Pirelli Scorpion Zero Tires - "PNCS"

[smoknz28]

Not sure how many of you vehicle owners with Pirelli Scorpion Zero tires realize that you may just have a technology built into your tires called Pirelli Noise Cancelling System (PNCS).....but I'd like to tell you about my situation and what I'm advocating Ford do.

Pirelli PNCS

Recently I learned that the dealership was unable to balance my tires due to the PNCS.

Service called and updated me that they've ripped all the PNCS pads out of my tires, which means....even the ones that didn't have an issue to begin with. They did this work using SSM-48623. I'll attach a screen shot for what this SSM states below. By the way, can someone please advise on what SSM stands for?

Now, the issue I take with this is...they've now taken out the technology for which my Pirelli Tire was built for. This padding is there to basically deaden the road noise sound that these large diameter, low profile tires will have at high speeds.

In talking with the Service Manager I asked why didn't they go through the Pirelli Tires warranty for this seeing how my tires are well under warranty (16k miles with 7/32nds tread depth). He said they don't go through the tire manufacturers for warranty issues. The warranty is between the customer and Ford. So in essence he said, Ford can modify the vehicle per their protocols. I again stated, but you've taken a technology away from my tires that isn't there any longer, which is covered under the Pirelli Tires warranty. Meaning, you could have gotten my tires replaced if the tires indeed were defective due to the foam coming loose. Now, I'm stuck with tires that don't have this technology for which they were designed. I got no where with him on this... I at least should have been called to advise the procedure they expect to take on my tires so I could have understood ahead of time that they're taking technology out of my tires and I would have called Pirelli directly for recommendations.

I then called up Pirelli Tires support, and they were great to talk to. The rep told me that she personally has dealt with Ford and many other manufacturers in dealing with warranty claims. Seems like a very easy process in which Ford may use what's called the Ford Around The Wheel Program. She said that I should not allow the dealership to remove these pads, but instead ask them to call Pirelli direct and they can work with them to file a claim. She said by removing the pads they've taken that tech away and I may see another issue come to light....where on hot days the glue may seep out and onto the exterior of the rims. Plus, I will be dealing with more road noise at higher speeds.

I'm putting this all out there for you fellow owners that have the Pirelli "PNCS" technology built into your tires. If you find that your service shop can't balance your tires....it may just be because the PNCS pads have come loose or off. In that case, request that your service shop goes through Pirelli to file a claim so you can get credit for your tire(s) to be replaced.

I scheduled a meeting with the dealership's General Manager this morning to discuss this issue. I will be requesting that they use the Pirelli's warranty claim process to get my tires replaced. I know I'll be coming out of pocket for some of this, which I'm hoping will be minimal seeing how the shop intentionally ripped out padding from my other tires that didn't' have an issue. So they were the ones who modified the tire(s) when there wasn't anything wrong with them. I believe it truly was only 1 tire that had the issue. I'm also going to be discussing with him their SSM-48623, as I believe this should not be done any longer...especially for warrantied tires. They should rescind the SSM....which I will be a strong advocate for.

PNCS - Tires with foam inside | Pirelli

Discover the details of PNCS technology, the Pirelli Noise Cancelling System™ to reduce tire noise inside the vehicle!

www.pirelli.com

 

[peterk9]

Welcome to the Forum.
SSM = Special Service Message

Peter

 

[smoknz28]

UPDATE - After a long talk with the GM, and his confusion as well as to why Ford issued an SSM to do this to tires that are under a factory warranty. He said he wanted to speak with his Service Manager to discuss all of what we talked about to see if we could come to a good resolution.

A few hours later I got a call from the Service Manager who left a voice message explaining that they’ve ordered 4 new tires for my vehicle and are expecting them to arrive on Monday to replace my tires that they ripped the PNCS out of. Was also stated in the voice message that they plan to take this up with Ford. I’m assuming they mean to have discussions with the Engineering and Logistics team as to why this SSM was published in the manner it was. I certainly hope they have that conversation. I called Ford customer service yesterday to figure out who I need to address my concerns to and with getting the run around in various departments with folks with strong accents, which I had challenges with holding conversations with….I tossed in the towel for the day.

Well, my persistence has paid off, but ultimately I want Ford to rescind the SSM for all future and current owners of these tires.

 

[peterk9]

The SSM was posted in our TSB/Recall thread on March 13, 2020. List of Useful Threads - 6th Generation Ex and Aviator Recalls, TSB, FSA and SSM
Personally, I don't think I'd want that stuff in my tires regardless of their intended function. Just more chances for problems down the road.

