RFR2212-V8 Soap Opera Swap

[RFR2212]

I knew Al would love these! Here's the link to my old thread but oh, about half the project has changed...
Dead Link Removed

C4 out of a 77 Bronco 164 tooth flywheel. To get the correct flex plate (164 tooth 50oz balencer) I went to Performance Automatics Dead Link Removed
Excellent service at a great price. Got a fully rebuilt C4 for 300 bucks.
Still gonna mate to my dana 20

And then I'm gonna be running a Q-jet carb! OOH! CARB! Need the truck running now, and with all this, no electronics... Saving that for later, I need the truck to move on it's own.

Here's the Carb

 

[RFR2212]

ignition controls

 

[RFR2212]

the tach

 

[RFR2212]

fuel pump

 

[RFR2212]

no pics of the trans yet, but over thanksgiving break, i should get some... and the wires are cleaned up... I'm going to do everything basic. I switch on the fuel and ignition. I've got a push button starter. I somehow in all this project got to the point of getting somethin jammed and now i can't get the keys out... so i just roll em forward, and then that will work all my lights, heater radio etc...

Rigged, sorta, but it's all done safe. It's a very simple setup, and it'll be fine for me for wheelin.
Pete

 

[SaleenEXP]

thats the 331 right? Damn, talk about some torque, even with your lift and everything it'll haul pretty good.

 

[asp84]

Looks ancient to me. What is that funny looking metal thing on the middle of the lower intake? Is that what you call a carb.?

RFR2212........... didn't you start out with a good Looking EFI engine? WHat happened. From the looks of that engine compartment, everything went to SH*T. (j/k)

EFI is extremely simple to hook up. All it needs is a power wire, a ground wire, one wire for your fuel pump, a wire from your VSS, and BAM..... you got a running EFI motor. EEC-IV is stone age electronics. Heck, that MSD box had more wires to hook up then the EEC-IV system.

EFI provides precise tuning, idle, and offroad performance.

anyway, my advice, Sell your CARB equipment, swap on your EFI intake, and wire this thing up. Do it right first. I have learned that on my conversion.

Good Luck,
Al

 

[RFR2212]

Originally posted by SaleenEXP
thats the 331 right? Damn, talk about some torque, even with your lift and everything it'll haul pretty good.

Nope... ended up as a 306-- 302 bored .030 over er whateverwhoseit. Got a small bore job on it, and it should still move nicely
Pete

 

[asp84]

what a wuss Pete........ don't you have any comments?

I said a lot in my previous statement.

You understand you created ten times more work by switching over to carb. ohh wait, you already said that.

""""""""SOAP OPERA V8 CONV""""""""""""

 

[RFR2212]

I believe i'm using technology close to the "Flinstones Era" Or close to there! Yabba dabba doooo!

Oknuts truck has done well....

 

[CoryL]

Less than 3 months after finishing that project you will be converting it to FI.

:flipoff:

Looks good!

 

[Texan01]

Be sure that the fuel pump is regulated to about 5-6 PSI so you don't wind up with a flooded engine from the pump blowing the needle off the seat.

Noticed you got the Q-jet mounted backwards, any particular reason for it?


EFI is a bit more than hooking up one wire, try plumbing in the correct sensors, wiring the sensors in, (CTS, VSS, MAP/MAF, injectors) wiring the computer in place, and then getting it all to work correctly the first time around.

A carb setup all you need is power to the distributor for electonic ignition and away you go. I can see his logic for running a carb for the time being. He needs it to run now and not later and a Q-jet is much more forgiving to tune than an EFI system. the MSD box is much better than the Ford TFI for reliability.

Keep us posted!

 

[asp84]

Originally posted by CoryL
Less than 3 months after finishing that project you will be converting it to FI.

:flipoff:

Looks good!

Exactly, a lot of work for nothing.

-> TEXAN01: Unfortunately you haven't been following the project very well. RFR2212 already had all the plumbing and sensors hooked up for the engine to run EFI. He switched over to carb becuase he couldn't find a 12 Volt Power source. to power up the computer.

If you can run A carb, you can run a EFI system. an EFI system doesn't have much more wires than a Carb.

Lets do a little comparison for all you assumption makers.

Carb:
-Positive Fuel pump wire
-Switched Power wire for Coil
-Power for MSD
-Wire for Electric Choke.
-Ground wires

EFI:
-Positive wire for Computer
-Positive wire for Fuel Pump
-VSS wire
-Ground wires.

