pre lube and centrifugal engine oil filters

[2000StreetRod]

external ATF loop control

Some 5R55E users modify the valve body so the external ATF cooling loop is always open. I think the internal thermostat control is based on sound logic and that rapidly reaching and maintaining 150 deg F has performance and reliability advantages. I found that there is always a small flow thru the external loop but that I have to drive for about 20 minutes before the temperature reaches 150 degrees F and the internal valve opens allowing full flow thru the external loop. That's when shift flares can occur because the pump has to keep up with the additional fluid flow.

I agree that just having a remote filter (ATF or engine oil) located away from the engine and in the moving vehicle airflow reduces the oil temperature. You can even purchase a fin assembly that fits over a filter to radiate additional heat. With the ATF external loop thermostatically controlled by the internal sensor/valve you never have to worry about overcooling the ATF. By the way, liquid to liquid heat exchangers (radiator internal ATF cooler) are more effective than air to liquid heat exchangers (auxiliary ATF coolers).

 

[david4451]

photo bucket

I'd really like to see your pictures. If your not an "Elite Explorer" to post pics you'll need to put them into something like PhotoBucket and then you can copy and paste the images into your post. If you use PhotoBucket I can explain how to do it.

Hi Koda2000, I tried to join photo bucket, but can't, maybe it's my location they do not like (Philippines.) I'm not elite member, I could email the pictures to you and you post them if that's allowed ? Let me know please, thanks for trying to help.

 

[koda2000]

Hi Koda2000, I tried to join photo bucket, but can't, maybe it's my location they do not like (Philippines.) I'm not elite member, I could email the pictures to you and you post them if that's allowed ? Let me know please, thanks for trying to help.

I don't know why it doesn't work for you, but I'll try to post them if you send them to me. I'll PM you my email address.

 

[david4451]

I don't know why it doesn't work for you, but I'll try to post them if you send them to me. I'll PM you my email address.

It's done, hope they are ok, just post what you think is relavant.

 

[david4451]

Atf cooler

Some 5R55E users modify the valve body so the external ATF cooling loop is always open. I think the internal thermostat control is based on sound logic and that rapidly reaching and maintaining 150 deg F has performance and reliability advantages. I found that there is always a small flow thru the external loop but that I have to drive for about 20 minutes before the temperature reaches 150 degrees F and the internal valve opens allowing full flow thru the external loop. That's when shift flares can occur because the pump has to keep up with the additional fluid flow.

I agree that just having a remote filter (ATF or engine oil) located away from the engine and in the moving vehicle airflow reduces the oil temperature. You can even purchase a fin assembly that fits over a filter to radiate additional heat. With the ATF external loop thermostatically controlled by the internal sensor/valve you never have to worry about overcooling the ATF. By the way, liquid to liquid heat exchangers (radiator internal ATF cooler) are more effective than air to liquid heat exchangers (auxiliary ATF coolers).

One thing I can say is it is always hot here, 30 to 35 degree C. So the transmission cooler is the one I'll fit with almost no mods to the way the original was except the extra cooler and a Magnafine in line filter.

Taking out valve body flow thermostat is not something I would consider. The only advantage I can see doing that is if you wanted to change the atf on a cold transmission, you'd get it out quickly while adding through dip stick orifice.

Some pics may be added very soon of pre lube parts, I've relocated filter and the whole setup pre lube wise may be finished tomorrow.

For the past few months the oil pressure sensor jumps up and down when engine is hot in traffic, especially on a downward slope. I'd fitted a real oil pressure gauge temporarily to see if I was losing all oil pressure. Fortunately it never got below 5 or 6 psi rpm 600.

Thinking about this, could the silicone valve in the oil filter have something to do with this. It does try to restrict flow and thin hot 5-30 synthetic does not move through the oil pump as readily at low rpm. Oil pressure is 35 to 40 at 2000 rpm on highway. Also my engine does not use any oil to talk of between oil changes, so it's in good condition.

One thought came to mind is when this occurs I could switch on pre lube pump! Don't think it could do any harm for 10 or 15 second? What say you?

 

[2000StreetRod]

oil pressure

. . . Taking out valve body flow thermostat is not something I would consider. The only advantage I can see doing that is if you wanted to change the atf on a cold transmission, you'd get it out quickly while adding through dip stick orifice.