21" Pirelli Tires

Ok, so already thinking ahead of how ridiculous the cost will be on replacing the 4 tires lol. So I decided to go to tirerack.com and see what the replacement cost is. With that, I found 2 different Pirelli All season Tires, 1 has their PNCS (Pirelli Noise Cancelling System) and 1 does not...

www.explorerforum.com

Peter

 

[smoknz28]

The SSM was posted in our TSB/Recall thread on March 13, 2020. List of Useful Threads - 6th Generation Ex and Aviator Recalls, TSB, FSA and SSM
Personally, I don't think I'd want that stuff in my tires regardless of their intended function. Just more chances for problems down the road.

Peter

Yes Sir....that's how I found it. The dealership gave me the SSM number over the phone and then I did an Internet search for it...that's when the thread showed up from this site with it. After reading about it and others....I knew I had to become a member right away with this forum.

 

[Pedro504]

The Pirelli customer rep I spoke with today [headquarters in Georgia 800-747-3554] indicated the oem 275/45 R21 tires on my 2021 Explorer Platinum [build date Sept 9, 2021] are not PNCS (noise cancelling).
My tires do not have the PNCS label.
He went on to say if the PNCS label is not molded into the tire it's not noise cancelling.
This is what the label looks like if you want to check your tires.

 

[DoraAExplorer]

That is weird, we have Pirelli's Zero's on our 21 XLT sport pack, have no idea if it has the foam. I have discussed switching to Michelin tires anyway once these are done. The Michelin not only is a superior tire but it keeps its traction even when the tread on the tire wears down. I can already feel at 16k miles on the Pirelli's a tendency to want to hydroplane in wet or soaked covered roads.

 

[SteveAZ]

It would be interesting to read the Workshop Manual section on this issue. I didn't read the SSM the same way...
If the foam is loose, remove the foam and re-mount the tire.
To me that means removing the loose foam, not all the foam, and certainly not the foam from all the tires.

 

[VCFP153]

Reminds me of a Slovak friend I once had. He was a sound engineer. And a Czech one, too, and a Czech one, too.

 

[Dale5403]

It would be interesting to read the Workshop Manual section on this issue. I didn't read the SSM the same way...
If the foam is loose, remove the foam and re-mount the tire.
To me that means removing the loose foam, not all the foam, and certainly not the foam from all the tires.

I wonder if would be worth time to see if a Pirrelli tire dealer about Warranty. I seen where some Tesla customers did that.

 

[peterk9]

It would be interesting to read the Workshop Manual section on this issue. I didn't read the SSM the same way...
If the foam is loose, remove the foam and re-mount the tire.
To me that means removing the loose foam, not all the foam, and certainly not the foam from all the tires.

I'm sure that would throw the balance off.

Peter

 

[bcarlson]

I’m a little confused by the tire warranty question. In the “old days” I recall the Ford dealer telling me that Ford did not warranty the tires, and any issues would have to go back through the tire manufacturer. Ford could make the claim for you, but the tire manufacturer would determine the proper resolution. They made a point of giving you a separate tire warranty booklet for the brand of tire you had, and referring to that for information on what was covered.

 

[peterk9]

I’m a little confused by the tire warranty question. In the “old days” I recall the Ford dealer telling me that Ford did not warranty the tires, and any issues would have to go back through the tire manufacturer. Ford could make the claim for you, but the tire manufacturer would determine the proper resolution. They made a point of giving you a separate tire warranty booklet for the brand of tire you had, and referring to that for information on what was covered.

All the individual tire warranties are explained in the Warranty Guide that comes with the vehicle.

Peter

 

[breddy]

I’m a little confused by the tire warranty question. In the “old days” I recall the Ford dealer telling me that Ford did not warranty the tires, and any issues would have to go back through the tire manufacturer. Ford could make the claim for you, but the tire manufacturer would determine the proper resolution. They made a point of giving you a separate tire warranty booklet for the brand of tire you had, and referring to that for information on what was covered.

We've had this issue once where the local tire joint discovered the PNCS issue after a normal balance didn't work, and now a second time after doing the research and finding this thread (and dozens of others across car makes). Paid OOP for a balance the first time and now the local dealer is charging us $99 for 4 wheel balance even with knowledge of the SSM.

Have you all had to pay to have this resolved? According to Ford's site for my VIN, the Tire warranty is a year and we're outside that. Am I wrong to think this should be taken care of? The dealer said if they have an SSM that outlines the process, they'll take no further action like escalating to Pirelli.

 

[peterk9]

We've had this issue once where the local tire joint discovered the PNCS issue after a normal balance didn't work, and now a second time after doing the research and finding this thread (and dozens of others across car makes). Paid OOP for a balance the first time and now the local dealer is charging us $99 for 4 wheel balance even with knowledge of the SSM.

