Popping/grinding in steering when turning

[Maxud]

I wonder if these would work any better (if they fit of course)?

6R3Z-3932-CA

I know removing the inner tie rod would be required to slip them on but it'd be worth it if it was a long term solution.

I removed the broken pieces from my passenger side today. I don't get any rubbing so far at full lock but it definitely turns way sharper than before. I'm afraid it's going to break a CV joint.

Good find, but of course there are questions. What material is this made of and what are its dimensions?
Will it stay put, either in recess of the rack or at the edge of the steering arm?
There is no way to affix it, just relying on pressure fit. Remember passenger side is a cork screw design,
with very little area to grab.

Most intriguing is that you see no tire rubbing. What size tires do you have?

 

[rmkilc]

Good find, but of course there are questions. What material is this made of and what are its dimensions?
Will it stay put, either in recess of the rack or at the edge of the steering arm?
There is no way to affix it, just relying on pressure fit. Remember passenger side is a cork screw design,
with very little area to grab.

Most intriguing is that you see no tire rubbing. What size tires do you have?

I have the stock tire size of 255/50R20 but it is a Sport so the wheels are 20x9 with a 44mm offset. I'm not sure what you have but if it's not a Sport, I believe the 20" wheels are 20x8.5 with a 44mm offset so the overall tire center is shifted inward 0.25". I am only speculating though if this is the cause.

One idea I might pursue is to get one of these suspension bump stop pucks and throwing it on a lathe. First, using the middle hole as the mounting point, take the OD down just enough so it can be hammered into the end of the rack housing. Then drill out the center hole so it's slightly bigger than the screw. Hammer the bump stop into the end of the rack where the original pieces were.

If that is too scary of a proposition because if it don't work it'd be impossible to remove the piece, the other way to do it would be to install it more like the Mustang limiter clips. Lathe down the OD slightly smaller than the inner diameter of the rack housing and drill out the middle hole so it firmly presses onto the shaft before the screw threads start.

 

[Maxud]

I have the stock tire size of 255/50R20 but it is a Sport so the wheels are 20x9 with a 44mm offset. I'm not sure what you have but if it's not a Sport, I believe the 20" wheels are 20x8.5 with a 44mm offset so the overall tire center is shifted inward 0.25". I am only speculating though if this is the cause.

One idea I might pursue is to get one of these suspension bump stop pucks and throwing it on a lathe. First, using the middle hole as the mounting point, take the OD down just enough so it can be hammered into the end of the rack housing. Then drill out the center hole so it's slightly bigger than the screw. Hammer the bump stop into the end of the rack where the original pieces were.

If that is too scary of a proposition because if it don't work it'd be impossible to remove the piece, the other way to do it would be to install it more like the Mustang limiter clips. Lathe down the OD slightly smaller than the inner diameter of the rack housing and drill out the middle hole so it firmly presses onto the shaft before the screw threads start.

The car I am working on is 2016 Sport model as well, 20" tires. Maybe its something particular about tires on the car. They are pretty new
I definitely see rubbing marks, so much so, that wheel well is already rubbed through in one spot against the body.
Don't have a lathe, and as you correctly stated, pushing anything into the bore is one and done. Consider ramifications if the material is not hard enough to withstand the pounding. It can get pushed into the rack, possibly bind it, etc.. As it would be impossible to remove after the fact, I lean toward sticking to attachments to the end of the travel arm.

 

[Mekks082]

did you install the other block you picked up? I installed the plastic mustang stops on my pass side but have not had a chance to check and see if they are beat up or not.

hopefully we can find a perm fix to this!

 

[rmkilc]

Alright I've been meaning to write this up but I keep forgetting. This is what I did a month and a half ago with great results so far.

I ordered a foot of 2" diameter UHMW rod from McMaster-Carr to make new end stops out of.

I removed the driver's side end stop to check it's condition and see if I could get measurements if it hadn't came apart yet into a hundred pieces. It was still intact but the rubber was beginning to separate. There is also a plastic split washer that sits behind the end stop.

The entire stack sits in there like this with the top facing outward. My plan was to machine new parts to replace the end stops but still use the split plastic washers. The thickness of the end stop measured out to 0.5" exactly.

