Rear control arm question

[shane10]

Hi all, just finished up changing out all 4 calipers/brakes/pads, original calipers had nearly 240k on them and were showing some wear.
While I was in the rear I also noticed some pretty significant wear on the upper and lower control arms, I've decided I will swap out the entire UCA unit as they aren't ridiculously expensive and to keep things simple. The rear LCAs are nearly impossible to find and $400+ per side.
I'm planning on removing the LCA entirely and taking it to a shop to get new bushings pressed in, however am a bit confused on which parts to buy.
On rock auto under control arm bushing, the rear lower forward and rear lower rearward bushings are pretty obvious, the confusion comes to the bushing (balljoint?) that connects to the knuckle.
I am seeing rear lower w/ cross axis bushing - More Information for MEVOTECH MK80010
And, rear lower outer balljoint - More Information for DORMAN 531804
Not sure which is the correct part, they both look pretty similar in the pictures.
Can't find much info on here about the rear control arms in general, any info is appreciated
Thanks!

 

[LMHmedchem]

It is always helpful to post the full information about your truck, such as the engine and drive system (2WD, 4WD, AWD). It may not matter but it is a good practice all the same. Just include it in your profile.

If I remember correctly there are three bushings on the lower control arm. There is a forward and rearward where the arm bolts to the frame, and a knuckle bushing where the bottom of the knuckle bolts on.

MOOG Problem Solver K200192 Rear Lower Forward Bushing ($13.30)
MOOG Problem Solver K200191 Rear Lower Rearward Bushing ($13.55)
ACDELCO Professional 45G11090 Rear Lower At Knuckle ($15.02)

I am not sure that I would call the lower outer bushing a ball joint. I would stick with either Moog Problem Solver or ACDelco Professional, but others may have a different opinion.

You can look for videos, but I don't see why you shouldn't be able to install all of these bushings yourself with a ball joint press tool. This is basically a C-clamp on steroids that you can tighten to press parts in or out. They go for about $50 for a kit and I would expect a machine shop to charge you quite a bit more than that. At least they would around here. You can save money and end up with the tool kit as well that you can use for other ball joints and bushings.

The upper control arm probably just needs new bushings and a ball joint which would come to another $50 or so and you can install with the same tool. You have to judge what you are comfortable doing yourself and what you would rather pay someone else to do for you.

As always, check any parts that I have listed and make sure they are correct for your truck. Don't just believe me, or anyone else.

LMHmedchem

 

[shane10]

It is always helpful to post the full information about your truck, such as the engine and drive system (2WD, 4WD, AWD). It may not matter but it is a good practice all the same. Just include it in your profile.

If I remember correctly there are three bushings on the lower control arm. There is a forward and rearward where the arm bolts to the frame, and a knuckle bushing where the bottom of the knuckle bolts on.

MOOG Problem Solver K200192 Rear Lower Forward Bushing ($13.30)
MOOG Problem Solver K200191 Rear Lower Rearward Bushing ($13.55)
ACDELCO Professional 45G11090 Rear Lower At Knuckle ($15.02)

I am not sure that I would call the lower outer bushing a ball joint. I would stick with either Moog Problem Solver or ACDelco Professional, but others may have a different opinion.

You can look for videos, but I don't see why you shouldn't be able to install all of these bushings yourself with a ball joint press tool. This is basically a C-clamp on steroids that you can tighten to press parts in or out. They go for about $50 for a kit and I would expect a machine shop to charge you quite a bit more than that. At least they would around here. You can save money and end up with the tool kit as well that you can use for other ball joints and bushings.

The upper control arm probably just needs new bushings and a ball joint which would come to another $50 or so and you can install with the same tool. You have to judge what you are comfortable doing yourself and what you would rather pay someone else to do for you.

As always, check any parts that I have listed and make sure they are correct for your truck. Don't just believe me, or anyone else.

LMHmedchem

Thank you! I did not even see the Rear lower at knuckle scrolling through, which was really my only confusion, odd that there is only one option for this, maybe I'm not looking hard enough.
It certainly looks more like a bushing to me than a balljoint, reading from another post I guess this is a radial balljoint, not that it really matters.

Just priced out the upper bushings and ball joint at $65 per side including shipping, with the whole arm assembly being just over $100, as well as some members claiming issues with wheel clearance on certain ball joints, I would honestly prefer to just change the arm and save time.

