Questions on Remote Turbo 5.0L in a Ranger....

After browsing around for quite a while in search of answers I finally came across what I needed: someone that has already done the remote job on a 5.0 Explorer... I own a Ranger that we've converted over to the EFI 5.0 from the Explorer, and now I'm in search of more power, and need a few questions answered. This pickup is my daily driver; it needs to be dependable. I don't strip race, but I don't turn down the "Friday night stoplight run" either. Flamers please go somewhere else; I really need educated and solid advice:

Forced Induction definitely seemed like a good step, but after hunting down multiple superchargers, I don't want to spend that much. Running a remote turbo appears far more feasible, as I have more than enough access to build a large part of it (tubing bends and whatnot); what I can't build I can get at dealer cost/super-cheap-nonetheless.

First and foremost: what turbo? The most popular response seems to be the HX or HY35 from the mid/late 90's Cummins; here lately I've seen complaints that this ISN'T the most effective option. I've also toyed with the idea of running twin turbo's, like a pair from a 1.8T Jetta or similar. However, I know certain turbo's have pieces of manifold molded in, and therefore won't work. The way my exhaust is done I have lots of room and the piping would be easy to work in for a twin turbo setup. But, in the interest of efficiency and reliability, the best option is _______?

Most superchargers for the Explorers are pushing about 6-7psi boost; 6.5psi wastegate ok? 6psi max boost seems decent for the crank and bottom end in a 'xplorer 5.0. Also, does the HX/Y35 run an internal wastegate like Jetta's and whatnot, or do I need a seperate wastegate? From the sounds of it I need to run a seperate wastegate to keep from overboosting. At this point I'm leaning towards a seperate wastegate as a reassurance.

Injectors or no injectors? I've read that the 19# stock injectors will work. "Will work" doesn't satisfy me though... am I going to be lean at full throttle or will it be ok? We have some good hills in Idaho and I don't need to be going lean partway up. Will the MAF be ok or does it need changed out as well? The Lightning/Mustang MAF seems a popular option; if I'm changing injectors then this might as well go too. Being my daily driver, I don't want to worry about having a lean meltdown.

Now... the computer: my Ranger is pre-OBD2, where the Explorer is OBD2. As such, we had to bypass things like the Evap test for the gas tank and whatnot; the computer also still thinks the truck is an automatic with an automatic transfer case. (We live in the mud and snow; I prefer manual hubs and a manual t-case. I also prefer pulling with an standard over an AT. Please no flaming here... will it work or no?) More or less, will the computer need reflashed or not? I saw a dyno sheet put up by the owner of the turbo'd AWD Explorer that said the 5.0 on the wheel dyno (not the AWD Explorer, but something similar?) was an Explorer block, turbocharged, but running stock tune without a chip.... at 636hp. Will the stock tune with this computer work with a forced induction app? Will anything we had to bypass go haywire because of the boost? I've kicked it around a while now and have loosely decided on the stock tune being ok as long as I have the right air/fuel mods to keep it happy. Correct or not?

From what I've found the heads will flow enough; the valvetrain and bottom end should be sufficient for ~6psi, correct? Again, its my daily driver and I don't want to have to worry of splitting a block, busting a crank, bending a rod, etc. I'm not shooting for any more than like 450hp ABSOLUTELY MAX. 350 would be great.

Also, (I know this is a total "newbie" question, but nonetheless..) redline on a 'splorer 5.0 is ? I'm hesitant to run above about 4500 because it sounds 'tight', yet dyno sheets are showing 5500+.

I'm sure I've left things out but I don't have time to reread it right now... be back later.

 

[scruff]

*deep breath*

Let me start by saying I am gearing up also to put a turbo on my Ex motor. I have done a lot of research. I have a brand new turbo from a 7.3 powerstroke, which I am told will spool early and make easily enough power. It was cheap on ebay because it was incorrectly advertised and I recognized the pictures.

Join the forums at turbomustangs.com, there is a huge amount of info on there.

From one source or another.

A stock Ex block can only reliably hold up to around 550 hp. More or less, but evetually it'll break. Revs kill them the fastest. It takes around 10 psi and 6000 rpm to get up over these numbers. But you already knew that.

A stock Ex motor will only run to around 5500 before valve float happens, anyone here will confirm this. Also the cam isn't big enough for higher revs.

A stock Ex motor will take about 7 or 8 psi before you need an intercooler, but that about it.
I would start with a 4 or 5 PSI wastegate and allow higher from there.
I plan to use the internal wastegate my turbo has but modded to 38 or 40 mm.