I machined two new end stops with an OD of 1.85", an ID of 1.2", and of course a thickness of 0.5". I did have to make the ID bigger after test fitting but I can't remember exactly how big it was. Maybe 1.25"?

Completed new end stops.

Here is a completed end stop next to an original, both sitting on top of the split plastic washers.

Driver's side installed.

Passenger side installed. With the OD dimensions I used, they slipped in there like the originals and can be removed just as easily.

I did end up buying a cheap inner tie rod tool so I could get the inner tie rods removed. It worked great.

 

[xartic]

rmkilc, good work on making that part. If it holds up, are you willing to make these available to purchase from you?

Also, will these hold up well with the temperature? Seeing how they are rated for about 180F.

 

[Maxud]

Very cool rmkilc. I hope the material holds up. I too would be willing to order from you.
Minor note, on the car I worked on, that split plastic washer under the stopper was broken in two.

 

[rmkilc]

rmkilc, good work on making that part. If it holds up, are you willing to make these available to purchase from you?

Also, will these hold up well with the temperature? Seeing how they are rated for about 180F.

Sorry, no. I don't own a lathe myself. I borrowed my dads.

As for temperature, I would think so. 180° is pretty high but I don't know how high it gets in the rack. Maybe because the passenger side is so close to the exhaust, that is why the original rubber fails so fast on that side. Some engineer buddies of mine who deal with plastics for a living suggested UHMW for this application so I thought I'd try it. After summer is over and a few months have passed, I'll take a look at them and see how they have held up.

 

[rmkilc]

One thing I did try first more as a proof of concept to see if UHMW would likely work or not was using UHMW washers from McMaster-Carr. No lathe or removal of inner tie rods required.

I drilled out the center hole so it's slightly smaller than the shaft.

Cut a split in it. It can be done with tin snips. This plastic is bendable and pliable. Almost like candy! Here it is next to a Mustang end stop.

I put three of them on the passenger side and used them this way for about a month before I machined the end stops I'm using now.

 

[MisterWizard]

Hey guys, I know there are quite of bit of popping/clicking/grinding steering threads already out there, however a lot of them have been consolidated to one thread, even though they have different causes of the problem, which makes it a bit of a mess.

Anyway, lately at slow speeds and turning, there seems to be popping sounds somewhere in the steering system. I took the wheels off and supported the front end and while turning the wheels left and right, I can feel the popping/grinding happening by the inner tie-rod, right as it goes in to the rack housing (see pic). It does not happen every time, but mostly happens as I am turning right.

Has anyone else had this issue? If so, what was the cause. I do not think this is related to the TSB regarding the "clicking" that happens at the CV joint. Personally, I would just replace the whole tie rod assembly (inner, shaft, and outer tie rod end) myself no questions asked, however I noticed there was a recall associated with the steering rack so thought it would be best to let the dealer take a look at it first in case it does happen to be a chewed up rack gear (or pinion).

I have an appointment at the dealer for Monday morning, but would love some insight on some of your experiences. Thanks to all.


IMAG1034.jpg

My 2013 Limited had the same strange popping noise when turning the wheels either at very slow speeds or when stopped. It was the right side strut bearing binding and actually making the spring jump. Replacing the front struts (70k miles, time to do it anyway) with new Monroe Quick Struts solved the problem. The quick strut is the whole spring/shock assembly all ready to bolt in, for the few extra bucks it saves all the hassle of disassembling the old struts and I would have still needed new top strut mounts anyway.

 

[Adam1978]

RSNovi, thanks for the suggestion, however after looking at the strut tower bearings many times and observing movement of both struts while turning the wheel, I was able to eliminate those from being the problem.

Sorry for the lack of replying, but its be pretty busy the last few months. I did end up finding what was causing the metal popping sound though and so far the ride has been great.

