Power Window Motor I'm Stumped HELP **update more details**

[bruce119]

UPDATE PLEASE SEE POST #7 IN GREEN BELOW
Sorry it's a little long but I needed to tell details.

First I have 2 (that's TWO) 93 X's identical one is for parts. You guys helped me a lot when I got the latter one a year ago it has been running great thanks.

Now the problem the passenger window motor has stopped running. First time it happen the window was down motor would give a click but not start. It's not the nylon bushings I changed that last year. I took it apart took the motor out and it mysteriously started to work. So I put back together thinking maybe a solenoid or something like that stuck in the motor. It work for another week and did it again. Now I got the widow to go up and it wont reverse. I have power coming from the switch at the plug to the motor. It runs forward but wont run in reverse. But there is power coming from the switch. Now here is the strange thing I have another motor from the other X I know it is good I swap it same thing. OK so now I think switch BUT the old one did give power at the plug going to the motor. So I swap the switch SAME THING I am testing the plug in-between the switch and the motor yellow (up) & red (down) and I push the switch up I get power on the yellow zero on the red and when I push the switch down I get power on the red and zero on the yellow. What gives is there a micro stop switch or something at full open and full close but then I would think I wouldn't get power to the motor leads.

Sorry it was so long but I wanted to get the details to avoid a lot of simple questions.

Thanks guys
Bruce
Holiday, Florida

 

[Roadrunner777]

There is a circuit in the drivers door to automatically open the window if the open button is pressed for 1/2 second or less. It's called a one-touch module. If you can use a voltmeter, you can probably find a way to bypass the module so it is just a normal power window. I am hoping to learn how to add images to threads this weekend, I'll see if I can get the schematic uploaded.

 

[bruce119]

There is a circuit in the drivers door to automatically open the window if the open button is pressed for 1/2 second or less. It's called a one-touch module. If you can use a voltmeter, you can probably find a way to bypass the module so it is just a normal power window. I am hoping to learn how to add images to threads this weekend, I'll see if I can get the schematic uploaded.

Thanks for reply one BIG mistake I made. It is the passenger door I will edit my OP if I can. I am wondering if it is in the wiring somewhere. This afternoon wile working it it started to mysteriously work again. I need to get a volt meter I am not sure how the power works to the motor to reverse direction. I know I get power in both directions but the motor was only running in forward. Now I am thinking the must be a + & - to operate so maybe the switch makes one side - wile the other is + and vis-versa. All I had was a test light and could only check for +. And it seems to be an intermediate problem. I would like to find out just how the switch works there are about 5 wires coming in and only 2 going to the motor. That is making me think they reverse roles of + & - and I mite have a bad ground some where before the switch???? Sounds like fun.

Still open for suggestions but it is working again we will see for how long

Thanks
Bruce

 

[BWTGUY]

The one touch module is the culprit. You are better off replacing the module.

 

[The Chief]

A lot of those one touch modules have a Molex-type plug that sometimes either comes loose or the pins no longer seat in the plug. If it started working suddenly while you were working on it, chances are the Molex wasn't seated correctly or may have loose pins. I had this happen to me once and it happened to be the wires on the plug were loose on their pins. Good luck!

 

[bruce119]

The one touch module is the culprit. You are better off replacing the module.

Now that has me thinking. Even though it is the passenger side window and dose not have a one touch. But the window is also controlled by the drivers main console maybe something is going on in there.

For the moment it is working. I just know the next time it happens the wife will be in the truck put the window down and it will start poring rain

thanks

 

[bruce119]

UPDATE

Well it happen again passenger side. But I am getting familiar with the systems. Now the question is what causes the motor to stop when it reaches full up & down. Obviously something stops the motor from over torquing and stripping gears.

I have concluded that the problem lyes in what ever stops the motor. The motor only quits in full down or up never in-between. This last time it quit in full down I replaced ALL the switches in both driver & passenger door no fix. I plugged a spare motor to the lead in the passenger door in it worked both directions no problem but the one in did not work. So I tore it out again and again it started to work wile out.