19 lb injectors will have your engine toast very fast. They barely flow enough fuel for the stock power, I have used calculators online and peoples advice and looked at what most run to say that 30 lb would be enough for a low boost setup (under 5 psi) 36 for up to 8 psi and 42 lb if you want to make really good power and go over 8 psi.
You would need to get a MAF calibrated for whichever injectors you use. Go with a reputable company for the MAF and get a calibration sheet.
You can buy these as sets with injectors.

Stock throttle body would be fine, forced induction means you won't need to go bigger.

With such a low HP expectation a twin turbo setup would be a waste of time and plumbing. Read Justins thread very carefully and consider copying his setup - it's obviously well proven.

The powerstroke turbo like I have presents it's own problems.
They spin backwards for one, use different flanges and so on. BUT they're cheap, and parts can be bought straight from Ford. I am also a Ford in a Ford nut and trying to keep everything on my rod Factory Ford.

If I was you I'd go for a Turbo like Justins, no intercooler, 36 lb injectors and a good MAF- set up to run 4 psi every day and 6 to 7 when you want to have fun. That setup would easily make 350 to 460

I don't know anything about your computer, but make sure whatever you do, spend as much time and effort on the tune as you do on the rest of the setup.

 

[rocket 5979]

You would need to get a MAF calibrated for whichever injectors you use. Go with a reputable company for the MAF and get a calibration sheet.
You can buy these as sets with injectors.

I don't know anything about your computer, but make sure whatever you do, spend as much time and effort on the tune as you do on the rest of the setup.

I agree with most of all that you said except for one thing. I highly suggest that he not go with a precalibrated MAFS like what the Pro-M's used to be. I have logges many of those systems and the MAF counts look jumpier than a damn EKG of a 85 year old's heart. Go with a metered proven system like a used L-MAF or maybe even SCT BA series meter. They are much more repeatable then those "precaled" meters are.

It looks like you are going to have to get a chip to tune this thing. Since you are running OBD-I you cannot reflash it as the vehicle doesn't have a port for that. You also will be in a unique situation for logging this vehicle. You will want to check two things with your existing PCM. The first will be what box code it is. Make sure that it is actually supported by SCT. Though they claim they support all 1986-Present vehicles it is not true. Also while you have your PCM apart take a picture of the circuit board and post it here. I will be able to tell you if your rear J3 dataport is enabled which will allow you to use a chip on your PCM. Likely it is enabled as most of those J3 PCM problems popped up around 1998-2000 timeframe. You will have to hook directly to your sensors instead of into one central port like the OBD-II vehicles have. Whomever tunes your vehicle will take care of this for you.

I also recommend a higher flow fuel pump too. Throw a Walbro GSS342 in there and you will be fine for fuel at your intended power level.

 

[V8RangerBoy]

K. First of all, thanks a ton. This is precisely what I was looking for.

Ironically, I snagged a Mod Mustang magazine the other day just for kicks, and as I was glancing through it earlier I found an article I hadn't seen before, which happened to be all about mod engines and EFI for it. After running through the brief calculation for a 5.0L with 19# injectors, the results were pitiful. These injectors are good for about 190hp on a good day for a boosted motor. 30# injectors didn't fair amazingly better: good to about 300hp on a boosted build.

After that revelation I did more digging around and came up with a more "finalized" build. At this point I'm looking for at least a 36# set of injectors; preferably a 42# just in case. I'm hunting a wastegate with a 6# blowoff...

 

[rocket 5979]

K. First of all, thanks a ton. This is precisely what I was looking for.

Ironically, I snagged a Mod Mustang magazine the other day just for kicks, and as I was glancing through it earlier I found an article I hadn't seen before, which happened to be all about mod engines and EFI for it. After running through the brief calculation for a 5.0L with 19# injectors, the results were pitiful. These injectors are good for about 190hp on a good day for a boosted motor. 30# injectors didn't fair amazingly better: good to about 300hp on a boosted build.

After that revelation I did more digging around and came up with a more "finalized" build. At this point I'm looking for at least a 36# set of injectors; preferably a 42# just in case. I'm hunting a wastegate with a 6# blowoff...

Here's where I'm stuck - where to get the computer flashed. After I sat and thought a long while, I realized we changed nothing when we fooled the computer for anything in the OBD2 system. At least nothing that matters here. So, with that, where is a good place to go to find a set of injectors, a MAF, and the cal. sheet? Basically, where do I find these "sets" you mentioned?

Go with Tial for your wastegate. 38mm will be just fine. They are quality pieces.

Read above for answers to your MAFS and tuning questions.