The rationale for disabling the temperature valve to the external loop open position is to maximize cooling.

. . . For the past few months the oil pressure sensor jumps up and down when engine is hot in traffic, especially on a downward slope. I'd fitted a real oil pressure gauge temporarily to see if I was losing all oil pressure. Fortunately it never got below 5 or 6 psi rpm 600.

Thinking about this, could the silicone valve in the oil filter have something to do with this. It does try to restrict flow and thin hot 5-30 synthetic does not move through the oil pump as readily at low rpm. Oil pressure is 35 to 40 at 2000 rpm on highway. Also my engine does not use any oil to talk of between oil changes, so it's in good condition.

As I recall the stock oil pressure switch value is about 5 psi. If above 5 psi the "gauge" in the instrument panel indicates mid-range or normal pressure. If below 5 psi the "gauge" indicates low or zero pressure. I think Ford recommends 5W30 to help meet federal fuel economy standards. I use 5W30 full synthetic for better performance (less friction at high rpm) and the summers here are mild. If I had high boost and the summers were hot I would run 10W40 full synthetic. I think my pressure at idle is around 10 psi but my idle is set to 750 rpm for the blower mods.

I burned up my 1994 Jeep Grand Cherokee V8 by starving the oil pump. The heads were poorly designed with small oil drain ports. If sludge built up in the engine due to short trip driving the sludge would further restrict the oil return. Then if the engine ran at cruise speed for about 30 minutes all of the oil would be in the heads and none in the pan for the pickup tube. The Jeep had a real oil gauge and I would see it start to drop. So I'd pull over at the first opportunity, open the hood and check the oil level. By then the oil had returned to the pan and indicated normal on the dip stick. When I got in and started the engine the oil pressure would read normal until I drove for another 30 minutes. I assumed the pressure sensor was defective. After replacing the engine with a rebuilt one I researched the problem on the internet and learned what I had experienced was fairly common after about 70K miles even for owners that always changed their oil and filter at the recommended intervals. I only drive my Sport about 3,000 miles a year and rarely out of town. I perform an engine flush every other oil change to reduce sludge accumulation.

The check valve in the oil filter is to prevent back flow. A check valve in a quality filter should provide minimal forward flow restriction. Many engine filters are mounted at an angle rather than vertically with the ports at the top. Without the check valve the oil in filter would drain when the engine is off extending the "dry start" duration. One thing I like about remote filter vertical mounts is no drain back flow and no spillage when changing the filter.

One thought came to mind is when this occurs I could switch on pre lube pump! Don't think it could do any harm for 10 or 15 second? What say you?

My Accusump holds three quarts of oil under pressure which I set with an air pump. Anytime the engine oil pressure is less than the Accusump pressure oil flows out of the cylinder to bring the pressure up. Your oil pump may be worn or the pressure relief valve spring may be weak. One of the lobes may be broken.

You could energize a relay with the output of your oil pressure switch to activate your electric pump. However, there is only minor load on the bearings when the engine is idling so it may not be worth the trouble. Don't forget that your pump is not rated for continuous duty.

 

[koda2000]

Hi Koda2000, I tried to join photo bucket, but can't, maybe it's my location they do not like (Philippines.) I'm not elite member, I could email the pictures to you and you post them if that's allowed ? Let me know please, thanks for trying to help.

David - Here are the pics you sent me. (the ones I could upload anyway). You'll have to edit and add descriptions...

Pic 1: Banjo fitting & bolt on oil pan

Pic 2: Connections to pump

Pic 3: Engineering plastic adaptor with threaded hole for banjo bolt & fitting. Large thread sticking out of plastic adaptor has to be cut down then screwed into engine oil filter threaded hole(22 mm 1.5 mm pitch)

Pic 4: Hayden adaptor for remoter filter mount

Pic 5: Large nut holds engineering plastic adapter to engine, aluminum adapter then spins on to plastic adapter.

Rest of pics are self explanatory.

 

[david4451]

uploaded pics.

That's great Phil, thanks very much it is really appreciated. I'll add a description tonight.

 

[david4451]

pics descripition

Pic 1: Banjo fitting & bolt on oil pan

Pic 2: Conenections to pump

Pic 3 & 4: Engineering plastic adaptor with threaded hole for banjo bolt & fitting. Large thread sticking out of plastic adaptor has to be cut down then screwed into engine oil filter threaded hole(22 mm 1.5 mm pitch)
Below is Hayden adaptor for remoter filter mount

Pic 5: Large nut holds engineering plastic adapter to engine, aluminium adater then spins on to plastic adapter.