So my conclusion whatever mechanism that causes the motor to stop wile full up or down. Perhaps it is in the motor something that is tripped under a load is sticking ????

So please the question is now what causes the motor to stop. The only thing I can think of now to replace is the solenoid in the motor. Rite now I have no problems as long as I don't lower the window all the way just leave it up an inch and there is no problem. But that's very temporary.

 

[The Chief]

The master control switch stops the windows via relay inside...me thinks you may have a bum MCS...that controls all the travel; there are no switches or stops that are electronically responsible for window travel, at least nothing I could find. I looked in my Haynes and Chilton books whilst sitting here and see all roads lead to the MCS...IMO

 

[bruce119]

The master control switch stops the windows via relay inside...me thinks you may have a bum MCS...that controls all the travel; there are no switches or stops that are electronically responsible for window travel, at least nothing I could find. I looked in my Haynes and Chilton books whilst sitting here and see all roads lead to the MCS...IMO

Is this MCS in the passenger door. The buttons you push to operate the windows or the one on the driver side or there was some type of module on the drivers door no switches but about a 6 pin module that had the window wires color going into it. Now like I said I have an identical 93 X in the back yard for spare parts. I changed out every one of those parts mentioned above. The only thing I didn't change out yet was the motor it self. That is next.

I would like to find out how exactly the motor knows when to turn it self off at full up and full down. I am just guessing but I think it mite be a currant draw thing maybe inside the motor (that is the only thing I haven't changed yet)

Were is the MCS maybe I am missing something.

Thanks for the help

 

[The Chief]

It is the button cluster on the drivers' side door...the pushbutton switches are one piece; the MCS.

 

[The Chief]

http://www.amazon.com/1991-94-Explorer-Control-Ford-Drivers/dp/B002SWVTPS

 

[Spdrcer34]

It is the Window Regulator....i.e. the Scissor assembly....that needs to be replaced. When it get's to a FULL UP or FULL DOWN position, the assembly got bent sometime over the years, and binds.

Just be VERY careful when you unbolt the motor from the scissor assembly. I cut my thumb off while working on mine. The surgeons were able to fix it, and it is 95% functional now....

Ryan

 

[bruce119]

It is the Window Regulator....i.e. the Scissor assembly....that needs to be replaced. When it get's to a FULL UP or FULL DOWN position, the assembly got bent sometime over the years, and binds.

Just be VERY careful when you unbolt the motor from the scissor assembly. I cut my thumb off while working on mine. The surgeons were able to fix it, and it is 95% functional now....

Ryan

Hey Ryan

Ouch sorry about your thumb glad to hear they were able to save it. I had the motor out several times now so I am pretty good at that. I replaced all electrical switches associated with operation on both driver & passenger side that I am aware of.

I see the regulator you speak of it appearers totally mechanical. I understand it becoming bent and deformed over time. I just am not sure how it kills the motor I am going to hypothesize that the motor senses pressure on full down such as an overload currant and shuts down. Now I have no idea if that is what is actually going on. Now if it is the regulator I guess when in full down it is keeping to much pressure on the motor. Heck when I take the motor out it is hard to pop it out of place I guess the gears holding it in. But when the motor is out I can move the regulator with no problem it functions freely.

Seems like a bit of a job to replace the regulator. I got a Chilton & a Haynes manual not a lot in there I found a LOT more info here. I mite start a new thread on advise before tackling the job of replacing the regulator.

Any tips
Thanks guys for the help
Bruce

 

[Spdrcer34]

It is a PITA to remove the regulators for the first time, drilling out the 1/4" rivets.

But once you convert it to bolts, and nylock nuts, it is a 20 minute job from the time you start taking the door panel off, to when you have the regulator in your hand.

But I PROMISE you, if you replace the regulators it will fix the problem.

Ryan

 

[bruce119]

It is a PITA to remove the regulators for the first time, drilling out the 1/4" rivets.

