PCM replacement and PATS

[J_C]

I do believe that Midas opted for the "clone" route in the two keys they did for me over the past 18 months instead of doing a "master" key. So I'm relieved to hear that you're giving me that hopeful option instead of replacing the PCM. When the SUV was in the shop earlier in this week, I was told that the original key was dead. The mechanic showed me that the light would not blink after being in the "ON" position for the "original" key. But it would blink fast for the "clones".

I don't know what to make of that.

If the light doesn't blink fast for the original key, but does fast for the clone, that means it rejected the clone, not that the original is necessarily dead. If you were to insert a key blank cut to the right shape but with no transponder module in it at all, that should also, cause the pats light to blink rapidly if you try to start the vehicle with that key, as would any perfectly viable key with the pats chip module in it, that simply isn't retained in the PCM memory as the right key code. No blinking activity at all is an abnormal state unless there is no pats problem at all and something else is keeping the vehicle from starting. IDK if there was any incompetence or deception going on but something does not seem right.

There isn't a lot that can go wrong with the keys to make them dead, if you have the passive style that does not need a battery for keyless start. I mean if you bashed it with a hammer, that could kill one, but otherwise the keys are the most robust part of the pats system.

When the vehicle does not start, there should be some data evidence, either a code stored or at least an observation of what subsystem isn't working, for example whether it cranks and whether the injectors are firing and in later versions of pats, if the fuel pump is pumping (IIRC). However that code is ford-specific and needs a code scanner capable of ford codes, not just a generic OBD2 code reader.

I think Midas, at least that tech at that Midas, was just not the right place to let them do anything related to this.

Always have two unique keys programmed in, then you can DIY program more in based on the method in the owner's manual with no special methods/tools, and additional normal keys instead of clone keys, are less expensive too, and then if you have 3 normal keys programmed in and happen to lose one, then you still have 2 normal keys programmed in, to allow you to use the easy owner manual method of programming in another less expensive normal key.

 

[allmyEXes]

@Brian360 What engine do you have?

 

[SixBucks]

Probably a little to late...https://www.explorerforum.com/forums/threads/pats-key-sucsess-thanks-forscan.432028/ mentions that the ELM327 device is from China and is "hit or miss". OBDLink SX is suggested to be a better choice.

Good information, never too late.

 

[Brian360]

@Brian360 What engine do you have?

I have the automatic 6cyl 4.0 SOHC

 

[Brian360]

I don't know what to make of that.

If the light doesn't blink fast for the original key, but does fast for the clone, that means it rejected the clone, not that the original is necessarily dead. If you were to insert a key blank cut to the right shape but with no transponder module in it at all, that should also, cause the pats light to blink rapidly if you try to start the vehicle with that key, as would any perfectly viable key with the pats chip module in it, that simply isn't retained in the PCM memory as the right key code. No blinking activity at all is an abnormal state unless there is no pats problem at all and something else is keeping the vehicle from starting. IDK if there was any incompetence or deception going on but something does not seem right.

There isn't a lot that can go wrong with the keys to make them dead, if you have the passive style that does not need a battery for keyless start. I mean if you bashed it with a hammer, that could kill one, but otherwise the keys are the most robust part of the pats system.

When the vehicle does not start, there should be some data evidence, either a code stored or at least an observation of what subsystem isn't working, for example whether it cranks and whether the injectors are firing and in later versions of pats, if the fuel pump is pumping (IIRC). However that code is ford-specific and needs a code scanner capable of ford codes, not just a generic OBD2 code reader.

I think Midas, at least that tech at that Midas, was just not the right place to let them do anything related to this.

Always have two unique keys programmed in, then you can DIY program more in based on the method in the owner's manual with no special methods/tools, and additional normal keys instead of clone keys, are less expensive too, and then if you have 3 normal keys programmed in and happen to lose one, then you still have 2 normal keys programmed in, to allow you to use the easy owner manual method of programming in another less expensive normal key.

His scanner showed me some B codes, which is something I've never seen. Have you ever used the ForScan tool to make your own keys?? I bought a new immobilizer module from Ford, do you think that will cure the starting issues, or are you leaning more to just the keys need to be reprogrammed??

I REALLY appreciate the knowledge you've shared with me!!!!!

 

[J_C]

Knowing what the B codes were might help. A new immobilizer would only help if that is the problem. If the keys still need programmed in, that won't change needing to do it. You can probably find a step by step description of using Forscan to program in keys. You'll need a windows host device and the extended license version of Forscan, which can be had as a free month trial the last I knew.

I would try to program keys before anything else, unless you have more evidence that it is the immobilizer module which I imagine isn't cheap if you bought it new from Ford... particularly since you'll likely need to program the keys anyway.

Keep in mind that once you have the setup with the windows host and forscan, you can also pull those B codes. The extended license trial is not needed for basic functionality, only to do certain programming functions and... I don't remember what else, not to pull codes.

 

[Brian360]

His scanner showed me some B codes, which is something I've never seen. Have you ever used the ForScan tool to make your own keys??

I REALLY appreciate the knowledge you've shared with me!!!!!

Knowing what the B codes were might help. A new immobilizer would only help if that is the problem. If the keys still need programmed in, that won't change needing to do it. You can probably find a step by step description of using Forscan to program in keys. You'll need a windows host device and the extended license version of Forscan, which can be had as a free month trial the last I knew.

I would try to program keys before anything else, unless you have more evidence that it is the immobilizer module which I imagine isn't cheap if you bought it new from Ford... particularly since you'll likely need to program the keys anyway.

Keep in mind that once you have the setup with the windows host and forscan, you can also pull those B codes. The extended license trial is not needed for basic functionality, only to do certain programming functions and... I don't remember what else, not to pull codes.

The immobilizer module was only $40 including shipping. B1213 and B1601 were the codes. A comment left on here https://www.justanswer.com/ford/a4i8v-no-start-keys-getting-b1601-scan-tool.html suggests that the PCM will also need to be reprogrammed "Ford OASIS report on your Explorer and the TSB for the B1601. The TSB is dated 2004. The dealership will have to reprogram the PCM since you need a special scan tool to do this also." The tech at Midas also mentioned this as well.

The B1213 code mentions "Amount of programmed keys is below minimum" B1601 "PATS received incorrect (this part washed out by sunlight) transponder"

Downloaded the ForScan program utility as it was mentioned before I was aware that the program could be used fully for at least a limited time.

 

[J_C]

We may be using different terms. I don't usually see people calling that halo transceiver an immobilizer module but that seems to be the same part.

I could be wrong but was under the impression that the B1213 is just an alert, not a show stopper that would prevent the vehicle from starting, and that it's the B1601 which indicates that it recognizes there's a Ford key with a (working) chip but the code is not one it has programmed in, so that would need to be done next. I was also under the impression that you could rule out the halo receiver on the ignition switch as faulty if it is detecting any key transponder chip is present, but I am not 100% certain of that, that there isn't some fringe case where the transceiver/immobilizer might still have a problem.