Question regarding front axles

[koda2000]

okay, so i'm changing the front axle seals on my '00 AWD Mountaineer and i need some input from you 4WD/AWD gurus.

the first axle i removed was the long one on the passenger side. i had noticed that before removing it i was able to wiggle the axle slightly at the seal. once i pulled the axle and the old seal out, i was surprised that there wasn't a bearing behind the seal. next i removed the short driver's side axle and seal and found a bearing behind that seal. so am my missing something?

we've owned the truck for about 8 months now and have probably put about 8,000 miles on it before the seals started leaking. i would think that if the axle bearing was missing on the passenger side it would have been leaking 8 months ago. it wasn't. while taking things apart, i saw no sign that anyone had been in the axle recently.

 

[jremington59]

The rock auto site shows one in their listing. I guess I should have thought of this when I changed my cv on that side about 10,000 miles ago and there wasn't one there.

http://www.rockauto.com/

 

[koda2000]

The rock auto site shows one in their listing. I guess I should have thought of this when I changed my cv on that side about 10,000 miles ago and there wasn't one there.

http://www.rockauto.com/

hmmm, Autozone also shows a bearing for the passenger side, so i bought one (Timken #5707), however it does not fit the axle or in the axle tube. the more i think about it, i'm 99% convinced that no one has ever replace the seal on the passenger side. it was old, rusty and crusty and i had to collapse it with a chisel to get it out. in looking at the axle you can clearly see where the seal rides and although there appears to be a place on the axle where a bearing might ride, there's no indication that there was ever one there. on the driver's side axle you can clearly see where the bearing rides.

as you didn't have a bearing on your passenger side either, maybe there's not supposed to be one. weird, you'd thing the axle would flop around in the seal and cause it to leak, but there's no indication/witness marks on the axle that might make you think that's ever actually happened.

anyway, i installed the new driver's side axle seal, replaced the axle and installed the new shock absorber, refilled the diff with 75W140. it turns out i also need to replace the outer axle seal (to the hub) and had to order it, so i'll pick that up tomorrow when i go buy a new tire. if i had the outer seal i could have wrapped this up today, but tomorrow's good enough. then on to the t-case seal and parking brake adjustment.

 

[koda2000]

The rock auto site shows one in their listing. I guess I should have thought of this when I changed my cv on that side about 10,000 miles ago and there wasn't one there.

http://www.rockauto.com/

hmmm, Autozone also shows a bearing for the passenger side, so i bought one (Timken #5707), however it does not fit the axle or in the axle tube. the more i think about it, i'm 99% convinced that no one has ever replace the seal on the passenger side. it was old, rusty and crusty and i had to collapse it with a chisel to get it out. in looking at the axle you can clearly see where the seal rides and although there appears to be a place on the axle where a bearing might ride, there's no indication that there was ever one there. on the driver's side axle you can clearly see where the bearing rides.

as you didn't have a bearing on your passenger side either, maybe there's not supposed to be one. weird, you'd thing the axle would flop around in the seal and cause it to leak, but there's no indication/witness marks on the axle that might make you think that's ever actually happened.

anyway, i installed the new driver's side axle seal, replaced the axle and installed the new shock absorber, refilled the diff with 75W140. it turns out i also need to replace the outer axle seal (to the hub) and had to order it, so i'll pick that up tomorrow when i go buy a new tire. if i had the outer seal i could have wrapped this up today, but tomorrow's good enough. then on to the t-case seal and parking brake adjustment.

 

[jremington59]

I also had an old crusty seal there with no bearing. I wonder if it rides inside the inner shaft. Did you notice that on the pass side? And what do you mean by outer hub seal?

 

[koda2000]

I also had an old crusty seal there with no bearing. I wonder if it rides inside the inner shaft. Did you notice that on the pass side? And what do you mean by outer hub seal?

there appears to be a tube inside the passenger side axle tube. maybe it acts like a bushing, but like i said there where no witness marks on the axle.

on the end of the cv axles, where the splined end goes through the hub, there's a seal. i imagine it's purpose is to keep crap out of the hub bearing. one of mine was in two pieces when i removed the hub. i'm not real sure what the seal looks like, as AZ didn't show a picture of it (just a representation). they also list an inner seal, but i have no idea what that is or where it goes. maybe something for inside the hub?

