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pos anti-theft system

calisoundmix

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'98 XLT SOHC
so i was doing some minor work on my explorer today (re-routing/new power cables to rear amps, oil change) and when i try to start it the damn thing won't start. there is cranking obviously going on and i can see the belt turning but it won't catch. also i notice the anti-theft light is blinking very fast when i try starting the car and also when it is in the on position.

-i have checked fuses, all are good
-99% sure fuel pump is ok (whirring and noises when pulling and re-inserting fuel pump fuse)
-CEL light comes on when in on position, no blinking.
-fuel filter replaced about 20k miles ago
-disconnected positive battery cable for 15 min.
-disconnected negative battery cable for 1 min.

i searched already and couldn't find any more help, other than towing the car to a dealership and having them reset the anti-theft system which i believe is the problem (due to rapidly flashing anti-theft light) i have left both positive and battery cables disconnected overnight and hopefully it will start in the morning. but in case it doesn't anyone have and hints or pointers as to if this is the problem or not? thanks!
 
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daffy

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When you were routing your cables did you go down the drivers side?

You may have bumped the connector on the RAP (drivers side, rear, just in front of the storage compartment).

Or you loosened a connector off of one of the other modules, the ECM(or PCM, can't remember which) is to the left of the radio.

Good luck finding your problem, please report back when you do, so you can help others in the future.
 
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calisoundmix

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thanks for the reply daffy-

i did go along the driver side but the only re-wiring was done in the engine compartment.

i checked anyway and the remote access module is fine, the factory keyless entry still works fine. i also tried arming and disarming the system with both the keyless entry pad and with the key in the drivers door, locked and unlocked fine.

just for the hell of it i thought maybe the pats module messed up my keys transponder but after trying my backup still the same problem. i checked my wiring diagrams and the only things that can trigger the anti-theft light seems to be the RAP module and the PATS module, since the RAP appears to be working fine after the keyless entry test i figure it is most likely the PATS module, anyone know exactly where it is located?

anyway i might be able to disable the PATS module?

also i do have an aftermarket code alarm alarm system which i lost the remote to, as long as my key is in the on position it won't trigger when i reconnect the battery, would this be able to tell the factory system not to start?

thanks all for the help
 
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calisoundmix

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so after another hour or so of trial and error i have determined that it looks like one of the security system (i'm assuming the pats one) is malfunctioning or locked into some no-start mode thinking someone is trying to steal the car (maybe from the battery connects and disconnects, had to do several times) i have both metered the spark plug output (getting nothing higher than ~140 millivolts) and taken a spark plug out and wiring it to the ground to see if it was sparking to no avail.

the owners manual mentions that if the anti-theft light is blinking / flashing rapidly it needs to be taken to a dealer for service or a qualified technician. so it looks like aaa will be towing my car to the stealership when they open at 7am and hopefully they can fix it quickly, it needed the speed control recall anyway...

on the brighter side i decided to repaint most of the plastic trim (wiper arms, cowl, window pillars, back liftgate cover, and the grille) and it looks freakin sweet. so after the stealership takes some of my money and the next paycheck comes in i'll be moving up to elite :D

i'll also try to talk to the ford tech and see what exactly they do for my case, whether they just reset the system or have to replace a module, etc. for future reference.
 
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cjones101812

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check fuses 24 7.5Amp, 25 7.5Amp, and 19 25Amp.

run codes. see if P1260 is stored or any B codes
 
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calisoundmix

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thanks cjones-

checked the fuses, no luck unfortunatly. don't have a scanner so tomorrow i'll head to the dealer and update you all on the findings. thanks again to all those who gave me some ideas...
 
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TheJackal

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The PATS wires come down from the steering column and are underneath the dash on the driver's side.
What model Code Alarm system do you have? Is it a remote start unit, too? If it is a remote start, there is a bypass module also installed. This module sends a valid code to the PATS system so the remote starter can function without a key. If it wasn't installed properly (e.g. with T-Taps or ScotchLocks) a wire might be broken and reconnecting it may solve the issue.
 
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CDW6212R

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I agree that it is likely about the PATS module, keys, or the aftermarket alarm wiring.

First, turn on the ignition, just on, and listen to the fuel pump(roll down the window to quite the ding). Does the fuel pump come on for a moment, and is the theft light flashing?

When the theft light flashes(ignition on), the ignition is disabled right then, including the fuel pump. The PATS module and PCM have failed to match the key code between them. All three have to be correct and communicating.

I have had an issue like that with my 98, and it hasn't done it for almost a year. Mine is the key code reader in the column, or wiring for that. My keys are good. What usually got my engine to start was turning the ignition on and off until the theft light stayed on solidly.