----------------
This is all it takes to get an EEC-IV computer to work.
From then on you can hook up the one positive wire for VSS. am I oversimplifyign it? NOPE.
RFR2212 said he just wanted to get it running? All you need to do is hook up the power, ground, and fuel pump to the EEC-IV and it will operate by itself.
and whoever said hooking up the sensors is a big deal.... The sensors are all self contained within the wire harness. Any kindergarden student can plug a connector in to a sensor. SNAP....CLick.... it's plugged in. There is no wiring in of Sensors. The harness already has the sensors attached. All you do is tuck them to the side or plug em in. Very Very Simple.


From:
-Someone who doesn't know anything about EEC-IV wiring,
Al

 

[RFR2212]

hmm well lets see...

Cory-Thanks for the words of encouragement
-As for 3mo from now, I'll be in school still, so no way!
Texan-- Thanks, someone is finally agreeing with me. As for the Q-jet... had to modify the mounting plate. and it worked this way when i dropped it on, and had no issues, so i left it. I also get the fuel line on the driver side as ya see. Plus, i shouldn't have any issues with it this way that i can see.

Asp-- This thread offically gets a sub thread topic, which is your rant on how electronics should be superior. :rollseyes: As for all the simple power this that and the other... Not so easy, as it was working computer worked, fuel pump worked and well guess what? Somewhere in it all, i couldn't get spark. Coil had power, but i believe it's that stupid TFI plug on the distrobutor. I think there were issues with the now gone clutch pedal and saftey cutout neutral crap switch. either way, at one point that wire got either a ground or 12v and got no difference.
As for carb--

12v to fuel pump
12v to MSD box
fuel line to carb and that's got it all

Pete

 

[Brian1]

Originally posted by RFR2212
hmm well lets see...

As for the Q-jet... had to modify the mounting plate. and it worked this way when i dropped it on, and had no issues, so i left it. I also get the fuel line on the driver side as ya see. Plus, i shouldn't have any issues with it this way that i can see.

The carb will run better on hill climbs when it is mounted backwards. Alot of crawlers use this trick if they are running a q-jet.

 

[Robb]

Carbs Rule, EFI Sux!

They stink, there sloppy, they need rebuildding often.........................but when those butterflies fly open and you can hear the air rush in..............AHHHHHHHH!

RFR2212, it's YOUR truck and YOUR work in it, be proud and don't worry about the doubters! Looks great!

Robb

 

[asp84]

Originally posted by morrisey0


They (Carbs) stink, there sloppy, they need rebuildding often.........................
Robb

Robb (Morrisey) You couldn't of said it better.

Carbs Suck! EFI Rules.
ohh......... By the way Pete: When you go up a hill you don't have to turn the EFI intake around backwards....lol.

I thought you were building an offroad rig here?

 

[Texan01]

Of course Carbs suck, the engine sucks air through them

If it were me, I'd build an offroad rig as simple as possible. and that would be a carb, and an MSD or HEI ignition and no computer.

Think of it this way, if you were wheeling miles from the nearest road and Murphy's law kicks in. a Carb can be rebuilt in the field, a computer, well let's just say you'll be walking or riding in someone else's truck.

Yes carbs suck at extreme angles, when the jets get uncovered. They aren't as precise at varying throttle positions,
Yes Carbs also suck if the choke isn't working right, I know this, my friends 79 El Camino has a 383 that's a PITA to keep running when it's cold. Matter of fact the 8-track radio is the smartest thing in the car.

He's following the K.I.S.S principal.

My ole' 76 Chevelle had a Rochester 2-jet (2bbl) carb on it and I think the car went through 4 rebuilds in it's 24 year life, since my parents bought it new and I was born about 4 months later, I know the history of it. I had no problems with it, I rebuilt it once just for the hell of it, to learn how, started right up and ran fine till I got rid of the car.

Dad's 87 Dakota has a Holley 2bbl carb on it, and the only problem with it is the casting itself is worn out for the accelerator pump. it was rebuilt at 150,000 miles. That was the first for it to be worked on as it still had the plugs over the idle mixture screws. even now at 200,000 miles it still works as well as it can. But we do have a TBI setup to throw in it when the carb needs to be overhauled again (doubtful since he is selling it)

Now the electronic carbs such as the one in the Dakota and the electronic Q-jets are a nightmare. they flow very well but don't work worth a flip if the computer takes a dump.

Each has their advantages and disadvantages. It's all a matter of personal preference.

Sorry for the long post, I get started and don't know when to stop.

 

[asp84]

Computers don't tend to crap out spontaneously. Just carry a spare computer with you if you are so worried. No rebuilding involved........ Plug 'N Play.

Good Luck,
Al

 

[CoryL]

If you really want to read a good discussion about carbs vs. FI...

Go to Pirate4x4.com and search. There are many good threads about the pros and cons of each.