Pro -M, PMAS whichever they are now

[Turdle]

Well, due to this problem
http://www.explorerforum.com/forums/showthread.php?t=203962
I tore into My pro-M maf sensor for a cleaning. It is the first time I have done this--
I got the screws out ok-but as I was pushing them out of the holes-a washer hung up a bit on the protective cover over the electronics. It just popped right off. There is no way it was sealed--
Looking inside-I saw where they removed the RFI shield to media blast the stock Ford electronics for fuel injector "calibration" , which is how it was done.

Well just take a look at this benchmark quality (sarcasm intended)

First-the RFI sheild was left unsoldered-
And second-how much trouble would it have been to blow out the plastic shavings with a bit of air-(we know you had air-you media blasted the thing--)
Green arrow in second picture points to the shavings--

The friigin morons say they are operating as a completely new company-but you will find them selling their crap on
www.fordfuelinjection.com

as PMAS air meters--

About 5 years ago, this was "the meter"
Just about every Mustang in Muscle Mustangs and Fast Fords Magazine had this meter.
So, I bought one.
I'm the moron--

 

[aldive]

Doug Studdard ( Bama Chips ) and I dyno tested the Pro M meter ( borrowed from Kevin [ MONMIX ] ) on my truck several years ago and concluded the stock Ford electronics in a C & L housing was the way to go.

 

[Turdle]

I don't know if you can see it-but the top of the rfi cover was wet-there are moisture stains visible-
I snapped the cover back on and there is at least a 1mm gap I can see light through--all the way around the seam where it meets the housing. I think there should be a gasket in there.

 

[CDW6212R]

Sorry to see that Jon, BTW they are still touting those meters on the Mustang forums. They live by the "calibrated" MAFs. Do you have a SCT BA2600 or 2800 on your list?

 

[aldive]

Jon, do you have a stock Ford MAF you can install and see if thats the problem?

 

[chriswells78]

yes, if the stock meter will bolt into the housing you are using, that is the way I would go.

 

[Turdle]

Al-
The only other meter I have is the lightning meter for my final tune-which wil need to be written from scratch. James has been on top of me all the way-he's ready-I'm lagging behind.
I have been putting it off for a few reasons-mainly, the truck is usable now. With all the other vehicle issues I have been facing-frankly the thought of this being non operational for a few days has me nervous. Now here I am, grasshopper asking the ant for food--

grrr--

 

[chriswells78]

Try bolting the lightning meter in that housing. You can re-adjust your MAF calibration through your tuner can't you?

 

[CDW6212R]

Yes, do that, ask James if you can get an answer first. You may be okay to drive it carefully, but a tune that he can send you would be better. If you cannot get with him first, of course you have that MAF contraption right? I'm not picking at you, I'm way behind you, just wishing that I was there. Good luck,

 

[Fredness]

I went through 3 of them on my 3.0L Ranger and they never got it right, went to a 70mm SOHC MAF and it ran great. F' em, I say...

Besides, according to Motorcraft's website, all MAF's are "calibrated" to +/- 2% of Spec. If you install a factory MAF, load that MAF transfer table in to the PCM and tweak it for 1.000 STFT (learning disabled) - THAT would be calibrated.

 

[rocket 5979]

Try bolting the lightning meter in that housing. You can re-adjust your MAF calibration through your tuner can't you?

Chris what you suggest doing is just a guessing game. I suggest against doing that as Jon's AFR's will likely be way off. Not a safe thing to do.

Jon, I suggest that since your truck happens to be down anyways to just take care of business now if you can afford it. Why bandaid things for a temporary and possibly unsafe (for your engine) fix to only tear back into it again at a later date and spend more money and time. Of course that all depends on what you are able to do right now from a financial standpoint and whatnot. I know you have some medical problems so what I say may be easier said than done.

If all you have to do is swap the MAFS for the L-MAF and have James tune it then things will go pretty quickly and the truck will not be down for long. At the very least have James shoot you a starter tune that will get you close with that L-MAF if you absolutely NEED to drive it and cannot afford the full tuning yet.

 

[Turdle]

Rob, I think you are correct.
I actually just need to do 2 things-get a 4" air filter and weld my wideband bung in. I can re tune when I change the exhaust. At least this will eliminate the maf from the transmission issue.

 

[CDW6212R]

Does that wideband O2 sensor have two outputs, one for the OEM O2 signal. Can you install it in place of the left front O2 sensor for tuning? That could save you from having to do the exhaust work now.

 

[chriswells78]

Chris what you suggest doing is just a guessing game. I suggest against doing that as Jon's AFR's will likely be way off. Not a safe thing to do.

What you say makes no sense or you don't understand what I am saying.

