole thread rotated on me.

Knowing that it could rotate, I carefully used the bit to pilot it out without ever really engaging the bolt. I basically just walked it out until I could grab it and then it just came out. I guess all the stress was relieved when it broke and all I had to overcome was the mangled part at the front, which I guess the center punch shocked out of place or something.

Anyway lesson learned, all those gearing bolts are TTY, don't even dream of reusing them. I probably narrowly averted a much worse disaster had this thing not broke on me.

Cody,
How is the timing chain swap going? I'll be starting mine soon! tom.thomsen1@gmail.com

 

[donalds]

Bump

I want to hear and see pics too