Rest of pic are self explanatory.

All these parts are back on ST today along with hoses for remote filter, and a royal purple large filter.
I realize this set up is not rocket science, but it uses a relatively cheap pump and it does the job of pre lubeing the engine very well. As the saying goes "PRE LUBE IT OR LOSE IT".

 

[koda2000]

Question - Did you make the "engineered plastic" part on a 3D printer?

 

[david4451]

Ofcoarse, I've got three of them lol.
I live almost in the jungle, no joke, I bought a piece 4 inch X 10 inch and had it machined locally

Its been on the ST for three months with hoses attached, but ends blocked up to make sure it was up to the job, until the pump arrived. If you don't have something like this you can't pump the oil into the engine up stream or before the filter, and oil must go into outside ring of holes of the filter, then through filter and into engine through large single hole of threaded tube, again this was made locally.

 

[2000StreetRod]

banjo bolts

Very nice installation! My Volvo 850 turbowagon had those banjo bolts on the turbocharger for the oil lubrication lines. I think they are fine for that purpose and pre-oiling but I would be concerned about using them for the entire engine flow. The ports on the bolts might be too small and restrictive. The total cross sectional area (two holes in the bolt) should be comparable to the opening at 4 o'clock position in the filter mount shown in pic 5 for the entire engine flow.

 

[koda2000]

Very nice installation! My Volvo 850 turbowagon had those banjo bolts on the turbocharger for the oil lubrication lines. I think they are fine for that purpose and pre-oiling but I would be concerned about using them for the entire engine flow. The ports on the bolts might be too small and restrictive. The total cross sectional area (two holes in the bolt) should be comparable to the opening at 4 o'clock position in the filter mount shown in pic 5 for the entire engine flow.

I agree re the banjo bolt holes. Maybe cross drilling them would help, but they may be still to restrictive for normal engine oil low. Oil pressure is one thing, volume is another. The banjo fittings look cool, but I think I'd go with regular fittings and even then only for the purpose of pre-oiling. Nice setup though.

 

[david4451]

Banjo bolts

Thankyou Dale, only using banjo fittings on pre lube, I agree the openings are too small in bolt for normal engine lube.
Now I've done remote filter mount with royal purple filter, when I switch pump off but with ignition on it holds the pressure at sensor for 3 or 4 seconds. That is pleasing as it's a positive effect, produced by the filter I think.
It's 11:45 pm here, time for sleep and for you its lunch.

This pre lube project has really pleasantly suprised me the ST start up is so damn smooth and quiet, nothing but a sweet purrrr. Good night mate.

 

[koda2000]

I really like David's relatively expensive solution to putting together a pre-oiling system and I plan to construct something similar soon. In the meantime, I started thinking, what if I could use my engine's oil pump to get pressure up into the hydraulic tensioners before starting the engine? I always do this with my classic cars before pumping the gas pedal to start them, as they may sit for weeks, even months, w/o being started. Of course the problem with an electronically fuel injected engine is that just turning the key will start the engine immediately.

I checked my owner's manual and found that fuse 23 in the power distribution box supplies power for the fuel pump. My ST had been sitting cold for 6 hours, so I pulled fuse 23 and cranked the engine to see how long it would take for the oil pressure gauge to come up. I'm currently running 0W30 oil, so I figured that might work to my advantage. I found that I had oil pressure after about 8-10 seconds of cranking, I then reinstalled fuse 23 and started the engine. No noise, no flare. I realize this adds wear/tear on the starter motor, but I'm not planning on this being a long term solution.

I put together a harness with 2 wires inserted into where fuse 23 goes and added a 20A in-line fuse on the hot wire, then I ran the wires into the cab to a toggle switch mounted on a small bracket under the dash. Before starting then engine, I flip the switch to OFF, crank the engine until I see oil pressure, then flip the switch to ON and start the engine with no chain noise or starting flare.

Edit: It turned out that none of the above was necessary to turn of the fuel injectors. If you just hold the accelerator to the floor while cranking, the fuel injectors are turned off automatically.

I'll see how this works for a few days, but it looks encouraging. I can't stand the t/c noise accompanied with the staring flare, so until I build my pre-oiler this may get me by.