I could find very little in regards to videos and posts on the forums here regarding the LCA, although I did see one post stating you would need a hydraulic press. I've used the ball joint presses in the past with varying success, and given that these bushings are nearly 20 years old I'm expecting some resistance. Not a bad idea to get a rental and give it a go first before I pay someone to do it for me.
Thanks for your time! will hopefully get this done next weekend in time for some new tires.

 

[Theo B Roma]

Hi all, just finished up changing out all 4 calipers/brakes/pads, original calipers had nearly 240k on them and were showing some wear.
While I was in the rear I also noticed some pretty significant wear on the upper and lower control arms, I've decided I will swap out the entire UCA unit as they aren't ridiculously expensive and to keep things simple. The rear LCAs are nearly impossible to find and $400+ per side.
I'm planning on removing the LCA entirely and taking it to a shop to get new bushings pressed in, however am a bit confused on which parts to buy.
On rock auto under control arm bushing, the rear lower forward and rear lower rearward bushings are pretty obvious, the confusion comes to the bushing (balljoint?) that connects to the knuckle.
I am seeing rear lower w/ cross axis bushing - More Information for MEVOTECH MK80010
And, rear lower outer balljoint - More Information for DORMAN 531804
Not sure which is the correct part, they both look pretty similar in the pictures.
Can't find much info on here about the rear control arms in general, any info is appreciated
Thanks!

Try carparts.com, I got LCA for less than $40 each. The catch is there are two different stud sizes. Be sure to check which is yours because it costs more to return the wrong parts than they cost.

 

[shane10]

The whole project has unfortunately been giving me trouble every step of the way, but slowly making progress. I am at the point where I have everything on the rear UCA disconnected except for the frontward bushing bolt, broke a breaker bar and starting to very slightly round the head of the bolt so I'm giving it a break for now. I'm assuming the bolt is seized in the metal bushing itself, anyone ever experience this? And have any tips on removing the bolt without resorting to cutting the whole thing off?
Sprayed it down good and taking a break for tonight

 

[LMHmedchem]

The whole project has unfortunately been giving me trouble every step of the way, but slowly making progress. I am at the point where I have everything on the rear UCA disconnected except for the frontward bushing bolt, broke a breaker bar and starting to very slightly round the head of the bolt so I'm giving it a break for now. I'm assuming the bolt is seized in the metal bushing itself, anyone ever experience this? And have any tips on removing the bolt without resorting to cutting the whole thing off?
Sprayed it down good and taking a break for tonight

I never tackle anything on my truck without a good set of bolt extractor sockets. I have several sets at this point. There are allot of bolts that will not come off with anything else. I am not sure what size the frontward bushing bolt is, but I expect it is large. Most sets don't go up to sizes large enough for some of the suspension hardware.

This is the largest set I have,

Topec 5-Piece Heavy Duty Nut Bolt Remover Set ($40)

it goes up to 1". I bought it specifically to remove the lower strut bolt when the nut retainer had rusted off. At this point, I generally plan on replacing every nut and bolt that I remove, though it may be hard to find the part number in advance to know what you need to get in advance of removing it.

Hopefully the penetrating oil will solve it, not pun intended.

LMHmedchem

 

[shane10]

I never tackle anything on my truck without a good set of bolt extractor sockets. I have several sets at this point. There are allot of bolts that will not come off with anything else. I am not sure what size the frontward bushing bolt is, but I expect it is large. Most sets don't go up to sizes large enough for some of the suspension hardware.

This is the largest set I have,

Topec 5-Piece Heavy Duty Nut Bolt Remover Set ($40)

it goes up to 1". I bought it specifically to remove the lower strut bolt when the nut retainer had rusted off. At this point, I generally plan on replacing every nut and bolt that I remove, though it may be hard to find the part number in advance to know what you need to get in advance of removing it.

Hopefully the penetrating oil will solve it, not pun intended.

