Pickle needs more inches...

ok... so Pickle is currently sitting on a 3" BL, Warrior 153s, 4dr rear leaf spring packs and a TT with 33" tires...

Now.. As far as I can tell, I have 2 options open to me SAS/SOA or a Superlift 4" suspenion lift...

My argument for the Superlift kit is - it's bolt on and is relatively easy to do..
My argument agaist it - $2500... still have IFS and an open front diff

My argument for SAS/SOA - I can go a lot higher than the superlift 4" suspension lift and will also make my track wider
My argument against - I can't weld, I don't want manual hubs, I want working ABS and speedo... and I don't know what the costs are.

So... here we are.. I am going to be learning how to weld this summer (hopefully)...

Any suggestions - arguments for and against would be great.. also info on what would be the best set ups to use.. after doing some reading on the forum I'm thinking I don't want leaf springs up front....


Si

 

[obie]

Well, if you're looking to do the Superlift, I would suggest doing it soon. All indications seem to be that they're discontinuing it. Though, they should be finishing a production run (of how many, I have no idea) soon. I ordered mine from 4WP on December 15th and kept getting told they were waiting on parts to finish making the kit. Then two weeks ago or so I found one place that had one kit in stock and ordered it from there. So I'm not sure if Superlift even bothered to finish the production run.

Is it $2500 with shipping to Canada, or to buy it in Canada?

 

[blueka]

it's $2500 delivered to me... which is a lot of money...


Si

 

[colintrax]

I wouldn't plan on learning to weld in 1 summer, atleast not good enough to weld up suspension. Unless you're taking the summer off from work and do a lot of practicing, or only learn 1 type. But it's more fun learning stick, mig, and tig. Go ahead and learn Oxy to, it's got it's place.

Having said that, I vote SAS/SOA. Superlift=torsion bars hanging down. And you're still IFS with leafs hanging under the axle.

 

[obie]

With the Superlift though, you could do a coilover conversion to replace those crappy torsion bars. And IFS itself isn't really bad for offroading, it just takes more money to get it be as good as a heavy duty Dana or such. Stronger CV axles, uniballs, long travel arms, and such. Heck, the Humvees use IFS/IRS but then again, those systems are built from the ground up to be military tough, not soccer mom tough. And the fact that there are no selectable lockers for our front diffs.

 

[blueka]

I'm not sure about coilover fronts... I've already got the V8 in there and was thinking about a winch up front... more weight...


Si

 

[colintrax]

Coil overs can handle the weight. But you could also do coil overs with SAS, so that's not really a benefit.
It takes a TON of cash to make IFS "as good" but they are 2 different systems. IFS is smooth, great for desert racers. It can also allow for more center ground clearance. SA offers more articulation, and generally more strength.

 

[blueka]

I'm also thinking more width... a nicer, wider footprint would be beneficial I think


Si

 

[bovine]

i say go with that SAS/SOA since it will be stronger so you wont break as much stuff more options in suspension you can go bigger easier and it look cooler

 

[colintrax]

How are you planning on more width out back? Ford 9"?
What are the laws up there? Can your tires stick out the fenders? Or are you going to put those silly flares on?

What kinda offroading do you do btw? IFS might be better if you aint playing on rocks. I'd really consider leaving it to if you have little kids, or a bad back.

Regardless, I still say SOA/SAS

 

[obie]

V8 plus a winch should be fine with 800 pound springs, that's what gmanpaint runs. I'll be using 750lb springs.

Should ask though, what kind of offroading are you planning to do? That makes a big difference. For general trails, speed runs, and daily comfort, the IFS is great at. For bogging, rockcrawling, and the general hardcore wheeling, a beefed up straight axle will be much better. But straight axles still need strong shafts, strong u-joints, new steering setup, new mounting and suspension setup, and lots of fab work.

 

[blueka]

I live in pretty much the flattest part of the country.. haha.. there are some hills and lots of mud though..

I have a 98 F150, I was thinking of using the back axle off that... my thinking being that I can plug into it for my speedo to work... I also want the ABS to work like it does now, without any lights on the dashboard staying lit..

Si

 

[colintrax]

But what kinda wheeling is it? Flat terrain doesn't mean much.
What axle is in the f-150? I'ma make a wild guess and say you can't just plug into it.

ABS is for chumps, and expect it to not work with the SAS and new rear axle. You could make it work, but sometimes locking up the tires is fun. Well, locking up the rear. I'd rather make something to control the brake proportion than fixing ABS.