Simply replace the MAF sensor one for one and recalibrate the MAF through the tune to match his injectors. His AFR should be the same as it was with the other brand of MAF.

This was also assuming that the vehicle was already tuned. From Jon's most recent post, I see that that it is not tuned yet.

 

[rocket 5979]

What you say makes no sense or you don't understand what I am saying.

Simply replace the MAF sensor one for one and recalibrate the MAF through the tune to match his injectors. His AFR should be the same as it was with the other brand of MAF.

This was also assuming that the vehicle was already tuned. From Jon's most recent post, I see that that it is not tuned yet.

I took your post to mean that you were telling Jon to bolt the L-MAF's electronics into this other Pro-M MAF housing. Correct? I assume by "tuner" in your previous post that you were referring to just the device itself and not James. That approach would not work from a drop-in and go standpoint. Tuning would be required even if the housings happened to be very similar in cross section.

 

[chriswells78]

It would work fine, just as replacing your stock Ford Hitachi MAF sensor with a generic sensor from any auto parts store as long as the calibration was set to the proper injector size.

 

[CDW6212R]

I also meant that for just the purpose of confirming the operation of the MAF sensor. A stock vehicle will drive without a MAF connected, do you think Jon could?

 

[rocket 5979]

It would work fine, just as replacing your stock Ford Hitachi MAF sensor with a generic sensor from any auto parts store as long as the calibration was set to the proper injector size.

Chris you are underinformed. It is not that simple to just stick electronics from one MAFS into another housing and throw a value file at it and call it good. It may get things somewhat close but it will not be dialed in fully at all. I sure as heck would not trust it in any of my engines without doing a few logs to see where my fuel trims are at as well as my WOT AFR. It is not as simple as you assume. There is no drop down menu for real professional level custom tuning.

Also, these stock Ford meters are not calibrated to a particular injector size. They have their own flow dynamics based upon MAFS housing cross section, and airspeed through the housing. Airspeed is determined by the MAFS trying to keep a wire at a constant temperature by pushing current through it. The more air passing by the electronics the cooler the filament wants to get and the more voltage is needed to keep the wire at a constant temperature. The MAFS then reads this reference voltage and outputs its signal to the PCM accordingly. Put the sensor into another housing with different flow dynamics and you will have a different voltage output at a given airflow. The electronics work hand in hand with the actual MAFS housing know area (cross section) to be able to transfer simple airspeed into calculated air volume. The "calibration" that you like to throw around is taken care of solely in the PCM in the MAF Transfer Function. The pre-calibrated MAFS were a ghetto attempt to essentially rape the MAFS signals into some rudimentary form of compliance within an injector range before real PCM tuning was able to be accomplished. Still, while allot of the Fox Mustang and EEC-IV guys swear by it, it is not even close to the proper way to do things. Now with modern technology and modern MAFS we are able to tune like the factory did it. Much less problems. MUCH MUCH greater driveability which is due to more consistent MAF signals rather than the herky jerky signals you get from the precaled units of the past, like Pro-M. Don't take my words for it for those results. Take a look at any given EEC-IV "tuning" based site or Fox Body stang site and compare the driveability problems they have compared to us fella's using modern technology. My Explorer runs a BA2800 MAFS and 60 lb injectors amongst many many other things and drives and operates damn near like stock. Take a look at those other guys using that old precalibrated MAFS technology and you will see tons of them having so many problems with stuff like driveability with bigger injectors that they just assume you cannot run them in a street vehicle. Just not the case. Step into the modern day, stop believing all the old tech advice. While it was the better option years ago it is not even close anymore. Would you rather use a wooden wagon wheel on your car or a modern radial tire? Both work, but one works one hell of allot better.

Chris it is apparent that you are new to tuning so I do not expect you to have a working knowledge of all the in's and out's of how the MAFS systems truly work just yet. Once you have been around the block for a few more years then hopefully you will see what I am talking about and realize that you should be a little more humble in here. You are new to this stuff I am not. People such as myself or James actually know this stuff and work with it on a daily basis both on our own vehicles as well as customer cars. Show a little respect.

 

[rocket 5979]

I also meant that for just the purpose of confirming the operation of the MAF sensor. A stock vehicle will drive without a MAF connected, do you think Jon could?

I have tried unplugging the MAFS before for testing purposes on some vehicles. Sometimes it is a viable option. He could try it, but I do not think it would give a good control for his testing purposes here in this case. Either way it couldn't hurt.

 

[CDW6212R]

My thought was because he is after two symptoms, the trans 3rd/4th issue is very odd. The idle should be affected in some way, but without pulling data from the PCM/O2, we'd be guessing. Night,