LMHmedchem

Thanks for the reply, not sure if a extractor socket would be of any help to be honest, it's not rounded to the point I can't still fit a socket on it, but is starting to go. The bolt head itself is facing the front of the vehicle, going through to frontward UCA bushing, and is connected at the back by a nut that locks into the frame. The bolt is 10.8 and 19mm, so you can imagine how much torque is required to start rounding the edges.
I'm hoping for the best that the penetrating oil will free things up, but am doubtful, might have to cut the whole bushing/bolt out.
I'm preparing for that route, but can not for the life of me find the correct bolt and locking nut (what is this called?) If anyone could point me in the right direction would be greatly appreciated.
EDIT - Looking at tasca parts diagrams, looks like the rear UCA is discontinued entirely, not a great sign

 

[LMHmedchem]

Thanks for the reply, not sure if a extractor socket would be of any help to be honest, it's not rounded to the point I can't still fit a socket on it, but is starting to go. The bolt head itself is facing the front of the vehicle, going through to frontward UCA bushing, and is connected at the back by a nut that locks into the frame. The bolt is 10.8 and 19mm, so you can imagine how much torque is required to start rounding the edges.
I'm hoping for the best that the penetrating oil will free things up, but am doubtful, might have to cut the whole bushing/bolt out.
I'm preparing for that route, but can not for the life of me find the correct bolt and locking nut (what is this called?) If anyone could point me in the right direction would be greatly appreciated.
EDIT - Looking at tasca parts diagrams, looks like the rear UCA is discontinued entirely, not a great sign

I don't think that 19mm is a common size. You would usually see even numbers for the larger bolts like 18mm or 20mm (probably 20mm, M20x2.5), but that is a huge bolt more than 3/4 inch in diameter. Do you mean that you are using a 19mm socket to remove it or that the thread size is 19mm? If you are using a 19mm socket, then the bolt may be a 12mm (M12x1.75) and there are allot of options for bolts in that size range.

If you have the back one out, you can take it to a hardware store and confirm the size and thread pitch. As long as you know the thread size, thread pitch, and length, you can just order a class 10.9 or class 12.9 bolt from McMaster-Carr or somewhere like that. It would probably cost less than $10. The nut could be harder if it's specialized but you can usually get by with a high quality standard nut or flange nut and some orange thread locker. The setup will be harder to tighten without the nut retainer.

LMHmedchem

 

[shane10]

I don't think that 19mm is a common size. You would usually see even numbers for the larger bolts like 18mm or 20mm (probably 20mm, M20x2.5), but that is a huge bolt more than 3/4 inch in diameter. Do you mean that you are using a 19mm socket to remove it or that the thread size is 19mm? If you are using a 19mm socket, then the bolt may be a 12mm (M12x1.75) and there are allot of options for bolts in that size range.

If you have the back one out, you can take it to a hardware store and confirm the size and thread pitch. As long as you know the thread size, thread pitch, and length, you can just order a class 10.9 or class 12.9 bolt from McMaster-Carr or somewhere like that. It would probably cost less than $10. The nut could be harder if it's specialized but you can usually get by with a high quality standard nut or flange nut and some orange thread locker. The setup will be harder to tighten without the nut retainer.

LMHmedchem

Sorry meant the socket was 19mm. The bolt is M14, that is all the information I can find on it, no thread pitch/length. The rear is held in by 2 bolts that are much smaller, and fortunately not going through any bushing.
After about a half hour of searching I was able to find the part numbers.
W707579-S426 - Upper arm to frame bolt
W707471-S436 - Flag nut
I was only able to actually bring it up on one website, and it showed discontinued. If you search the part numbers on google, only 4 results come up for the bolt, and about 30 for the flag nut. Odd that it is a ford oem part number, but it's almost as if it never existed, any insight on this?
I guess my best plan of attack at this point is use an angle grinder to cut the remaining bushing/bolt out, pick up the closest match M14 bolt and nut I can find, and hope the rest of the job goes better.
I was planning on changing all 3 bushings out on the LCA, but may just end up doing the outermost to avoid further headache, they are completely shot.
Thanks again for the help

 

[DaaQ]

Mistake I made was not using heat, I tried penetrating oil for weeks on the front.

To be clear, a propane torch is not going to cut it. You need the real deal oxy acetylene for enough heat to break those. there is going to be thread locker in there as well. Front had anyway.

Southern or northern climate vehicle?

 

[shane10]

Mistake I made was not using heat, I tried penetrating oil for weeks on the front.

To be clear, a propane torch is not going to cut it. You need the real deal oxy acetylene for enough heat to break those. there is going to be thread locker in there as well. Front had anyway.

