R134a in a 1993 Explorer R12 system

[InTitusvilleFL]

What would happen if I used R134a in a stock 1993 Explorer R12 system?

 

[Mbrooks420]

You’ll probably ruin the system. They use oils that aren’t compatible. You need to add R12, which can still be found and used, or entirely evacuate the system and retrofit it ( different orifice tube and probably the drier) and then add r134.

 

[Dora 1993]

R12 and R134a systems have different ports on them to connect hoses to as well. If you can fit one of those cans of 134a from the store on one of your ports it’s already been converted. It’s probably been converted already unless the AC hasn’t worked in a LONG time and nobody ever fixed it.

 

[InTitusvilleFL]

Doesn't the oil go through whole system and up in to the evaporator, so evacuate the system won't get all the old oil out. I know you can buy adapter fitting for the old system to use R134a connections.

 

[Mbrooks420]

You’ll need to drain the oil out of the system. Why not just recharge it with R12?

 

[shucker1]

R-134 won't cool as well in an R-12 designed system without changes.

The operating pressures are different.

Like mentioned above the oil is actually in every part of the system so everything has to be taken apart and flushed and the Orifice tube changed out. This would include a fresh charge of R-134 based oil.

 

[Dora 1993]

R12 is really expensive if you can even get your hands on it. Better to just convert if it hasn't been done already.

 

[shucker1]

If you need to save cost Propane will work too but its not advised....

 

[RustyMacintosh]

Envro-Safe alternative that probably is flavored propane chk amazon--- I've used it as a filler on a R12 and R134 system.

https://www.amazon.com/Case-Enviro-...ds=auto+freon&qid=1550233805&s=gateway&sr=8-8

 

[boominXplorer]

To use r134 in a r12 system you only put about two-thirds of a charge in there. It will never be as cold as it was with r12 but it will be close.

The new YF freon in new vehicles is basically propane.

 

[shucker1]

The new YF freon in new vehicles is basically propane.

Hopefully without the BTU content? I go to read up on that.

Propane does work but if you get in a front end wreck there could be a problem.

 

[boominXplorer]

Hopefully without the BTU content? I go to read up on that.

Propane does work but if you get in a front end wreck there could be a problem.

1234yf is definitely flammable and I wouldn't want it in my vehicle. Then again I've drove a ton of vehicles with the takata airbags.

 

[shucker1]

Then again I've drove a ton of vehicles with the takata airbags.

Yea Buddy!

Just got the recall done on my daughters 2011 Fusion with those things....

Only took them 2-1\2 years to get to it.

 

[Mbrooks420]

I wouldn’t be afraid of the minuscule amount of propane in an Ac system. I mean, you’re sitting on 15 gallons of fuel at all times.

R12 bottles can be had relatively cheap.

R12 freon

$75 for three cans seems to be better deal than converting. You’ll get colder AC, and if the system still has some pressure you’ll likely just need a charge and some oil. No need to mess with the evaporator or orifice tube.

 

[shucker1]

I wouldn’t be afraid of the minuscule amount of propane in an Ac system. I mean, you’re sitting on 15 gallons of fuel at all times.

Point taken.

However how many minor front end impacts rupture the fuel tank?

 

[RustyMacintosh]

R12 can still be bought on the open market. My brother brought back from Mexico 100lbs of it last summer. Yeah, it might be piss water, considering Mexico but what the heck. I've used EnviroSafe, works pretty good so far, I am not concerned about the volatility of it. Front end crashes tend to splash gasoline about. A few ounces of propane is not going to send everyone to hell. OK, maybe an ex-wife and the lawyer

 

[boominXplorer]

I've taken this thread way off course but here's another reason why I like 134a the best..... The price!

 

[974X4BLACKSPORT]

Dont skimp when rebuilding your automobiles a/c system, do it right, get a new compressor, filter/dryer, orifice/expansion valve, change the condenser if needed, chances are in an old car the condenser has take a beating over the years being in front of the radiator. New o-rings, flush out the evaporator and all other existing hoses and then vacuum down and check for leaks, re-charge with 134a, it will work great, done it many times, I bought my own vacuum pump just to do one of my cars, worth every penny.

 

[masospaghetti]

Another perspective here...

I've revived many old A/C systems that used R12 and it's true that the performance from R-134a will not be as good. Mostly it seems that there needs to be more airflow through the condenser to get a good level of performance since R-134a is not as efficient as R-12.

However I would still recommend sticking with R-134a compared to R12, or propane, or any other alternative. R-134a is cheap and a basic conversion is also easy. Of course a complete conversion will yield the best performance (new everything) but this is not always practical in an old vehicle.

At a minimum, you need to find your leaks and fix them; add the new adapters to the service ports; replace the accumulator and add a new oil charge, vacuum the system down and add about 80% of the original charge in R-134a. The old R-12 mineral oil won't hurt anything, it will settle out somewhere in the system. There's no reason to replace the compressor if it is not leaking.

The alternatives and/or propane will contaminate the system and no A/C shop will touch your stuff after you do this. IMO, it's not worth it.

 

[masospaghetti]

I've taken this thread way off course but here's another reason why I like 134a the best..... The price!

View attachment 167708

True that! If you watch for deals on Amazon you can get 12 packs of R-134a cans for cheap ($3-4 per can). Otherwise Walmart has good prices on R-134a, much better than the parts store.

I tried one of those 30 lb drums once. Never again. Used it for one charge, a couple months later the can was empty -- the rest had leaked out.