 

[koda2000]

curses, foiled again! the axle seal i ordered from AZ for the passenger side is incorrect. Timken #710248. i've looked on several other sites and the only one i see that appears to be correct is a National #710248. a little weird that it's the same number but a different seal, but whatever. i've got one on order from O'Reilly's for tomorrow afternoon.

 

[jremington59]

The only seal I know of is the one that keeps the gear oil from running out of the diff. I have a timkin seal sitting on my desk that they swore was the right one. And it isn't, but I didn't bother sending it back because of the low cost. And laziness. The part number for the wrong one is 710065. There's two choices and that's not the right one, lol. I should add that I'm giving the part number for an explorer. Wouldn't the Mountaineer be the same?

 

[jremington59]

I just looked on Rock Auto and both your Timkin and National PN should be 710428 for the right and 710429 for the left.

 

[delexploder]

Gettin ready to do the same thing real soon, gonna swap out front in the mounty cause its howling, im gonna use a from rear I scored out of a 2000 sohc that only had 68,000 on it, seals are cheap while its out.

 

[koda2000]

I just looked on Rock Auto and both your Timkin and National PN should be 710428 for the right and 710429 for the left.

Yes, the new Timken left-side seal was fine, and the Timken and National part numbers for the right-side are the same, but the seals sure aren't. The correct right-side seal should go inside the axle tube, have sealant already on it and have a flange to stop it from going in to far (like the left side). The Timken AZ sold me was totally different looking. Maybe it was boxed incorrectly, but it's a mute point now as i'm returning the Timken and getting the National tomorrow afternoon. Hopefully i can the front end buttoned up tomorrow, as i've lost a 1/2 day.

 

[koda2000]

Gettin ready to do the same thing real soon, gonna swap out front in the mounty cause its howling, im gonna use a from rear I scored out of a 2000 sohc that only had 68,000 on it, seals are cheap while its out.

are the gear ratios the same? the 4.0's are usually 4:10's right?

 

[delexploder]

Yea it was a xlt with 3:73s ,I might try to hold out till tax time when I can get a set of the avm hubs and the ranger parts, I agree awd sucks and pondered making it 2wd but it dose snow here every few years and when it dose its usually a good amount

 

[koda2000]

so i finally figured out my passenger side axle seal issue. someone (quite possibly me) transposed the part number. it's 710428 and i ended up with 701248 somehow. well, i found the correct seal in stock at Car Quest, so at least i didn't have to wait another day. It turns AZ's computer is wrong, so it wasn't me after all.

everything on the front end is back together with the new axle seals, new tire and new front shocks (and yes i remembered to fill the diff with oil). if i had more energy i'd have taken the truck off the jack-stands and test drove it, but that will have to wait until tomorrow. my daughter has given me until 6 PM tomorrow to finish up the t-case seal, fluid change and parking brake adjustments. i sure hope these new seals don't leak. we'll see.

 

[koda2000]

ok, truck's back on all four wheels again. drove it about 30 miles and no axle seal leaks! i adjusted the new parking brakes this morning and fixed the "BRAKE" light switch for it the instrument cluster. then i got lazy and drove down to my friends shop to replace the t-case rear output seal and changed the t-case fluid using his lift. so now it goes back to my daughter this evening, running like a scalded dog. i imagine the next time i may see it is around Thanksgiving for an oil change. parts/supplies (including a new tire) were just under $200 and of course the labor was free.

 

[delexploder]

Glad it all worked out for ya ,

 

[koda2000]

Glad it all worked out for ya ,

me too. every once in a while things go the way they're supposed to.

 

[jremington59]

Congrats. I sure hope your Daughter knows how lucky she is....

 

[imp]

No Bearing?

me too. every once in a while things go the way they're supposed to.

But, did we ever resolve the lack of a support bearing on the passenger side, inside the diff. housing, behind the seal? Seems the axle shaft supported only at it's inside end by the spline itself, would in time "wallow" out the spline due to the weight of the inboard C-V. Did I miss something? imp

 

[koda2000]

But, did we ever resolve the lack of a support bearing on the passenger side, inside the diff. housing, behind the seal? Seems the axle shaft supported only at it's inside end by the spline itself, would in time "wallow" out the spline due to the weight of the inboard C-V. Did I miss something? imp

apparently there isn't one. doesn't make sense to me either, but jremington 59 reported not finding a bearing in his passenger side and no one else responded. there really doesn't appear to be room for one. as long as it's not leaking, not making noise and drives okay, i'm happy.