But once you convert it to bolts, and nylock nuts, it is a 20 minute job from the time you start taking the door panel off, to when you have the regulator in your hand.

But I PROMISE you, if you replace the regulators it will fix the problem.

Ryan

Thanks for the info. I got the "HOW-TO" on how to fix the bushings in the motor. What a great write up sure saved me a TON of time and muddling through it the first time. I will search around the forum and see what I can find to help. You know the look out for this and that. Now you said convert to bolts & nylon nuts sounds like there mite be a kit out there. I have a donner truck in spare parts but this mite be something I mite want to get new and be done with it.

Thanks for the help
Bruce

 

[Roadrunner777]

Addressing an earlier question: There are no limit switches on the windows. If you press down and it hits bottom, it stalls the motor. There is a thermal limiter that protects the motor from overheating.

 

[bruce119]

Addressing an earlier question: There are no limit switches on the windows. If you press down and it hits bottom, it stalls the motor. There is a thermal limiter that protects the motor from overheating.

Thanks this helps. I think I may swap motors first before the regulator. I have a spare actually a few. Perhaps the thermal limiter in the motor is sticking and not resetting.

Thanks
Bruce

 

[Spdrcer34]

...It's NOT the motor....

I rebuilt my motor 3x, taking it all the way down, replacing the contact bushings, cleaning up the contacts with emery cloth...it didn't help. It made the window go up and down a little faster, and smoother. But when it was all the way down, there was still binding.

There is no 'kit' to replace the rivets with nuts/bolts. All you have to do is buy about 5-6 nuts/bolts per door. They should be 1/4"- 20 x 1".

Put the bolts in from the INSIDE of the door shell, so the threads stick out pointing towards you. Then put the nuts on. Using nylock nuts prevents them from loosening up with vibration.

Ryan

 

[bruce119]

...It's NOT the motor....

I rebuilt my motor 3x, taking it all the way down, replacing the contact bushings, cleaning up the contacts with emery cloth...it didn't help. It make the window go up and down a little faster, and smoother. But when it was all the way down, there was still binding.

There is no 'kit' to replace the rivets with nuts/bolts. All you have to do is buy about 5-6 nuts/bolts per door. They should be 1/4"- 20 x 1".

Put the bolts in from the INSIDE of the door shell, so the threads stick out pointing towards you. Then put the nuts on. Using nylock nuts prevents them from loosening up with vibration.

Ryan

Thanks I guess I will go for this one from Auto Zone part #740-672
http://www.autozone.com/autozone/pa...ter=4&itemIdentifier=828665_35830_13056_78656

It will be a week before I can do it. I got other things on the to-do list ahead of it for now. I will let you all know how it goes.

Thanks
Bruce

 

[sabel]

'98 XLT Driver's Window Down, possible motor? HELP

I think my "problem" is similar but may need more refining of the answers. This is my first post so thank you for any and all help.

Problem is with a 1998 Explorer: driver side window worked today to go down but when I tried to raise it there is no window motor noise and window is stuck in the down position. When I press the window switch button there is a clicking sound from under the instrument panel near the accelerator.

Spoke to auto parts guys at two locations for ideas. Arrived home and tried to use a multi-meter (not positive I did it right) and got the same power readings from all four switch connections [touching the pin connectors] so I assume switch is good. Parts guy at Ford said the clicking noise was from the relay under the dash so I checked the relays (down by the accelerator) and disconnected all six and found the connection that worked the windows. One at a time I placed each of the six relays to this connection and each will power the three other windows but not the drivers window so I assume the relays are good. [by the way there is NO diagram in the manual to tell you where these relays are located or to tell you which one does what function. If Ford guy had not told me I would not have known to check there, but that is where the "click" sound comes from when the drivers window switch button is pushed.]

Could the motor just go out without ANY warning? Without motor noise and apparent relay and switch operation, I think it is the motor. Any thoughts on what could be the cause?