Have you all had to pay to have this resolved? According to Ford's site for my VIN, the Tire warranty is a year and we're outside that. Am I wrong to think this should be taken care of? The dealer said if they have an SSM that outlines the process, they'll take no further action like escalating to Pirelli.

Check the Tire Warranty Pamphlet for Pirelli's tire warranty. Since you are outside of Pirelli's 1 year warranty, the tire, if replacement is warranted will be pro-rated by a Pirelli dealership. Tire wear will be taken into account. It goes into more detail.
The issue I would have if it was my tire would be that it isn't a good idea to replace just one tire on an AWD vehicle because of the wear on the other tires would, to some degree affect the diameter of the tires.

https://www.ford.com/support/vehicle/explorer/2020/owner-manuals/

Peter

 

[breddy]

Check the Tire Warranty Pamphlet for Pirelli's tire warranty. Since you are outside of Pirelli's 1 year warranty, the tire, if replacement is warranted will be pro-rated by a Pirelli dealership. Tire wear will be taken into account. It goes into more detail.
The issue I would have if it was my tire would be that it isn't a good idea to replace just one tire on an AWD vehicle because of the wear on the other tires would, to some degree affect the diameter of the tires.

https://www.ford.com/support/vehicle/explorer/2020/owner-manuals/

Peter

Yeah there aren't any tires being replaced so it's slightly different. The issue is the foam lets go and must be removed in order for the tire to balance. It is by most accounts a lousy design by Pirelli and a marginally useful noise eliminator at best. I suppose the lesson to learn is just never use PNCS again. A co-worker had this same issue on his Tesla and after replacing the PNCS tires with non PNCS ones he said he couldn't tell any difference in noise. On a quiet as hell Tesla.

 

[GeoTracker]

My 2020 ST has the 21" Pirelli PNCS tires and developed a bad vibration at around 70MPH. Dealer advised they confirmed the problem and that the vibration analyzer failed all four tires. A Road Force balance solved the issue. Dealer also inspected the foam in all tires and no loose foam was found. The ST actually rides better now than when I drove it home new! The dealer was much more expensive than the average price I have seen for Road Force balance, so you may want to shop around. Dealer price in Tampa was $199.95 plus $25.99 shop supplies. The ST has only 24,000 miles and at least I did not have to replace any or all of the tires. Not sure I will get the same tires as a replacement. Never had to worry about poorly balanced tires before.

 

[GeoTracker]

My 2020 ST has the 21" Pirelli PNCS tires and developed a bad vibration at around 70MPH. Dealer advised they confirmed the problem and that the vibration analyzer failed all four tires. A Road Force balance solved the issue. Dealer also inspected the foam in all tires and no loose foam was found. The ST actually rides better now than when I drove it home new! The dealer was much more expensive than the average price I have seen for Road Force balance, so you may want to shop around. Dealer price in Tampa was $199.95 plus $25.99 shop supplies. The ST has only 24,000 miles and at least I did not have to replace any or all of the tires. Not sure I will get the same tires as a replacement. Never had to worry about poorly balanced tires before.

At 25,000 miles tires developed "serious" vibrations this time at 47MPH and feels like it is in the front, last time it felt like the back. This was a real safety concern for handling. Not taking them in for another $200 Road Force balance, replaced all four tires today with Yokohama Geolandar X-CV - 275/45R21 110W. No problem yet, up to 55MPH but still need a road trip to see how it does up to 80MPH. I think this hot Florida weather is melting the glue holding the foam in place. The OEM tires were: Pirelli Scorpion Zero A/S 275/45R21/XL 110W PNCS. I did not contact Pirelli as I don't want any of these PNCS tires on my vehicles. PNCS will be on the sidewall, indicating the use of foam inside of the tire.

 

[breddy]

At 25,000 miles tires developed "serious" vibrations this time at 47MPH and feels like it is in the front, last time it felt like the back. This was a real safety concern for handling. Not taking them in for another $200 Road Force balance, replaced all four tires today with Yokohama Geolandar X-CV - 275/45R21 110W. No problem yet, up to 55MPH but still need a road trip to see how it does up to 80MPH. I think this hot Florida weather is melting the glue holding the foam in place. The OEM tires were: Pirelli Scorpion Zero A/S 275/45R21/XL 110W PNCS. I did not contact Pirelli as I don't want any of these PNCS tires on my vehicles. PNCS will be on the sidewall, indicating the use of foam inside of the tire.

How are the Geolandars treating you after a few months? We're in FL as well and hate the PNCS. It's time to replace all 4 ... looking for input.

 

[GeoTracker]

How are the Geolandars treating you after a few months? We're in FL as well and hate the PNCS. It's time to replace all 4 ... looking for input.

They are great, no problems! Got them at Sam's Club but the 21" tires seem to be in limited supply.