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R37, IFS gear box install

So I will be doing my 5.0 swap soon and want to take care of this other problem which has been plaguing my 35s and I for some time now...rack 'n pinion

I really like the way Toyota did their IFS and am considering trying to mimic this. What I like is that it keeps all the steering components up out of the way while adding the strength of a gearbox.

131_0509_toy_10_z.jpg


I have done some searching and cannot find anyone who may have done this before. If you have or know someone who has, pics would greatly be appreciated.

I have also heard that Nissan may have this same type of setup but thats going to require more searching. :rolleyes:
 


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r37ribution

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Here is another pretty cool pic of how the 'Yota steering works...
131_0509_toy_02_z.jpg
 




'97 V8

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Why don't you just do a solid axle swap and rid yourself of all the issues you are having. I think it would be possible with some creativity.
 




IZwack

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Here is another pretty cool pic of how the 'Yota steering works...
131_0509_toy_02_z.jpg
That is also how Chevy did the previous generation Blazer (before the Trail-Blazer) -- I'm sure Chevy did the same in other models too.
Its a steering gear box with an idler-arm setup.
 




Mud Bug 94

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pathfinders had this too i beleive
 




r37ribution

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Why don't you just do a solid axle swap and rid yourself of all the issues you are having. I think it would be possible with some creativity.

Well, in the rare event that I were to make the switch to SAS I would need this gear box installed anyways. I won't be converting anytime soon though, I like the idea of an inferior front suspension. :D

Long term plan is to eventually go with an LT kit in the front, the RCD just gets me there in the mean time cheaper. That and the fact that I wanted the suspension benefits of coils over torsion bars, especially since mine were shot. A byproduct of this was settling all the questions about whether the RCD kit worked or not; which gave me quite a bit of satisfaction since I wanted to know myself and there is now an additional alternative to 2nd gen lifts. You know, the whole benefiting the community thing.

Neways, here is some additional reading on how 'yotas steering works with the IFS gearbox both in a SAS as well as stock - http://128.83.80.200/taco/toysteer.html :edit: this link is a good reference but just a lil quirky so if it doesn't work the 1st time just try it again later.

So if Nissan Pathfinders, Toyota 4Runners and Chevy Blazers all had this IFS gearbox setup. Which would be the strongest? I hear a lot of the SAS guys going with Toyota gearbox and Chevy tie rod ends but the TREs are usualy from a 3/4 ton truck right? I thought the Blazer was a 1/2 ton so that doesn't get my anywhere. I could piece this together I just wonder which gearbox would be most robust.
 








r37ribution

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IZwack

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I hear a lot of the SAS guys going with Toyota gearbox and Chevy tie rod ends but the TREs are usualy from a 3/4 ton truck right? I thought the Blazer was a 1/2 ton so that doesn't get my anywhere. I could piece this together I just wonder which gearbox would be most robust.
I'm using the IFS toyota box :D so I'm biased :D But seriously, you can pretty much use almost any steering gearbox out there as long as it fits - even the first generation Explorer gear box.

My box:
notch_drivers.jpg
 




james t

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All Chevy 4x4 trucks 88-up for sure are this way. Steering box, relay rod, idler arm, tie rods. :)
 




nissanboy

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That setup works but has weaknesses that are much worse than wearing our the inner TRE on a rack and pinion.

Having run a nissan for a few years that has that steering setup the "relay rod" or "center link" has to be imobilized so it can only twist on one plane. The problem there comes from the tie rods pushin up and down on the center link. It will either twist the center link or wear out bushings on the idler arm and pitman arm.

Now you get into problems with moving the weakest link around. Fixes for the steering system have dealt with double shear mounts for the center link where the weak link becomes the sector shaft in teh steerin box and the idler and pitman arms themselves.

Or... you can mount the tie rods to the idler and pitman arms and mount the center link to the arms as well but that leave the tie rods struggling not to bend from being at an angle instead of paralell to the ground.