Southern or northern climate vehicle?

Propane is all I have, tried heating it multiple times, no dice. Can't get it to do anything other than break sockets. Cutting seems to be the only option, now I'm not sure if there's is adequate room for the angle grinder to get a full and clean cut. Northern heavily salted climate for most of it's life surely doesn't help things.
Would rather rebuild my engine again than continue with this job
I rebuilt the full front suspension about 5 years ago while I was still only learning how to turn a wrench, very minimal issues on any of those parts.

 

[LMHmedchem]

Propane is all I have, tried heating it multiple times, no dice.

One thing you can try is to heat cycle the nut at about 30 seconds a few times. Just heat with a torch for 30 seconds and then let it cool. After a few cycles, heat for about 10 seconds and spray the nut with WD40. The idea is that the rapid cooling of the hot metal will draw the lubricant into any small pores and down into the threads. This has actually worked from me a few times and I think is worth a try.

If you can get it back together enough to drive it, you could take it to a local shop and see if they can get it loose with a more powerful torch. I would just call around and see if you can find someone who is willing to help. Along with a better heat source, it's also easier to get good leverage with the truck up on a lift. Powerful air tools don't hurt either. It shouldn't cost very much at all just to have then break the bolt loose. It's good to have a mechanic around who is willing to help when you get into something that is just difficult in the driveway.

If you do have to cut it, think about it and make sure you can cut it in a place that will free the arm. You can cut off the end and still have the bolt frozen in the bushing, now with no way to get any leverage on it to get it out. You may have to cut it in more than one place, so make sure you have access where you need it before you wade in.

LMHmedchem

 

[DaaQ]

Propane is all I have, tried heating it multiple times, no dice. Can't get it to do anything other than break sockets. Cutting seems to be the only option, now I'm not sure if there's is adequate room for the angle grinder to get a full and clean cut. Northern heavily salted climate for most of it's life surely doesn't help things.
Would rather rebuild my engine again than continue with this job
I rebuilt the full front suspension about 5 years ago while I was still only learning how to turn a wrench, very minimal issues on any of those parts.

Yea mine was from norther salt too, I only got one of the front lower control arm bushings out. Alot of hammering. I was able to break the nut loose but the bolt would not come out of the bushing.
The above advice sounds good, or melt the entire bushing out. I bought the rears, but just was defeated after the front drivers side.

 

[shane10]

Yea mine was from norther salt too, I only got one of the front lower control arm bushings out. Alot of hammering. I was able to break the nut loose but the bolt would not come out of the bushing.
The above advice sounds good, or melt the entire bushing out. I bought the rears, but just was defeated after the front drivers side.

The nut on the rear is flagged and locks into the frame, so not really possible to do anything without removing the bolt entirely. I feel you, I was thinking this would be a quick 4 bolt and replace job, turning into an absolute nightmare.

 

[shane10]

One thing you can try is to heat cycle the nut at about 30 seconds a few times. Just heat with a torch for 30 seconds and then let it cool. After a few cycles, heat for about 10 seconds and spray the nut with WD40. The idea is that the rapid cooling of the hot metal will draw the lubricant into any small pores and down into the threads. This has actually worked from me a few times and I think is worth a try.

If you can get it back together enough to drive it, you could take it to a local shop and see if they can get it loose with a more powerful torch. I would just call around and see if you can find someone who is willing to help. Along with a better heat source, it's also easier to get good leverage with the truck up on a lift. Powerful air tools don't hurt either. It shouldn't cost very much at all just to have then break the bolt loose. It's good to have a mechanic around who is willing to help when you get into something that is just difficult in the driveway.

If you do have to cut it, think about it and make sure you can cut it in a place that will free the arm. You can cut off the end and still have the bolt frozen in the bushing, now with no way to get any leverage on it to get it out. You may have to cut it in more than one place, so make sure you have access where you need it before you wade in.