The easiest thing for you to try is what I did. If you can get the theft light to not flash, you can start the engine. When the theft light does not flash, the fuel pump stays on longer, you can hear the difference. Try that, turn the key to on, check the theft light. If it flashes then turn the key off, and try it again.

If that doesn't help you, then the problem is a hard fault, I'd be looking at the wiring for the PATS, PCM, and the key reader at the ignition cylinder. Check the wiring for the alarm PATS bypass module. Good luck,
 
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calisoundmix

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thanks for the help all but by the time i read this i had already dropped off the ex at the local lincoln mercury dealer (the ford guys are horrible, won't ever go there again). it needed the speed control recall anyway. thanks again for the help though and hopefully they don;t charge up the ass
 
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calisoundmix

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just got a call from the dealership. from what the adviser understands the transponder needs to be replaced and the system reprogrammed. they want $350 for the fix. :eek:

so there goes my bonus $$$ from the 10 hours of double time i worked, lucky i'm damn good with electronics so i'm having them save all the parts and i'm going to see if they really are broken or not and all.

also had to love the aaa tow truck driver, i told him it wouldnt start and to tow it, he insisted on checking everything, battery, fuel pump shut off etc. and had a real ####### know it all attitude, just my rant from this....
 
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CDW6212R

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Sorry that we couldn't help you more. It sounds like I should try to find that part and replace it before it goes completely in my truck. Good luck,
 
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cjones101812

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how much will they charge to disable the PATS??
 
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CDW6212R

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A new PCM program can do that, so the cost of a flasher and the programming, too much for just the PATS change.
 
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calisoundmix

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no worry about not getting help in time, i've already learned tons from this site, unfortunatly i can't fix this, but so now the genius tech working on my car didn't notice that the PATS module was bad in his first diagnosis so i gotta wait till tomorrow to pick it up since they didn't have the part in stock. now it's up to $430 for parts and labor, ouch huh?

i asked about disabling the PATS system and was told they couldn't do it since it was illegal, don't know if thats the case nationwide or just here in california.

i'll update again tomorrow with the results...
 
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TheJackal

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no worry about not getting help in time, i've already learned tons from this site, unfortunatly i can't fix this, but so now the genius tech working on my car didn't notice that the PATS module was bad in his first diagnosis so i gotta wait till tomorrow to pick it up since they didn't have the part in stock. now it's up to $430 for parts and labor, ouch huh?

i asked about disabling the PATS system and was told they couldn't do it since it was illegal, don't know if thats the case nationwide or just here in california.

i'll update again tomorrow with the results...

I'm pretty sure it's not illegal to disable PATS, though California has some goofy laws so there's no telling. Things that are perfectly legal everywhere else are a no-no in California.
PATS is something Ford come up with to help prevent car theft. Ford dealers may decline people who want to have the PATS system disabled though because they may be afraid of people trying to forge their way into getting the system shut off on a stolen car or one that somebody's trying to "fake" stolen to collect insurance money or so.
 
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calisoundmix

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so just got my car back, total came to $530, amazing....:eek:

but they did not give me back the parts they replaced as required by law and requested by me, so i'm going back to talk with the service advisor tomorrow (she had left for the day already) to either get the parts, reduce the cost, or get reported to california's bureau of automotive repairs, who don;t take very kindly to dealerships skirting the law...

as for what they claim to have replaced the list is as follows....

1 x Transceiver (Part No. YW1Z-15607-BA)
1 x Module - Engine (Part No. XW7Z-19A366-BA) <-GEM Module?
1 x PATS Module (Listed as R & R PATS Module, no Part No.)

On the plus side the gave the car a great detailing job but $530 still seems too high for the car not starting suddenly, and of course the highly certified Ford/Lincoln mechanic didn't know how to properly torque down the bolts for the steering column, go figure it's a stealership.

wish me luck tomorrow
 
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CDW6212R

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If all three parts failed at the same time then you should be paying for all of them. If only one was bad then you should only be charged for that one part.
 
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cjones101812

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when you talk to your service advisor in the morning, ask what codes the mechanic pulled.

the PATS has 5 parts, besides wiring and the light.

1. PCM
2. PATS Control Module
3. PATS Transceiver Module
4. (RAP) Remote Anti-theft Personality Module
5. your key

unless a short blew them, 3 modules going out at the same time is rare (i've seen sensors or actuators take out computer before).

if you don't believe the service writer's story then call the BAR.
 
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CDW6212R

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They likely began by replacing parts with new parts, and charge for each as they go. That would not be ethical.
 
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