This steering system can be fairly strong but with beating on it and larger tires you will still wind up wearing out and break parts. IMO you will be putting a lot of time and money toward something that will have the same problems, just in different places.
 




IZwack

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IMO you will be putting a lot of time and money toward something that will have the same problems, just in different places.
But with this setup, it is a lot easier to replace an idler arm or a steering box rather than a rack&pinion unit.

But you do bring up a good point nissanboy, when the idle arm wears out its bushing, the drive home on the highway can be dangerous.

One thing that must be pointed out tho is that the steering links must be the right length and angles or else the system will experience bump steer as the tie-rod links, the lower and upper A-arms travel at different arcs during suspension cycle.
 




r37ribution

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97 and 98 f150 used a similar setup
I wonder how accurate this statement is:
From what I have found all these use the same box.

Ford Power Steering Gearbox. It fits the following models:

1. 1980 - 1996 Ford F-series Trucks, F100-F350 All Models
2. 1988 - 1997 Ford Super Duty F450
3. 1980 - 1997 Ford Bronco and Bronco II
4. 1983 - 1997 Ford Ranger (2WD and 4WD)
5. 1982/3* - 1991 Ford E100-E350 Econoline and vans
6. 1992 - 1995 Ford E100-E350 Econoline and vans up to 5.8L (351) engine
7. 1991 - 1994 Ford Explorer and Mazda Navajo
8. 1994 - 1997 Mazda B2300, B3000, B4000
I found it here: http://www.explorerforum.com/forums/showthread.php?t=115891&page=2
I can't believe an F350 used the same gearbox as a Ranger though...

This steering system can be fairly strong but with beating on it and larger tires you will still wind up wearing out and break parts. IMO you will be putting a lot of time and money toward something that will have the same problems, just in different places.
As long as I break parts which don't require me to pull off my LCA drop down bracket to get to the rack bolts I'll be happy!

The fact that if you punch in '"relay rod" steering' on Google the top search result is a Toyota recall: http://www.4x4wire.com/forums/showflat.php?Cat=&Number=828456&Main=828456
:edit: then again there is a lotta stuff about steering recalls on F150s as well...
 




r37ribution

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Ok I am having a lot of trouble finding anything on a 1997 F150 IFS front. Does anyone have any reading on it? I think I might just take a trip to the yard and have a look...
 




dkchrist

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Check f150s up to about 2003 because the suspension was the same until they swapped to coilovers in 04 on the newest body style which uses a rack and pinion like 2nd gen ex's
 




dkchrist

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look for a copy of the service manual in the forums it should have a description of the front suspension
 




nissanboy

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you can probably do this fairly cheap if you use nissan parts.... find any nissan from 87-03 and take teh idler arm mount and the steering box then use this kit to build a bullet proof steering system.

http://www.purenissan.com/d21_steering.htm

enjoy
 




hatched91

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i have done the 5.0 swap and i used a toyota box. I ordered a custom pitman arm from sky-manufacturing and had it reamed for the chevy draglink TRE which is .040 bigger than the rest of the chevy TRE's. I also had a high pressure custom steering line made to go from the power steering pump to the toyota gear box. They braised on a fitting to the toyota hard line then ran a steel braided line to the pump. I used a combination of the 2nd gen shaft and a aerostar shaft.
 




r37ribution

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Do you have any pics? Have you had any problems with the relay rod? I saw a few recalls on this part of the Yota steering setup.

I called around and found an F150 in a yard, I work 7-'til I'm done' and am having trouble getting over to check it out. I took a look at the setup on a early 90s Chevy Sierra and a Jimmy. The Sierra's Pitman and Idle arms looked pretty beefy. My cousin kept telling me to stick with the F150 idea, he doesn't like the idea of mixing Ford and Chevy parts for some reason.
 


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SkanlaxJMO

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Just be wary with the bushing in the idler arm it can wear quickley, a buddy of mine has a pathfinder with a 4" and a calmini idler arm that wore out in 2 months...twice.
 




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