Obie is right on

 

[blueka]

I think it's an 8.8" I can certainly check when the snow goes..

As for the wheeling, I do normal trails, I guess I'm wanting to do this more for the wow factor than anything else.. I want to be able to get enough lift under Pickle to fit much larger tires and have the wheels further away from the frame to minimise/prevent rubbing as much as possible.

So, saying I decide to go SAS/SOA what would be the best components to use up front?

Si

 

[corkey]

for a good sas you're almost going to spend as much as a Superlift anyways,,
look at the costs for the parts
axle,springs shocks,steering box,mounts,linkages,trac bar,driveshaft,different wheels and tires and fender flares
all that will add up to quite a bit too,
granted the wheels and tires is for each any way

i have as you know the coilover on top of Superlift ifs , and for what you're going to be running in out on the Flats or in the mud,,
it would be enough with a 35x12.5 tire on a 15x10 inch rim,, i did it, and it worked for me pretty good in mud,, and running faster logging road trails,,

 

[vroomzoomboom]

here's my 2 cents si
how often to you drive pickle on paved roads, vs. off road. driving a sas truck as a daily, i cant see being fun (mind you the only sas trucks i have been in was captain morgan and skunk).
what are the lift laws there? you dont know if officer farva pulls you over, pickle will be trailer to trail only from that day forth. the one nice thing is with a superlift, if you need to drop it back down, you can. sas, fogetaboutit.
how high do you want to go? superlift is only a 4 inch kit, where sas is endless
how much time do you want to spend building it? superlift = weekend, sas = ?
cost, superlift = $2500, sas could also be that much after you factor axles, brakes, lines, drive shafts, steering box, springs, mounts, and what ever else you need.
me, i would do the superlift, but i know other prob disagree

i see pete kinda beat me to most of my answer, lol

 

[corkey]

almost forgot,, doing gearing in the diffs both ends is not cheap either,,

and as for a locker,, if you had a back locker like an Aussie on the stuff you would run in where you are, just the back would probably be enough,,

 

[Anime]

The Superlift might be the way to go if you can get a used kit or find it cheap, I wouldn't pay $2500 for it.

Even better would be custom suspension components, custom beefed up and widened lower and maybe even upper arms (or maybe just stock width to use stock axles up front), with coil spring conversion. Throw in an electric/air locker up front and the open diff isn't an issue.

Solid axles are great for hard wheeling like rock crawling or if you just beat on your rig or prefer old school, but IFS is great for everything else, including a rig that sees daily driver duty or on-road use.

35's are nice for the trail, but they do put more stress on hubs and the drivetrain, so that's another reason solid axles up front can be a good idea with larger tires, they can handle those stresses. Same for the Ford 8.8" rear. It's a strong axle, but it's not designed as heavy duty to handle 35's.

Personally I think stockish parts with 33's and TTB/IFS up front is a great setup for Explorers that see on-road use and can still hit the trail.

35's, axle swaps, stuff like that is when you get into dedicated trail rig territory. That's fine if that's your thing, but trail rigs don't always make the best vehicles for driving around town or on road at all. Having a project and a toy to use is fun, but it can be a real drag when you realize you've spent thousands of dollars, and while you now have a more capable trail rig, you don't really take advantage of it all that much, and instead, you just get even worse gas mileage, slower acceleration, and worse handling.

 

[blueka]

What I was planning on doing to keep the costs down, was like I did before, buy complete damaged vehicles from insurance salvage, keep what I want, sell off what I don't.. that usually covers the costs of any extras etc...

Si

 

[rickybobby]

Si, if you are really considering a SAS, you have a ton of research to do. There are so many different options and setups to consider. You can do a budget SAS with leaf springs with minimal fab work, and use many pre-fabbed parts. It also may do you some good to talk with zukmam about the steering box plate they made for the JP mobile. Sky manufacturing makes a leaf spring bracket for an s-10 that can be used with explorers too. If you want to go with a coil spring setup it will most likely be easiest and cheaper to get a 1st gen and do a complete frame swap, as James Duff makes pre-fabbed parts that will make a D44 bolt it. At that point you may be able to find knuckles that are setup for ABS. The latter option is at least as expensive as the superlift kit, but will ride better than a leaf spring option, and as i already said it can be done as a bolt together setup. Bronco2guy went that route with the same v-8 sport setup you have. It wouldnt hurt to pick his brain if you want to consider it.