 

[justin146]

If I did it over again, I would just buy the right turbo to begin with. I would buy a 60-62mm turbo with a P-trim wheel and .58 or .68 housing. I finally found a turbo that seems to work great(the HX35), but only after trial and error. This turbo would satisfy your goals though- it is good to roughly 400-450WHP on a 5.0. I plan on upgrading my compressor to a HX40 unit which will be good to about 500whp+ with much lower IATs. I would not go with a HY35 or the newer HE351 Holsets because they have smaller compressors.

My turbo has a wastegate, but it isnt sufficient for the flow of your engine. I have mine blocked off and I am using a 38mm gate. You will also definately need larger injectors. Depending on the year of your donors wiring harness, you can use take off Lightning or 03-04 Cobra injectors. I would also recommend getting the MAF from one of the vehicles. You are going to need a tune anyway so there is no need for a calibrated MAF(like stated above)

When James finishes tuning my truck (if we ever get some free time) I will let you know just how well the HX35 works.

 

[rocket 5979]

If I did it over again, I would just buy the right turbo to begin with. I would buy a 60-62mm turbo with a P-trim wheel and .58 or .68 housing. I finally found a turbo that seems to work great(the HX35), but only after trial and error. This turbo would satisfy your goals though- it is good to roughly 400-450WHP on a 5.0. I plan on upgrading my compressor to a HX40 unit which will be good to about 500whp+ with much lower IATs.

My turbo has a wastegate, but it isnt sufficient for the flow of your engine. I have mine blocked off and I am using a 38mm gate. You will also definately need larger injectors. Depending on the year of your donors wiring harness, you can use take off Lightning or 03-04 Cobra injectors. I would also recommend getting the MAF from one of the vehicles. You are going to need a tune anyway so there is no need for a calibrated MAF.

When James finishes tuning my truck (if we ever get some free time) I will let you know just how well the HX35 works. I would not go with a HY35 or the newer HE351 Holsets because they have smaller compressors.

Garrett/Precision 60-1 with a .63 turbine housing will work quite well for your application.

 

[V8RangerBoy]

The HX35 is of high appeal to me simply because my dad owns/runs the biggest car shop in my hometown, and can get parts super-easy and for next to nothing. Being able to pull the turbo off of a blown Cummins is great; what (if anything) would I find the Garrett 60-1 on?

 

[justin146]

The HX35 is of high appeal to me simply because my dad owns/runs the biggest car shop in my hometown, and can get parts super-easy and for next to nothing. Being able to pull the turbo off of a blown Cummins is great; what (if anything) would I find the Garrett 60-1 on?

You wont find the 60-1 stock on anything. You can get a new Master Power 60-1 for about $550 though.

 

[V8RangerBoy]

I agree with most of all that you said except for one thing. I highly suggest that he not go with a precalibrated MAFS like what the Pro-M's used to be. I have logges many of those systems and the MAF counts look jumpier than a damn EKG of a 85 year old's heart. Go with a metered proven system like a used L-MAF or maybe even SCT BA series meter. They are much more repeatable then those "precaled" meters are.

It looks like you are going to have to get a chip to tune this thing. Since you are running OBD-I you cannot reflash it as the vehicle doesn't have a port for that. You also will be in a unique situation for logging this vehicle. You will want to check two things with your existing PCM. The first will be what box code it is. Make sure that it is actually supported by SCT. Though they claim they support all 1986-Present vehicles it is not true. Also while you have your PCM apart take a picture of the circuit board and post it here. I will be able to tell you if your rear J3 dataport is enabled which will allow you to use a chip on your PCM. Likely it is enabled as most of those J3 PCM problems popped up around 1998-2000 timeframe. You will have to hook directly to your sensors instead of into one central port like the OBD-II vehicles have. Whomever tunes your vehicle will take care of this for you.

I also recommend a higher flow fuel pump too. Throw a Walbro GSS342 in there and you will be fine for fuel at your intended power level.

K. First off, where to find an L-MAF?

From this post, I'm getting the gist that I DON'T need to change injectors, but instead just beef up the pump to get more fuel pressure? I wouldn't be so leery of injectors if I knew more about how the systems were bypassed. I BELIEVE that basically all that happened regarding fuel is the fuel tank always reads as full to the PCM so that Evap. can't run.

Is a Walbro GSS342 easy to come by for a Ranger pickup? I don't have time to go searching right now If it's not easy to come by, would using an additional inline pump add the pressure I need?

 

[410Fortune]

every single time this topic comes up I try to scrape up some $$$$ that was planned for other projects....

Drool on your turbos

 

[V8RangerBoy]

<img src="http://img120.imageshack.us/img120/5940/pa030064oo4.jpg">

Hopefully this is clear enough to see what you need. Thanks a ton!

html'ing the picture in didnt work copy paste the link into the url bar. If you need more pictures or the codes from the box I have those too.