LMHmedchem

I have heat cycle/sprayed it about a dozen times to no avail. I think the issue is not the threads, but the smooth portion of the bolt is completely seized to the inner metal bushing. The only way a torch could heat the bushing is to melt all the rubber out, and even then I'm still doubtful it would work. After relentless research it seems the only way to free a seized bushing bolt is to either back the nut off (impossible as the nut is flagged and stuck into the frame) and pound the bolt through. Or cut it out. I may be wrong but I believe the bolt and bushing are now nearly permanently bonded, and nearly impossible to break free.
If it were to be cut off, it would have to be done on both ends of the bushing/bolt, on the inner portion of the frame mount. Lots a video showing the process. My angle grinder will in fact not reach, I've read a sawzall with diablo blades is the next best bet, although a bit slower than a cutting wheel, but also safer.
A big concern is still the upper bolt/flag nut that is discontinued. I noticed on the lower control arm to knuckle bolt, about 2 inches of the bolt closest to the head is flanged out to create a nearly perfect seal with the inner metal bushing sleeve. I am wondering if it's the same story up top, and a simple straight M14 bolt will create a gap issue with the bolt and metal portion of bushing.

I only know of one mechanic I'd trust enough to bring the truck to, I'll call him in the morning and see what he has to say, assuming I can get it together enough to drive it there. From my research it looks like he will most likely have to cut it out as well, and be in the same predicament of finding the proper bolts to put it back together.
Thanks again for the input, making me feel a little less crazy about dealing with this on my own

 

[mountaineer2004]

I had my mechanic replace the front control arms recently. He said that it was a bear of a job. Good luck!

 

[shane10]

I had my mechanic replace the front control arms recently. He said that it was a bear of a job. Good luck!

Fronts were a piece of cake for me, even with the nearly zero knowledge I had back then, rears not so much...
I guess I can justify what this might cost at a shop with the fact that I haven't had to go to one in over 5 years

 

[shane10]

Just an update, I called the mechanic who taught me how to wrench, pretty much confirmed over the phone the bolt is seized and will have to be cut out. The upper control arm bolt and flag nut I need are completely obsolete, apparently only 1 dealer has a single bolt left in the country.
I went ahead and ordered a few different similar bolts and nuts from McMaster Carr (thanks for the recommendation, amazing site) and will bring the truck in Wednesday and see what works best. Hopefully this headache will be over soon.
Thanks again for all the input and support!

Looking at the Ford parts diagram again now, it seems that most of the hardware for the rear knuckle is now obsolete, anyone attempting repairs in the future, come prepared!

 

[LMHmedchem]

Looking at the listings on RockAuto, it seems as if the Moog and ACDelco Professional rear UCA units come with hardware.

ACDELCO 45D1221 Professional Rear Left Upper Control Arm w/ Ball Joint ($103.79)
MOOG RK620668 Rear Left Upper Control Arm w/ Ball Joint ($112.99)

These look like they include the large bolt that you are trying to get out, along with all of the nuts. You said that you were going to replace the UCA entirely, so maybe all you need to do is get the old one out and you will have everything you need.

I don't know, maybe the bolt pictured with the square head is the one that goes through the arbor that receives the ball joint bolt.

LMHmedchem

 

[shane10]

Looking at the listings on RockAuto, it seems as if the Moog and ACDelco Professional rear UCA units come with hardware.

ACDELCO 45D1221 Professional Rear Left Upper Control Arm w/ Ball Joint ($103.79)
MOOG RK620668 Rear Left Upper Control Arm w/ Ball Joint ($112.99)

These look like they include the large bolt that you are trying to get out, along with all of the nuts. You said that you were going to replace the UCA entirely, so maybe all you need to do is get the old one out and you will have everything you need.

I don't know, maybe the bolt pictured with the square head is the one that goes through the arbor that receives the ball joint bolt.

LMHmedchem

They come with the 2 bolts/flag nuts for the rear bushing mount, the square head bolt and nut lock the balljoint stud into the knuckle. It also came with a single large standard nut but I can't figure out what it's for? Maybe I am missing hardware but I didn't see a large bolt in any pictures either.
The large bolt that seems to be seized is M14 and about 90-100mm long. I ordered both 90 and 100mm M14 10.8 bolts and nylock nuts to replace the flag nut, and will see which one fits best. I dropped the truck off for the first time in about 5-6 years at the shop this morning. I've done a lot of work myself but some things are best done for professionals, for me, this is one of them. I'm also having him replace the rear lower knuckle bushing, it's pretty shot.

I'll ask him if there were any special procedures he had to take in case I can help anyone with this nightmare of a job in the future.
Thanks again for all the help