Edit: Been doing the above starting procedure for many months now. Gets around the problem with no ill effects to date. I'm also back to using 5w30 as there was little benefit to using the 0W30. As this truck has been giving me a host of problems (engine and otherwise) I'm not going to sink more money into it by putting together a pre-oiler. I'll just drive it until it blow up and decide what to do with it.

 

[koda2000]

David - Here are the pics you sent me. (the ones I could upload anyway). You'll have to edit and add descriptions...

Pic 1: Banjo fitting & bolt on oil pan

Pic 2: Connections to pump

Pic 3: Engineering plastic adaptor with threaded hole for banjo bolt & fitting. Large thread sticking out of plastic adaptor has to be cut down then screwed into engine oil filter threaded hole(22 mm 1.5 mm pitch)

Pic 4: Hayden adaptor for remoter filter mount

Pic 5: Large nut holds engineering plastic adapter to engine, aluminum adapter then spins on to plastic adapter.

Rest of pics are self explanatory.

I've added 2 more pics David sent me. Installed pump in battery tray location and the remote oil filter.

 

[david4451]

pre oiler update

Thanks Phil(Koda2000) for posting pics.
It's 5 weeks since the pre lube set up has been operational, withno problems. The pump which is the heart of the system is working perfectly and pre lubes the engine in 10 seconds or less. I've post lubed the engine with hot oil and the pump is working like a champ.

From lots of searches on pumps, I can certainly advise if you want a pre lube system to work well you should use a gear pump. They handle hot oil well and that is required after short stops. I've come to the conclusion that whatever pre lube system you use, it can only be advantageous in preserving those delicate plastic timing chain parts. All because those hydraulic tensioners are filled with oil prior to start up and that rattle and flare at startup disappears.

Before joinine The Serious Explorations forum I had never heard about pre lube, pre oiling and thought that the rattle at startup was the fan belt tensioner
no bs!!!!! This is an excellent forum and a big thank you to all you guys for the input and knowledge I've gained.

 

[2000StreetRod]

pre-lube time

Is that 10 seconds to activate the oil pressure switch at 5 psi or to get the oil pressure great enough to eliminate rattle? For my Sport's Accusump the oil pressure sensor located at the oil pressure switch port senses 20 psi in about 3 seconds. I think I'd be willing to spend more for a higher flow/pressure pump to achieve similar results for my Limited.

 

[david4451]

The 10 seconds is a max to jump sensor needle up, the literature on the pump says max psi is 30. Let's say for arguments sake it is 20 psi that pre lube pressure is, that completely eliminates rattle and flare.

My pump is also on a remote and under ST with remote in hand, remote on and there is pressure in the lines to and from remote filter almost immediately. When I start the ST I leave the remote switch on for 3 or 4 seconds after needle jumps up. All that is within 10 seconds originally stated.

There is no good or bad system when it comes to having a prelube system that works. The Acusump system is a little limited when it comes to oil changes, also requiring a lot of extra oil, but it still works. Also expensive to purchase.

As for a higher pressure pump, it's not necessary from my experience with this gear pump. The only thing for this pump to do now is pass the test of time.

 

[2000StreetRod]

applying what I've learned

Don't misunderstand - I'm not advocating an Accusump over an electric pump. It was the pre-oiler I used on my Sport and I'm trying to apply what I've learned on my Limited. I avoided an electric pump on my Sport because of having to drill a port in the oil pan and concern about the vulnerability of the connecting hose from the pan to the pump. Disadvantages of the Accusump are: the need for a periodic purge to eliminate old oil which results in a dry start; no convenient way to pressurize the cylinder with clean oil for a new engine start; flow limited to the volume of the cylinder. I think it's a good choice for drag racing because if the mechanical oil pump fails during a run the engine will probably be saved by the volume of the cylinder.

An electric pump can be used as a daily pre-oiler and for oiling a rebuilt engine. It can be used to drain the oil in the oil pan and to test oil pressure sensors without losing the pre-oiler capability. If the flow is great enough it could allow limping home if the mechanical pump fails. When I install my rebuilt Aviator engine with new crank, rods and pistons I will have several thousand dollars invested in the long block. I want to be able to pressurize the lubrication system before the first and subsequent engine starts and to be able to drive home even if the mechanical oil pump fails.