Also, regarding the chipping, I can't see anywhere on the SCT website where it says whether or not my computer/box code is supported...

I Google'd Walbro GSS342 and I got: http://www.nolimitmotorsport.com/prod/GSS342-400-847
App chart reads it for a 95-99 Eclipse. Will it work?

 

[justin146]

THe GSS342 is a direct drop in pump for most Ford applications. You will definately need larger injectors- The only way around it would be if you had a returnless fuel system and used an FMU. This is just a band-aid though.

LMAF= Lightning MAF, and they come off of newer Lightning trucks(look for the 90mm version). The meter that is on the 03-04 Mustang Cobra is the same meter. Do a little shopping and you should be able to score one for ~$50.

 

[rocket 5979]

THe GSS342 is a direct drop in pump for most Ford applications. You will definately need larger injectors- The only way around it would be if you had a returnless fuel system and used an FMU. This is just a band-aid though.

LMAF= Lightning MAF, and they come off of newer Lightning trucks(look for the 90mm version). The meter that is on the 03-04 Mustang Cobra is the same meter. Do a little shopping and you should be able to score one for ~$50.

Rangerboy, I think the reason why no one mentioned the injectors is because it sounded like you already knew that you needed bigger ones. You definitely will need bigger injectors. Also you need to look on your PCM itself as the Box code will be on it. Your box code is in large letters and numbers, usually 4 digits long.

Justin, mechanical FMU's are meant for return fuel vehicles, not returnless. All a FMU does is "pinch" off the return flow from the FPR to the fuel tank. It sends that additional pressure through the injectors. Even if he were to employ an FMU (I do not advise it as they are a halfassed way to add more fuel) I would still suggest an injector upgrade.

 

[V8RangerBoy]

Rangerboy, I think the reason why no one mentioned the injectors is because it sounded like you already knew that you needed bigger ones. You definitely will need bigger injectors. Also you need to look on your PCM itself as the Box code will be on it. Your box code is in large letters and numbers, usually 4 digits long.

Justin, mechanical FMU's are meant for return fuel vehicles, not returnless. All a FMU does is "pinch" off the return flow from the FPR to the fuel tank. It sends that additional pressure through the injectors. Even if he were to employ an FMU (I do not advise it as they are a halfassed way to add more fuel) I would still suggest an injector upgrade.

K. Yeah I was pretty sure I would go with bigger injectors. I have the box code, I'm just not sure where (if anywhere) to look it up on their site.

Something did catch my eye today though. Some of the Explorer supercharger 6-7psi kits DON'T run bigger injectors or any type of chip; they kick up the fuel pump, and as mentioned, run an FMU. The basis of forced induction is the same; turbo or s/c makes no difference. These kits obviously wouldn't sell if word got out of underfueling and thus, meltdowns....

 

[V8RangerBoy]

Also, I'm anywhere from 3000-7000' above sea level; I know I do have SOME leeway in not having to run quite as large of injector, but nonetheless, I obviously don't want to blow it up. But, we have alot of hills, and spots where I'm pretty well into the throttle for decent amounts of time. Like any human being, the cheaper I can get away with doing this the better, but I refuse to cut corners and kill it.

 

[justin146]

Justin, mechanical FMU's are meant for return fuel vehicles, not returnless. All a FMU does is "pinch" off the return flow from the FPR to the fuel tank. It sends that additional pressure through the injectors. Even if he were to employ an FMU (I do not advise it as they are a halfassed way to add more fuel) I would still suggest an injector upgrade.

Shoot- I got ahead of myself and typed while I was thinking. I meant to say return. I guess I have typed returnless so much here lately that when I try to type return my fingers just keep going

 

[justin146]

Something did catch my eye today though. Some of the Explorer supercharger 6-7psi kits DON'T run bigger injectors or any type of chip; they kick up the fuel pump, and as mentioned, run an FMU. The basis of forced induction is the same; turbo or s/c makes no difference. These kits obviously wouldn't sell if word got out of underfueling and thus, meltdowns....

The Powerdyne kit uses an FMU on return style fuel system and it increases fuel pressure with boost(like Robert explained above). On their kits for returnless Explorers, they use a kind of hybrid FMU setup. It puts a loop in the fuel system with a booster pump anf FMU to increase the fuel pressure.

 

[ribs2234]

turboo

where would you go about getting a turbo manifold/pedistol?

 

[justin146]

where would you go about getting a turbo manifold/pedistol?

mine is a remote turbo- check out www.ststurbo.com