After isolating the popping the the passenger side inner tie rod area, I figured it would be a good idea just to replace the tie rod assembly as some preventive maintenance. The truck has around 130k on her so some things will need to be looked at eventually. Anyway, I pulled out the tie rod and saw a metal ring that was around the rack gear. Looking at the ring, it was obviously deformed from catching on the rack gear from time to time but luckily it is a softer metal than the gear itself. Check out some pics:

Metal ring inside of housing:


Removing metal ring from housing:


After taking out the ring and replacing the inner and outer tie rod assembly, there has been no popping whatsoever. Its been about a month now so safe to say the issue has been resolved.
Looking at the metal ring itself, it appears to be part of the outer rack housing and is supposed to sit about 1 in from the end of the rack housing itself. From what I can tell, it was designed as a secondary dust guard (small rubber bonded to the back of the ring) to prevent build up in the rack gear travel length. Luckily, we have EPAS, so there is little concern with any leaking from the rack itself. All in all, I would say we got lucky that there was no complete binding that occurred due to this ring. Just as a safe guard, Ill be replacing the driver side tie-rod assembly to check the condition of the ring on that side. Hopefully this information is helpful to someone. I know I was driving myself crazy checking everything else out until I isolated the sound.
If I get some time, Ill put together a how to for the tie rod replacement as I took lots of pictures. Did the plugs this weekend, flushed and filled transmission fluid over the last few weekends, and only thing left to do is replace the SCCM (intermittent wiper issues and steering wheel switch) but I need to check if my IDS is up to date.

Thank you for advising about that ring. I had a 2016 Explore come in same problem. I thought I was going to have to replace the rack but after seeing this it will save my customer so much money which Is what we like to do. Was there any damage to the inner tie rod on yours due to the ring. Once again thanks

 

[peterk9]

Thank you for advising about that ring. I had a 2016 Explore come in same problem. I thought I was going to have to replace the rack but after seeing this it will save my customer so much money which Is what we like to do. Was there any damage to the inner tie rod on yours due to the ring. Once again thanks

Welcome to the Forum Adam.

Peter

 

[sintrone]

Hi everyone, I have this same problem and am looking for what everyone has done for the latest solution. BlueOval24 and Maxud, have you guys come to final solution that has worked? I liked the early success of the mustang steering stops, but looks like they didn't hold up. I won't be able to machine anything, so am hoping for some off the shelf solution - any updates by anyone?

 

[sintrone]

One thing I did try first more as a proof of concept to see if UHMW would likely work or not was using UHMW washers from McMaster-Carr. No lathe or removal of inner tie rods required.

I drilled out the center hole so it's slightly smaller than the shaft.

View attachment 319064

Cut a split in it. It can be done with tin snips. This plastic is bendable and pliable. Almost like candy! Here it is next to a Mustang end stop.

View attachment 319066

I put three of them on the passenger side and used them this way for about a month before I machined the end stops I'm using now.

View attachment 319067

Do you think your temp solution, could be a longer solution?

 

[Maxud]

Hi everyone, I have this same problem and am looking for what everyone has done for the latest solution. BlueOval24 and Maxud, have you guys come to final solution that has worked? I liked the early success of the mustang steering stops, but looks like they didn't hold up. I won't be able to machine anything, so am hoping for some off the shelf solution - any updates by anyone?

its a car that I work on, I have not done any further fixes to this issue, tires are rubbing, and client is not complaining. Plenty of other things to fix on this Ford, so no resolution here.

 

[Maxud]

@rmkilc how did your solution hold up?

 

[sintrone]

its a car that I work on, I have not done any further fixes to this issue, tires are rubbing, and client is not complaining. Plenty of other things to fix on this Ford, so no resolution here.

Thanks. I bought the larger Mcmaster washers shown above and will put 2 of those in. Hope that works.

 

[rmkilc]

Do you think your temp solution, could be a longer solution?

I'm thinking that solution should work pretty well. I haven't tried it long term.

 

[rmkilc]

@rmkilc how did your solution hold up?

My solution has been holding up well. It feels good when it hits the end stops and there hasn't been any problems. One of these days when I have the wheels off I need to pull the boots off the rack and take a look and see how the plastic donuts are holding up but so far I haven't had a reason to look because it's been working great.

 

[xartic]

You are around 16 months of using this and notice no noise? I would be curious to see your results after this amount of time has passed and the wear level on your fix.

I've been doing my best to try to isolate this popping noise I started having after a new K-member/control arm/inner tie rod were replaced as a result of a wreck. Later had my axle on my driver side replaced as well and this noise is still present. Only thing I can narrow it down to is the washer/bushing that you have figured out.